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#2705983 Ye Olde Ohsi's Thread

Posted ohsi on Sep 26 2012 - 17:49

-Note: since the topic has reached +600 positive votes, I will be updating it with new info and opinions, both about game updates and other WoT related stuff. Oldest, non-original content will be placed in spoilers at the bottom. Latest updates will be on top and will be shorter.
UPDATE, 09-13-2013:
-Customer service still being poor. The League (Major, Minor and Open) finished 2 weeks ago and we still don't have our gold prizes.
-8.8 is delayed 1 week, compared to RU and EU.
-There are no Equipment discounts since MONTHS, and that's not an accident, that's obviously intended.
-More and more posts are deleted, edited, put back, etc., for "discussing moderators sanctions" (a new, abusive and generic form of sanction, popular among Mods these days, because of course: all you say can be read as such, even this whole thread right now), and now people can experience in their own skin what I have been saying during 2 years.
-Meanwhile, trolls keep trolling as always; with negative reputation (nobody knows why they put it back), with troll posts/comments, etc. Seems like moderators are here to "moderate" (cough*erase*cough) comments made towards the game, instead of helping the community. Note that I'm not discussing any specific moderator's action, however I still fear that this post will be some day edited, deleted, or whatever, since such is the fear that random RO sanctions induce to people. Like a "forum terror", absurd policy.
1 step forward, 2 steps back. And I'm not the only one. Here is one of the current most downvoted threads in this forum: http://forum.worldof...world-of-tanks/
Sad but true. I hope they can read this information and take proper actions, such as... listening to the community.
Original Post (09-26-2012):
First off, I've supported this game. I was on WG's side in almost every discussion here, because I tend to agree with their points of view. I earned the rage of many German armor fans because of that. I don't believe in Russian bias, nor any bias; I don't believe in hidden MM chances, in hidden armor stats. Contrary to the majority of players, I believe that most tanks (90%? I don't know) were balanced, you just needed to adapt to their playstyle. I like the Lee and the AMX 40, and I enjoyed the T1HT and M6 even when they faced KVs with 107 at tier 5.
I'm not a whiner, you can go through my posts to check that out. And I've never made rage posts against WG or the Devs. Ever.
I bought gold many times: so I'm talking from the perspective of someone who is (or was) willing to support this company with real money.
But what WG has done recently with the new Russian TD line, is beyond possible defense. Guys, you just screwed this up badly.
And this is not exclusive for the Russian TD line. I know you guys want money. I know you are decreasing the earning potential of many non-premium tanks (recent Pz IV nerf is a good example of this, because now it will deal less damage for sure = less credits *... but also old money-makers, like the KVs, and many other tier 5s and 6s). This is an undeniable tendency. And in my opinion, we shouldn't support this kind of behaviour from a company that claims to run a "freemium" game. A company who has earned millions of dollars already with this extremely succesful "freemium" style of business.
*(Update: when I made this topic, gold rounds were only available for gold. Now, with gold rounds for credits, in fact the Pz IV and the M4 have unbalanced the game even more).
Nothing wrong with earning thousands of billions of dollars: good for you! Cheers!
But... stop cheating on the community. Stop giving us candy just to take it away a month later. Or a week later. We are not fools, or at least, many of us are not.
Here I should repeat that I've already bought gold, I've already spent many hours in the game. Oh and this is not an "I quit" kind of post, because hey, I still enjoy it! I will keep playing a lot, don't worry. I already have a tier 8 premium tank, and I'm currently running premium account. But I'm starting to think in not spending more gold in this. What for?
Every new tank line from a new country will be OP (France, probably the Brits soon). Why? To attract that population (Frenchs, British) to the game, *but also to throw new stuff to people who have many tanks in their garages, so they don't get bored. But then, after some months, and with every patch, they will nerf that line to regular parameters. It's a bait and switch system.
Check out old tech trees. Germany and Russia mostly. Nothing new. Nothing that anyone with a bit of brain could claim to be "OP". I don't want OP tanks, but I'm just saying hey, did you forget about those countries? Are you done with them? The last Russian heavy line was the worst bad taste joke you could think about. Guess why you don't see many KV-4 or ST-1.
But the new Russian TD line is another joke. I will quote Wot Armory review because I agree in every single word with them, on this post:
Basically, the purpose of these tier 7 and 8 TDs is to be useless, so you spend gold to grind the nice SU-122-54 and the clearly OP Object 263.
Say hi to the new money sinkers.
WG do you really think that we don't know that? Oh, I see. You don't care. Well I do care. And peacefully and with respect, (while not breaking any rule) I will discuss this in the forums. I think you are wrong. Who I am? Yes, just a player. But a customer too. And I deserve respect.
Guys, players with a bit of brain: don't grind this line. We can't take whatever they give to us just because it's "shiny and new". This is a slap in our faces.
As I said before: I'll keep playing the game, I like tanks, etc. But this is too much. Please WG, stop. Find new ways to earn money, with parallel grinds, with extra features, with new tank versions, all that is ok.
Please. Show me that I'm wrong. Stop crippling the earning potential of non-premium tanks; stop making half-tech-tree tanks useless, to make us free-xp them up to the top tanks.
PS: This post is not intended to cause unrest nor offend any WG nor WGA staff member. Even when some of us may be upset because of this, please try to remain civilized and on topic.
Old updates:


Posted General_von_Nuben on Jan 07 2014 - 21:28

Since 2011, I have had a relationship with World of Tanks.  Like few other games in my long gaming career (which dates back to the 1980s), I have poured my heart, energy and even money into this one.  I have had many, many good times, and many, many bad times ensconced in this digital world.   WoT has given me great pleasure and great frustration.  Until recently, I have felt it has been worth continuing the relationship because the good generally outweighed the bad. 


Now, in a new year, I have taken a good hard look at WoT and must conclude that the bad outweighs the good.  And when that happens--as with any relationship--it's time to consider whether it's smart to continue it.


I cannot commit to abandoning WoT.  It has been a part of my life for so long that it's inconceivable to turn my back on it completely.  But I can say that it is time for me to downgrade our relationship status from "lovers" to "friends," at best.


I do this because I simply do not feel good playing the game anymore.  There are too many issues, both new and old, that drain my enjoyment and make playing the game seem more a chore than a joy.  To be fair, I have played many other games in my life for long periods, and I have moved beyond them, too.  But WoT strives to keep me hooked over the long haul through constant updates and new content.  Despite this, though, the game has failed to correct longstanding problems, and has actually created new ones through its patch process.


My morale and faith in WoT have fallen for specific reasons.  I never make a decision to part from a game I've played for years without a well-grounded rationale, and I've been pondering that rationale for quite some time.  I have identified ten major flaws that have soured my enthusiasm for WoT, and for my own mental clarity--and for those interested--I will present them here.


1. The Vision System: Noobs recoil from WoT's elaborate (and counterintuitive) vision system with the simplistic complaint: "I got invisitanked, no fair!"  We veterans understand that the vision system is a tool to be exploited, not to complain about.  For better or worse, WoT attempts to simulate real-world battlefield vision disparities through its "view range/camo value/draw distance" matrix, which even seasoned players have trouble fully grasping.  Those who scout well virtually guarantee a win for their team, since they provide their comrades (and arty) the luxury of shooting at fully-silhouetted red targets without fear of return fire.  In higher-tier games, where focused fire from TDs and arty can vaporize any tank in an instant, vision control determines the outcome almost every time. 


Yet vision control is never a given in most randoms; either your team has a competent scout or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, you are blind and you are destroyed without ever seeing your foe, even if he's just 100 meters away.  If it does, you can pulverize your hapless opponents without a scratch.  But you either have a good scout or you don't.  Your skill does not change what teammates the matchmaker provides.


I have several complaints about the vision system. First, it does not give its gifts equally.  Either your team has a good scout or it doesn't.  That fact is not determined by skill.  Second, camo and vehicle height are overly critical stats that confer their blessings on only a few tech branches.  Camo values determine which tanks can abuse the vision system and which tanks get abused by it.  It makes scouts and low-height TDs the rulers of the high-tier game, while rendering many heavy tanks and no-camo-TDs almost irrelevant.


In sum, vision control is more important than almost any other game mechanic.  And unless you're a scout or medium, you can rarely provide it for your team.  In WoT, you often can only see what others see (a strange sensory dilemma, especially when you can magically see things through thick brush, as long as someone else 300 meters away sees it), and if others don't do your seeing, you see nothing. 


When I have spotting, I usually win.  When I don't, I usually lose.  I've gotten tired of betting my enjoyment on whether someone on my team understands how important spotting is.


2. The Maps: I sometimes wonder who tests WoT's maps before they are released.  In almost every case, they suffer from systemic problems that grant great advantages to one side (like the north side of Highway), or can be exploited by one side making the right move at the beginning of the game (like a competent scout lighting the base on Malinovka).  WG has revived horrible maps like Komarin (a mutual campfest where nothing can happen unless someone understands the vision system) and allowed perennially detested maps like Malinovka and El Halluf to remain in the game.  It has removed maps like Province and Dragon Ridge, as if admitting that they were broken.  And it has rushed out new maps like Severogorsk and Sacred Valley (again, maps that only can work when there are competent scouts), as well as Hidden Village (a horrible one-lane slugfest with a no-man's-land everywhere but the lane). (This list is not meant to be exhaustive...)


WG seems determined to make maps that force players to meet at specified zones of contention and hammer it out at pointblank range.  It has made a few key rocks, huts and bushes the subject of all the fighting, and allowed artillery to play a significant role because everyone basically knows where the contention will be. 


This has gotten very old.  There are only a couple maps I really like, and far too many that make me groan when I see them on the loading screen.  Too many depend on advanced vision system knowledge, and you can never count on your teammates having that knowledge in randoms.


3. The Matchmaker: Everyone complains about the MM.  WG made some progress many patches ago when it generally guaranteed that many tank types would only face enemies two tiers above them.  This was certainly an improvement over the days when VK 36.01s could fight Tier 10s, but as time (and power creep) have marched on, even a two-tier spread is excessive.  It's no fun playing a stock Caernarvon with a 171 pen/150 damage gun against Tier 10 TDs.  In short, WoT has introduced so many powerful new tanks (at such dramatically higher capabilities with each successive tier), that it is a tall order to fight enemies two tiers above you in many cases.


My first Tier 9 heavy was the E-75.  Even with my nooby skills back in 2011, I managed a 60% win rate with it.  How was this possible?  It had everything to do with the matchmaker in the old days.  The only Tier 10s were the E-100, Maus, T30 and IS-7.  No one fired gold rounds (effectively trolling the E-100).  There were no autoloaders.  You even faced M4 Shermans, and maybe one or two other Tier 9s.  It was easier to win under those circumstances.  Now at Tier 9, you face all manner of overpowered Tier 10 TDs, mediums and heavies--all slinging gold--that can vaporize you in an instant.


My major complaint about the "spread" element of the matchmaker is that it is disheartening to face the current rogue's gallery of OP Tier 10 tanks with a Tier 8.  Obviously, there are several lower tier tanks that hold up well in higher tier fights (the T29 at Tier 7 and the IS-3 at Tier 8 come to mind).  But for most tanks, being the low man on the totem pole is not a recipe for fun.  Generally, you're going to have to either be lucky enough to have a good team or carry impossibly hard.  If it's the latter, your heart will beat fast and your game will be more an ordeal than a pleasant way to pass the time.


Matchmaking problems do not end with spread issues.  In recent times, there have been more and more lopsided matchups, with one side getting far more higher tier tanks than the other side.  Because of the massively better capabilities of each higher tier, this severely impacts the shortchanged team's chances to win.  We've all been on the team that has 4 less Tier 10s than the enemy team, and we all know how it will turn out.  True, there's always the chance that the other team will squander their advantage through incompetence.  But that's not a safe bet; in most cases, the team with more higher-tier tanks will win.  It's like playing golf against someone with a massive handicap.


As mentioned, everyone intuitively knows that these are serious issues.  Yet patch after patch, WG does nothing about them.  In the New Year, I have had enough of it.  I am tired of being the low man on the totem pole, and I'm tired of being matched up against teams with substantial Tier advantages.  It is not fair and skill can only take you so far in countering it.


Afterthought on MM: One reason premium tanks with preferred matchmaking are so popular is that they reduce the amount by which matchmaker can screw them.  It bears note that one of the winningest tanks in the whole game is the Pz B2, which is always top tier.  It never has to fight tanks with vastly superior combat characteristics, and thus can win much more consistently.  Tier spread makes all the difference.  And the Pz B2's record proves why.


It's almost a perverse admission by WG about how bad the matchmaker is that a premium tank's selling point is: "You won't be the low man on the totem pole as often!"


4. RNG : Very few things induce rage more than the +/- 25% spread assigned to every single shot with regard to accuracy, penetration and damage.  It is not enough that you let the aiming circle fully close and take your time to make a shot: RNG might decide it's time for your shot to hit the dirt, not the weakspot.  Or RNG might decide that you can't have that kill shot by making you miss, roll low or bounce an impossible bounce.


Apparently, one of WG's objectives in developing WoT was to create "uncertainty of outcome" in every game.  Well, if that was an objective, they've achieved it beyond anyone's wildest dreams.  You never quite know whether your shots will go where you aim them, whether your 420 pen HEAT shell will actually go through or your last shot will do enough damage to polish off that pesky scout.  By the same token, sometimes a completely unaimed shot will go dead center, or an arty shot will miraculously land behind a rock it shouldn't have been able to hit. 


These RNG vagaries often determine games.  WG seems to think these "uncertain results" should be celebrated, even making a video about them every month with--appropriately--a slot machine icon.  But when you get down to it, how much does skill really have to do with these results?  RNG implies that you need some luck to do well, just as you need luck to hit three 7s on a slot machine.  All the skill in the world--and all the best habits, like fully aiming--don't make a difference when RNG decides your shot will fail for one reason or another.


For me, RNG has been a major reason why I've downgraded my relationship with WoT.  I am simply unwilling to peg my enjoyment on whether I roll high or whether my shots go where I aim them.  I even ran a study last month where my data showed I rolled low 16% more often than average or high. 


I do not like the "uncertainty of outcome" that RNG has created, and I do not like the role luck plays in determining those outcomes.  If I wanted to play a luck-based game, I'd go to the casino.


5.  The Lack of Correlation between Merit and Outcome: WoT's XP reward system is severely flawed because it pegs a 50% bonus on victory.  Ostensibly, this provides an incentive to win, but as any WoT player can tell you, your own efforts often have no impact on whether your team wins.  That is not to say that an individual player with great skill cannot turn a losing game into a win.  But it is to say that in most cases your team has no chance to win and your efforts against that inevitable conclusion will not be rewarded.


I like to think I have decent stats.  I'm not a super-pro, but I almost always place in the Top 3 XP earners of my team, win or lose.  When they were running the mission that gave 0.2% more crew XP to the Top 3 XP earners on a team, I earned that distinction 90% of the time over 500 games.  I almost always pull my weight and more. 


But in my losing games, I rarely had much to show for it.  In the old days, you didn't even get a bonus for achieving battle hero status on a loss.  WG clearly improved the game when they allowed that (ie "Courageous Resistance"), but even that does not fully address the issue.  Sometimes getting Sniper or Top Gun on a loss isn't possible, yet you vastly outperform both your own team and the enemy team.  And you get nothing to show for that in the XP column. 


I think this system discourages merit and places excessive value on the team winning, which is all too often beyond your control (especially in solopubs).  I also think there's something Soviet about it, namely in the way it punishes the individual but rewards the herd.  No matter what other think of it, though, I'm tired of working hard in losing matches without receiving a suitable reward for my efforts.


6. Power Creep: I've already mentioned power creep with regard to matchmaking.  It deserves fuller explanation.


WG's quest to constantly introduce new content has led to a power crisis in WoT.  It started in 7.5 with the introduction of Tier 10 TDs and mediums.  Since then, every new patch has brought more and more powerful tanks and TDs--all with progressively higher penetration, damage, camo, speed and view range.  Every time, the older tanks sank further into irrelevance.  The stats that used to make the older tanks relevant could no longer compete at the higher stat plateau.  From time to time, WG would "rebalance" old tanks to keep them competitive with the new ones.  But that was (and is) an imperfect system that leaves many tanks without any practical use.


Worse, power creep provides WG an infallible way to milk customers for money.  New tanks are always the most powerful, which leads to a rush to buy them (through gold purchases for free XP or gold rounds to make grinds easier).  We all know the cycle, and the inevitable nerfs that befall once-chic new tanks.  It is a cynical and dishonest business model that wastes people's time and dashes their hopes.


Power creep also manifested itself when WG made premium ammo available for credits.  Personally, I am ambivalent about this development.  On the one hand, gold rounds are essential for tanks shafted by the broken MM to have a chance when they are bottom tier.  On the other hand, when everyone slings gold, armor takes a back seat to firepower and mobility in the Holy Trinity of tank balance.  All in all, gold rounds for credits crossed a Rubicon that WG cannot reverse.  Combined with the newer OP tanks that emerge every patch, they have made higher tier play a disheartening proposition: Everyone can pen/kill you in the blink of an eye, often without even really aiming.  And once again, the team with superior vision control in a game allows their team to focus this ever-increasing, devastating firepower on the enemy without fear of collateral damage.


7. Artillery: Mentioning arty in the forums often leads to disputes.  My purpose here, however, to outline my subjective reasons for distancing myself from what WoT has become, and artillery is part of that. 


Very few gameplay aspects provoke as much emotional outpouring as artillery.  I, for one, am a very amiable guy.  Yet I can turn into a homicidal maniac when arty kills me, especially after gallantly fighting off half a dozen tanks in a choke point, breaking through and getting nuked the minute I start advancing. 


In my early days playing WoT, arty was much more powerful than it is now: It aimed faster, it fired faster, it was more accurate and it could easily defend itself with snap shots in close combat.  Originally billed as a way to prevent "tactical stagnation" (ie, camping) in games, arty came to dominate the game, leading to far more camping than ever before.  After all, moving from hard cover would lead to instant arty death. And back then, there were often 5 or more high tier arty on each team.  If you think the TDs are bad now, you should have seen arty at its wretched apex.  I nearly left the game because of it.


Patch 8.6 ostensibly crippled arty's effectiveness with numerous nerfs.  In the aftermath, fewer people played arty and I recall having more fun than ever before in all-tank/TD battles.  Sure, once in a while you would still get derped by the occasional lucky arty shell.  But because it happened so much more infrequently, I could handle it.


But as the patches progressed from 8.6, arty made a slow recovery.  Sure, it was nothing as devastating as it was pre-8.6, but it once again took a significant place on the battlefield.  It became rarer to see arty-free games.  And because WG's map design encourages slugfests at well-known chokepoints, arty had a bigger role to play.  As you stood there slugging in the pre-arranged spots, arty had the time to aim in and do damage.


I have never been tolerant with arty, and now that I'm seeing it again in ever-greater numbers, I am not enthused.  I often have to lead horrible random teams in my heavy tanks.  When I do, it's my head on the chopping block for arty.  I often am the one with the cajones to push a flank, and that puts me right in the clickers' aiming circle. 


Arty kills me very often, and it's not because I don't know where the "arty safe" places are on a map.  You can't win a game sitting in hard arty cover the whole time, and that's why I take arty hits.  I get to hull down positions and engage as necessary.  Normally it's only arty that has a chance to hurt me, and they do.


More often than not, my tactics are successful.  I die to arty, but we break through the enemy team and win.  But that doesn't stop me from resenting arty.  I often think about how I risked my neck fighting and struggling on the front line, trying to make something happen for my team, while they sat 1000m away and clicked on me as I writhed around in an effort to throw off their aim (fighting around the northern hill on Westfield comes to mind).


I have always hated it, and I still do.  Nothing upsets me more.  And combined with the other ills in WoT, I have zero patience for arty anymore.  I've had it!  Very few things spoil my mood--and enthusiasm for this game--more than getting wrecked by a lucky arty shot despite valiantly leading a team.


It adds insult to injury to know that WG purposely included arty in the game to "give weak players the chance to kill the strongest player."  Yet another Soviet, anti-individualist principle at work and I hate it. 


Sorry 46%er arties... you won't be clicking me again for a while.


8.  Penetration Mechanics: For better or worse, WoT has enshrined armor angle--not thickness-- as the key element of protection against incoming shells.  If a shot hits a tank at 70 degrees or more after normalization, it will bounce, no matter how much penetration force it has on paper.  Greater armor angles, in turn, grant greater effective armor ratings, so the more sloped a target, the higher a penetration roll you need to get through it.  Think of the Foch: The whole front is 180mm at nearly 60 degrees: 304mm effective armor.  You need a high pen roll even with gold, and that's assuming you don't autobounce.


Combined with RNG accuracy problems, the primacy of armor angles in WoT leads to disheartening bounces against targets that simply shouldn't be bouncing anything as a matter of common sense.  It also leads to certain Soviet tanks with rounded turrets getting insane bouncing capacities, especially while they are moving.


Tracks and spaced armor are another issue.  Who knew that a little band of steel outside the tank's hull could stop a 183mm HESH shell from penetrating?  What a concept!  Or that a little bitty track on a Bat Chat could stop a 170mm HEAT shell from going through? I find it galling that WG actually raised the price on HEAT shells while making them dramatically less effective against anything with a track, rounded angle or "GSSA" (Glorious Soviet Spaced Armor).  How many times has an IS-6, IS-3 or Object 704 trolled you when you hit their side?  Case closed.


Penetration issues must be considered in light of RNG accuracy.  It is one thing to know where weakspots are.  It is another for RNG to actually allow you to shoot them.  Sometimes you fully aim your 6000 credit HEAT shell for that luscious E-100 lower plate, only to see it careen a meter left or right into his track... 0 damage.  Then he shoots and kills you without aiming.  It is aggravating in the extreme, related both to RNG and penetration mechanics.


I'm certain WG can offer detailed rationales explaining why its penetration system is sound.  But in practice--combined with RNG--it's frustrating, undependable and counterintuitive.  It has aggravated me so much that it's driven me away from the game.


9. Tier 10 Games : When I first got a Tier 10 tank in 2011, I thought I had reached the pinnacle of the WoT experience.  I had a big, bad E-100... who could touch me?!?  I quickly found out that plenty of people could touch me, and that was even before Tier 10 TDs, mediums or French autoloaders.  Back in those early days, arty used to completely dominate the Tier 10 landscape; games were slow, campy and grueling.  I spent my time clinging rocks, hoping that T92 wouldn't obliterate me as I moved the 75m to another rock.  In short, Tier 10 was a major letdown, an anticlimax if there ever were one.


Yet there has always been a certain prestige about Tier 10 tanks, and I have not refrained from pursuing that prestige.  I have 12 Tier 10 tanks/TDs and 2 Tier 10 arties.  I generally got them all because I wanted to give my clan a variety of possible choices for clan wars, as well as the person satisfaction of "collecting the best."


Still, I never enjoyed playing Tier 10 matches alone, or even with platoon mates.  As power creep advanced, Tier 10 became even less palatable.  So many things can kill you so fast at Tier 10 that even one false step will get you vaporized.  And sometimes you just have no chance when you are outscouted, lit up and wrecked in the game's opening minute. 


Every problem with WoT is magnified at Tier 10.  You are more reliant on your teammates at Tier 10 than at any other Tier, and once again, vision control determines the win, not your big bad Tier 10 heavy.  If anything dominates Tier 10 games now, it is competent scouts/mediums that allow the devastating Tier 10 TDs and arty to eviscerate the opposition without taking return fire.  It's WWI tactics: World of Spotting, stay in your trench and go over the top once the enemy is weakened.


Last month, I played 100 solopub games at Tier 10 as an experiment with all 12 of my Tier 10 tanks/TDs.  I knew it would adversely affect my morale, and it did.  I tempered it by saying I "was doing it for science," and to an extent that was true.  Subjectively, it was a grueling experience.  Most games were decided by scores greater than +/-8, and 10% were 15-2, 15-1 or 15-0 routs.  I won 56, lost 39 and drew 5.  I averaged 2800 damage over those games but never really felt I was determining the outcome myself.  My wins came because my team knew how to play and I provided some margin to our overall capacity.  We had vision control, knew how to push as a unit and stayed in cover as needed.  In my losses, we did not have vision control, we did not know how to push as a unit and we did not stay in cover... and that led to routs against us.


Tier 10 solopub gameplay is quite simply not enjoyable.  It is an ordeal.  You have the responsibility to lead, but often teammates without a firm grasp on what must be done, especially with regard to vision control.  This leads to frustration and pressure in losses, and a sense that winning had less to do with you than with the fact that your enemy had more noobs than your team did.


It amazes me that some people tout Tier 10 as the ultimate expression of the "WoT experience."  For me, it is a broken mess that should be avoided as much as possible.  Every negative aspect about the game finds magnified expression there (vision control, RNG, penetration mechanics, matchmaking, arty), and the feeling of hopelessness that comes with being on the wrong team is especially painful.


I had parted from solopub Tier 10 gameplay long ago.  But I mention it here because it has really become a poster boy for all the ills in the game.


10. Fun is getting harder to harvest; I'm tired of carrying: I have never been one of those players who says: "I play for fun!"  I am competitive and I always contribute as much as I can to staying alive in a match and hopefully winning.  To be clear, though, I wouldn't have played this game as much as I have since 2011 if it didn't give me significant pleasure.  It is a lot of fun when your team clicks, your shots go where you aim them and you don't get BS bounce after BS miss.  It is also a lot of fun when you are in the top spot of your matchmaking spread and can realistically affect the battle without cowering behind your (possibly very incompetent) higher tier teammates.


Yet I've been finding the fun harder and harder to harvest.  I don't get enjoyable games as much as I used to.  I get overly fixated on the glaring problems with game mechanics, as well as the luck-based vagaries inflicted upon me by RNG and MM.  I resent my incompetent teammates and bitterly envy opposing teams for actually having a core of good players against my pack of idiots.  I weary of fighting tooth and nail to reverse losing battles.  I carry way more often that I'd like to, and as proud as I am to carry some games, it's not something I'd prefer to do all the time: It's too emotionally taxing.  If I wanted more responsibility in my life I'd get another job.


And that's just it: WoT feels increasingly like a job to me.  I feel pressured to do well, pressured to carry, pressured to show up and take advantage of doubles and specials.  It's a burden to sit through fail teams and it's a burden to fight hard carrying noobs every other battle.  There's little joy in it for me, and sadly, it's usually RNG that lets me occasionally feel happy: My shots went where I aimed; I had good damage rolls; I bounced a shot; the arty missed me.  It's not my skill that leads to feeling good: It's whether RNG cooperates and matchmaker gives me a team I can work with.

To some extent, platooning helps me alleviate some of the most depressing aspects of random play in WoT.  But even then, sometimes RNG, matchmaking and failteams make even a triple purple platoon lose more than it wins.  And when that happens, platoon mates get angry and start pointing fingers, further poisoning the atmosphere that comes with a loss.  That isn't pleasant, and it makes you wonder why you're even playing in the first place.


Conclusion: WoT has given me so many good times over the past two and half years.  I have met many wonderful people and had many excellent experiences.  But I can't escape my growing dissatisfaction with both old and new issues with the game, and the fact that WG seems not to care about them.


This game could be truly wonderful if they would just make a few critical changes, or give players the option to eliminate certain maps from the rotation.  But these are just fantasies.


I have not said good bye to WoT.  But I unfortunately must say "I am no longer in love with you." 


It's been fun, lover, but you just won't change and you're not meeting my needs.

#4260111 The Ruthless Math of WoT (And Why Every Tank Matters)

Posted Zinegata on Apr 22 2013 - 10:36

The Ruthless Math of World of Tanks

One of the major "debates" that rage in the forums is the ability of a single player to affect the entire course of the match. In general, the concensus is that a single tank can in fact affect the course of an entire match (often termed as a "carry").

However, the problem with this "debate" is that it invariably boils down to what I call "win-rate makes me right" argument. We have some players who play solo and yet have very high win rates. Ergo, it is possible to "carry" a team all by yourself because the high win rates cannot simply be explained by "luck".

The problem with this approach is that it does very little to actually explain how such "carries" are actually possible. Often, we just get some pretty vague (and often bordering on mythical) explanations, usually centering around "skill".

This thread attempts to answer the "how". It will not be a discussion about skill or tactics (although it will reveal why some tactics are so vital). It will instead simply show the unbending gaming principles behind how WoT battles actually work - the "ruthless math" of the game, if you will.

The Key Concept: The Hitpoint Mechanic and Critical Existence Failure

To begin to understand the "math" of the game however, one crucial concept needs to be understood by the reader: "Critical Existence Failure" (henceforth abbreviated as "CEF"). And yes, I'm using the TV Tropes terminology; because it's more fun this way.

Basically, CEF is the model used by most games that use the hitpoint mechanic. Under this model, a unit can function at same level regardless if it was at full hitpoints, or if it was down to just 1 hitpoint. In WoT, it means a Sherman tank at 1 HP will still deal as much damage as a Sherman at full health. (And yes, I'm ignoring the module damage factor for now. See the side bar below)

What this means is that a 1 HP Sherman tank can potentially remain as effective as a Sherman with full HP. In fact, if the Sherman at full HP is an utterly bad player (whose shots keep missing or keep hitting spots that will just bounce the shell) it is entirely possible for a 1 HP Sherman to utterly demolish one at full health. I'm sure that most good players have done this one time or another, and it should already serve as an indication of how superior player knowledge ("skill") can lead to a decisive difference on the field.


The Myth of 15 vs 15

However, in reality, most matches are not won by a 1 HP Sherman duelling a full HP Sherman to death. Many will in fact point out that matches involve 15 tanks on both sides. Cue boohooing about how one tank can't carry 14 others.

But in reality, matches are not actually grand battles of 15 vs 15. Instead, most matches are actually a series of smaller (sometimes inter-related) fights - which I will term as "skirmishes", with often just two to four tanks of either side fighting for a particular section of the map.

As an example, take your average Lakefield battle. Let's assume there's two arty per side, and relatively competent players on both sides. Each team will probably send 2-4 tanks into the valley, 1-2 tanks into the mid, and the remainder (7-10) going into town.

But even in the case of the town, that big group often actually gets divided into a bunch of smaller skirmishes - with some tanks going to the lake shore, the others going to the church, and some hugging the map edge - none of which necessarilt interact with each other.

In fact, it is actually quite rare to see an outright slugging match involving more than 5 tanks from each side. Hence, the old excuse that "I'm just one tank out of fifteen" rings very hollow. You almost never actually fight 15 enemy tanks at a time at the point of contact. You will, in general, be fighting 2-4 enemy tanks, and you'll have about as many allies with you too.

And really, what tends to happen in a match is that the 15-man team will win some of these skirmishes, and then lose a couple of others. Your lake-shore team might overwhelm their counterparts, but your map-edge team might have similarly folded. Afterwards, the survivors of their respective skirmishes will make contact with each other into a series of new skirmishes; and the process is repeated until one team is wiped out.


The Anatomy of a Skirmish, as Dictated by CEF

When people think of a 4 vs 4 match, they tend to think that it should result in a "fair" fight, wherein both sides essentially wiped each other out. And indeed, this is what sometimes happens - with only 1 or 2 badly damaged survivors emerging from the furball of 8 tanks.

But the reality of most skirmishes is actually different, especially if it involves players of different skills levels.

To demonstrate, let's construct a thought exercise. Let's assume we have two teams of four tanks apiece. Each tank has 450 HP and inflicts 120 damage with each shot (so 4 shots to kill an enemy tank). Let's assume both sides hit and penetrate 100% of the time (a bit unrealistic, but bear with me).

However, let's give Team A a small but crucial advantage. Let's assume that Team A knows how to focus-fire, while Team B does not. Team B's tanks will only shoot their opposite-numbered tank, until that tank is destroyed.

Given this setup, the following will happen:

* At Start:
Team A Tank 1: 450 HP
Team A Tank 2: 450 HP
Team A Tank 3: 450 HP
Team A Tank 4: 450 HP

Team B Tank 1: 450 HP
Team B Tank 2: 450 HP
Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP

* After First Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 330 HP
Team A Tank 3: 330 HP
Team A Tank 4: 330 HP
Total Damage Done: 450

Team B Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 2: 450 HP
Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 480

* After Second Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 210 HP
Team A Tank 3: 210 HP
Team A Tank 4: 210 HP
Total Damage Done: 900

Team B Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 840

* After Third Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 210 HP
Team A Tank 3: 90 HP
Team A Tank 4: 90 HP
Total Damage Done: 1350

Team B Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 3: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 1080

* After Fourth Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 210 HP
Team A Tank 3: 90 HP
Team A Tank 4: DESTROYED
Total Damage Done: 1800

Team B Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 3: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 4: DESTROYED
Total Damage Done: 1170

Rather different from the expectation of mutual annihilation, isn't it?

Indeed, by simply focus-firing, Team A was able to inflict 50% more damage than Team B, while preserving the life of 3 tanks which can now be redeployed elsewhere for decisive effect! How did this happen?

Well, I promised the math, and here it is. What we're witnessing is what is called the "snowball effect" - wherein something of seemingly minor importance suddenly balloons into something more dangerous and disastrous.

In this case, the disaster began when Team B lost its first tank during the first volley. Because of CEF, Team B lost 25% of its firepower at this moment - firepower that could have inflicted another 360 points of damage had Tank 1 survived to fire for the remaining 3 volleys. That's actually enough damage to destroy two of Team A's remaining tanks! (Tank 2 & 3 have only 300 HP remaining in total)

Thus, the loss of just one tank was the difference between Team A winning with 3 surviving tanks instead of just 1 surviving tank. It was, in all likelihood, also difference in winning the whole match overall.

And really, if you actually take a while to look at how skirmishes develop, you'll notice this pattern often when your team is winning: After your team destroys one tank, the second kill comes faster, and the third even faster, until the enemy team seemingly collapses like a house of cards. It's all because each and every gun matters in these skirmishes - once the enemy team has fewer tanks your team is now much more able to focus-fire and bring down enemy tanks in rapidity, while the enemy has much less firepower to throw back at you.

So when people stress the importance of focus-fire and target prioritization, listen. Because the snowball effect of losing just one tank can cascade to victory or defeat for a specific skirmish, which in turn can win or lose an entire match.

That being said, it must be noted that focus-fire situations are actually pretty rare. Most players are now smart enough not to just expose themselves and let themselves be shot at by multiple players at a time. With peak-a-boo tactics, even skirmishes of 4 vs 4 tanks may in reality turn into 1 vs 1 engagements.

Hence, the need to create situations where you can rapidly kill an enemy tank - a technique which I call the "isolation".



A Game of Isolations

"Isolation" is the art of bringing as much firepower to bear on an enemy tank - with the intent of rapidly destroying it - while at the same time preventing your own forces from being exposed to lethal fire from the enemy.

As I already noted before, most players don't sit out in the open anymore shooting at each other. They'll often use cover and try to at least make themselves a harder target for the enemy. The 4vs4 example I showed above should not literally play out that way in real matches (hence why it's a thought exercise).
What instead happens is that good players are constantly moving and maneuvering, looking for a way to create a situation wherein they can quickly gang up on an enemy tank without suffering much return fire - preferrably only from the target tank.

In fact, a well-played isolation is how "skunks" (matches wherein one team loses no tanks, while the enemy is wiped out) actually happen. Again, let's do the thought exercise thing, but this time with Team A doing isolations instead of focus fire...

*At Start:
Team A Tank 1: 450 HP
Team A Tank 2: 450 HP
Team A Tank 3: 450 HP
Team A Tank 4: 450 HP

Team B Tank 1: 450 HP
Team B Tank 2: 450 HP
Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP

After First Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 450 HP
Team A Tank 3: 450 HP
Team A Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 450

Team B Tank 2: 450 HP
Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 120

After Second Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 330 HP
Team A Tank 3: 450 HP
Team A Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 900

Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 240

After Third Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 330 HP
Team A Tank 3: 330 HP
Team A Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 1350

Team B Tank 4: 450 HP
Total Damage Done: 360

After Fourth Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 330 HP
Team A Tank 3: 330 HP
Team A Tank 4: 330 HP
Total Damage Done: 1800

Team B Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 3: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 4: DESTROYED
Total Damage Done: 480

In this case, not only did Team A come out without losing a single tank, but they not inflicted more than 3x the damage of the enemy team!

And really, this is how the "unicums" actually achieve most of their wins. It is not about some mythical "skill" requiring better gunnery or whatnot. Instead, it revolves around the ability to pick out vulnerable (but important) enemy tanks in the pack, rapidly destroy them, which starts a snowball effect wherein the missing damage from the destroyed tanks rapidly adds up to their team's advantage.

More importantly, this can be achieved outside of platooning, so long as you remain constantly aware of how the game revolves around isolation. As a final thought experiment, let's do our Team A vs Team B thing again... only this time let's assume that Tank 1 of Team A is a skilled player who knows how to focus-fire...

At Start:
Team A Tank 1: 450 HP
Team A Tank 2: 450 HP
Team A Tank 3: 450 HP
Team A Tank 4: 450 HP

Team B Tank 1: 450 HP
Team B Tank 2: 450 HP (Focus-Fire Target)
Team B Tank 3: 450 HP
Team B Tank 4: 450 HP

After First Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 330 HP
Team A Tank 2: 330 HP
Team A Tank 3: 330 HP
Team A Tank 4: 330 HP
Total Damage Done: 480

Team B Tank 1: 450 HP
Team B Tank 2: 210 HP (Focus-Fire Target)
Team B Tank 3: 330 HP
Team B Tank 4: 330 HP
Total Damage Done: 480

After Second Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 210 HP
Team A Tank 2: 210 HP
Team A Tank 3: 210 HP
Team A Tank 4: 210 HP
Total Damage Done: 930

Team B Tank 1: 450 HP
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED (Old Focus-Fire Target)
Team B Tank 3: 210 HP
Team B Tank 4: 210 HP (New Target for our unicum, who assumes Tank 2 will target tank 3)
Total Damage Done: 960

After Third Volley:
Team A Tank 1: 90 HP
Team A Tank 2: 210 HP
Team A Tank 3: 90 HP
Team A Tank 4: 90 HP
Total Damage Done: 1320

Team B Tank 1: 450 HP (Last target, everyone is going after him now!)
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 3: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 4: DESTROYED
Total Damage Done: 1080

After Fourth Volley:
Team A Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team A Tank 2: 210 HP
Team A Tank 3: 90 HP
Team A Tank 4: 90 HP
Total Damage Done: 1800

Team B Tank 1: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 2: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 3: DESTROYED
Team B Tank 4: DESTROYED
Total Damage Done: 1410

So despite Team B doing a little more damage than in the pure focus-fire example, and our unicum being the only casualty on Team A, his focus-fire efforts was actually enough to make his team still do 50% more damage overall, while leaving 3 of the 4 tanks intact. Heck, if Team A's Tank 2 had shielded our unicum, they would all have survived.


So in summary, the "ruthless math" of the game, thanks to CEF and its snowball effect, revolves around the rapid destruction of enemy tanks to reduce the opposing team's firepower; while preserving your own team's damage-dealing ability. Keep even your 1 HP teammates alive because they can pump out damage that is the difference between victory and defeat. Just one tank out of four knowing how to focus-fire can lead to huge swings in a match.

Of course, real WoT matches involve much more than just the thought experiment highlighted above. It doesn't take into consideration things like tier mismatches (e.g. a Tier 6 skirmishing two Tier 5s), nor does it account for more random things like bounces, no-damage hits, or misses. The number of volleys to kill enemy tanks also isn't as neat in the game, with different tiers and different kinds of guns.

But what it does show is that if everyone is playing consistently, then each tank does matter. It's time to give up on the notion that you're just one tank out of fifteen.

#1017195 The Chieftain's Random Musings Thread

Posted The_Chieftain on Oct 18 2011 - 19:22

General Direction and I are having a bit of an internal contest in the office. Didn't realise we had one going, but apparently we do.

He is pleased at the fact that he has a higher 'reputation' than I do. He cunningly used the caption competition to increase his rep: Click "plus" next to the caption that you like, and he placed ten posts on there.

I'm going to be more direct. Please plus this post!

#1781942 The 10 Commandments of WoT

Posted Sword_of_Light on Apr 23 2012 - 14:00

1.  Thou Shalt Not Team Kill.  No offense is greater in the eyes of thine team, nor grievance great enough to justify slaying thine own.  If the retch turn blue, strike him down, for he is an abomination, but neither grief nor TK if mere offense is given.

2.  Thou Shalt Not Cry Out "Hacker!".  There is no hack, for thine is the kingdom of the server side.  Thou ye know not how that artie reloaded so quickly, or that heavy doth strike you down even though you totally had cover, it is not a hack, but skill, thine enemies skill.  Learn from them, so that ye may one day strike down thine own enemies with similar mad skillz.

3.  Thou Shalt Not Take Thine Own Life.  For all life is sacred, with the obvious exception of yon red infidels, and only thine wife's lament that ye are late for dinner with the inlaws shall ye rush out midfield in Malinovka.  All else is sin.

4.  Thou Shalt Not Platoon With Tier Ones Unless Ye Be Tier One.  For the Children of WoT are many, and naive, and have neither shield nor sword, and though they may desire to see the great and ferocious Maus on the field of battle, verily, it is a move more like the behind of a mule to bring one in to a match.  

5.  Thou Shall Be Useful.  All tanks are worthy in the eyes of the Maker of Matches, unless they beith loltanks, and though ye cannot pen, and lament that ye have no purpose being here, take heart, for you can scout, or distract.  Be not craven and hide in the corner, but strive, and in doing so, vex thine enemies.  If ye are small, then thy repair costs are but a pittance, and your death but a minor thing.  Your wreckage may serve as a haven for those who still strive for the victory which will surely granteth you too the boon of xp and creds.

6.  Thou Shall Take Responsibility.  Thou shalt not claim thine team arises from the land of the noob, for rarely is a loss not also your fault.  Nobility in defeat is greater in glory than nobility in victory.  

7.  Thou Shalt Not Order In Pubs.  Though many have worn the crows and chevrons of war, none do so in WoT, and no prince nor king can lay sole claim to the green flag.  Order not thine team to do this or that, even if ye be a master of WoT, none is so great that they cannot utter the word "please".

8.  Thou Shall Back the Play of The Big Guy.  For though none command, there are those that sit upon high, and they are the point of the spear.  If they strike alone, all is lost.  Let them not wander in the wastes of thine enemies, but follow with sword in hand, and strike down the unrighteous.

9.  Thou Shalt Not Blame Arty.  Artillery is the hand that reaps the enemies in the field, it is the fist that punishes the arrogance of Men.  Seek the shelter of stone, of buildings which are not destructible, of the shadow of the hills, and the hand shall pass over you.  Move, for the eye of artillery detests the stationary, and will strike down those enemies who linger.  Curse neither arty which has struck you down, nor curseth the arty which cannot strike the tier ten Leviathan on the other team.  Much goes into the striking fist of arty, and when the blow lands, it can be mighty, or it can totally whiff.  Such is the way of the world of tanks.

10.  Thou Shall Remember This Is Just A Game.  While thee may have paid cold hard cash, still the striving within are not real.  Wars rage for real, and real people die, and many go without food, or freedom, and nothing in this game is nearly as important.  Thou art blessed with the monies to have a PC, while many go without even a roof.  Nor playest this game when thou has the opportunity to get you some, nor at the cost of thine friends and family, who are real.  If rage within you cannot be contained, and your lamentations arise with much profanity, perhaps the time to stop is nigh upon you.

#3213434 Lert's collection of guides

Posted Lert on Dec 09 2012 - 20:04

Just a place where I collect all the guides I've written. As they keep slowly growing in number it's more difficult to keep track of them when I need them for something. Keeping them in a central spot makes it much easier on myself. And, who knows, maybe some readers will stumble across this thread, read my guides and find something useful in there.
Before you do though, you might want to pay KingAlphyn's thread a visit, there's good stuff in there for before you venture into actual gameplay mechanics.
Anyways ..
A tanker's manifesto, the absolute basics.
Easy tips for beginners.
Basic gameplay mechanics explained. Weak spots + tank parts, flanking, camo basics, spaced armor, sloped armor, HE mechanics.
Be the invisitank. Camouflage and spotting basics.
Focus your fire.
How to deal with stronger opponents.
Different shells types and mechanics.
Anatomy of capping and defending.
Picking your fights.
Why the famed 'center rush' is usually a monumentally moronic idea.
The basic mindset needed to become a better player.
The 'S' key, or why sometimes backing up and giving up ground can be a good thing.
How to deal with players better than you.
About vehicle types, roles and playstyles.
How to contribute if you're a low tier scout in a high tier match.
How to deal with 'autoloaders'
How real world gun safety rules can bring down in-game team damage
How real world traffic rules can bring down in-game team damage.
TOG II* guide
Why there is no real 'hacking' in WoT.
Public Service Announcements:
When a KV-2 is not a nice thing to see.
What not to do when someone is sitting in a bush.
Play at your appropriate tiers.
About skylining, slow terrain, choke points and gun depression, and how it relates to Lakeville.
About Arctic Region's corner of death / fail.


How to post a picture on this forum.
Other people's guides that I felt needed including, well worth a read:
LittleWhiteMouse's 'how to increase your win rate' guide for beginning to intermediate players.
GrimJahk's dissertation about expectations vs tiers vs experience.
The Chieftain's own guides.


OmegaEpsilon's guide on dealing with troll players on your team.


Sask Outrider's collection.


The_bolshevik's excellent KV-2 guide.
I'll update this thread if / when I post a new guide.
This is now an ego thread of +1 farming.


Yes, I take donations.

#3134282 [WN7] What is it and how does it work?

Posted Praetor77 on Nov 29 2012 - 00:36

WN7 formula:
+SPOT*125*MIN(TIER, 3)/3
-[(5 - MIN(TIER,5))*125] / [1 + e^( ( TIER - (GAMESPLAYED/220)^(3/TIER) )*1.5 )]
Would like to highlight that MIN() means the number capped at that value, so MIN(TIER, 5) means avg tier capped at 5, (so player avg tier is used if it is lower than 5, otherwise 5 is used) and MIN(DEF,2.2) means defense is capped at 2.2.
written by Neverwish, Crabeatoff and Praetor77
Work on WN7 is a community effort. I consider everyone who has posted in this forum to have contributed their two cents into making WN what it is today. However, I would like to highlight the contribution of the people who have dedicated the most time and effort into making WN:
Key contributors: Tpapp157, Neatoman, Syndicate, Maokai, Makaze2048, Guerdon, DracoArgentum, Crabeatoff, TheKilltech, etc. etc.
The WN rating was created using statistical analysis tools like correlation studies and evolutionary algorythms to create an accurate formula, using Win Rate as a proxy to accurately determine the weight each stat would have in the formula. The idea was to create a formula which actually tried to measure player skill in the most accurate way possible, using global account stats.
The Efficiency formula was the basis for an analysis to figure out what was wrong with it and create an improved formula with those problems fixed.
WN is short for Weighed and Normalized, and implements various ways to deal with statpadding, and in the end tried to develop a metric that could only be padded by actually being good at the game.
Key points of the WN Rating are:
  • Damage is scaled according to your average tier and is the most important stat in the formula. The points you get for damage are carefully tied to the avg tier played, so that players with avg tier played 6 or 9 could be accurately compared, despite having very different average damage. To do this, average damage for tiers were collected from vbaddict.net and the data was carefully fitted to a non-linear curve.
  • Players with a considerable number of battles who have an average tier lower than 4 are heavily penalized for sealclubbing. New players with few battles under their belts are not penalized until they achieve a big number of battles but remain with a low average tier played.
  • Cap points are not counted towards your rating, since despite HUGE efforts and statistical analysis mainly performed by Syndicate, there was no statistically sound way to include cap points into the formula. The data suggests that for the average player cap points which are actually useful in winning a game for your team are drowned out by the huge amount of useless cap points gathered at the end of already won games.
  • Winrate is used as a proxy to measure intangible stats which are not available on the player profile like spotted damage, cap used to lure the enemy out, stopping scouts from killing your arty, tracking enemies at crucial moments, keeping your teammates alive, map awareness and other crucial decisions not recorded in the stats. This term of the forumla counts for 0-10% of final WN rating.
  • Average Defense points is capped at 2.2 to prevent padding. Defense also proved to be highly correlated to winrate, suggesting players who have map awareness and return to base when needed to stop enemy capping win more often.
  • One of the most important characteristics of the WN Rating is the open development format, meaning any player can post in this thread and suggest modifications, which will be tested and, if successful, implemented. By having this open development model, it effectively eliminates biases which closed formulas such as Efficiency have.
  • After the rating was released, WoTLabs was the first website to implement it, keeping it up to date every time a new version is launched. Although many people dislike the fast evolution of the rating (having gone through several changes and versions in only 4 months), this means that the formula rapidly grows more accurate. It has spread to the point where the WN Rating is now the standard rating used on the XVM mod, although transformed into a 0-99 scale rating.

Common Misconceptions
Despite having been based on advanced algorithms, the WN Rating did not pass without heavy criticism, although most, if not all, of this criticism turned out to be misconceptions.
One common complaint was that, if it was made to correlate with win rate, then we could just use win rate. Unfortunately win rate can be easily padded by platooning with good players. The WN Rating separates those padded players by using their actual stats. A veteran player with a low WN Rating but a high win rate has been probably been heavily padded.
Another common criticism is that we should stop caring about statistics and just play the game, since statistics eventually lead to mockery. Unfortunately World of Tanks is a competitive game, and as in all competitive games, there must be a measuring stick in order to know if you are improving and how much you are improving, otherwise we might as well go play Farmville. Shooting tanks for the heck of it gets boring after a while. The idea behind WN is to use it as a tool to make sure you keep improving, and also as a wealth of information when used in XVM to help you make critical decisions based on the skill of your teammates and enemies.
Other players criticize the formula for not taking things like spotting damage into account. This can hardly be pinned on the WN Rating, since Wargaming has not released this information publicly. The WN Rating can only work with what it has available. To account for those invisible stats that help win games, Win Rate has been added to the formula.
Lastly, many players criticized using winrate in the formula, since the very same winrate was used as a proxy to weigh the other stats in the evolutionary formula. However, as posted above, the idea was not to reward winrate, but to use it as a proxy for intangible stats. Also, the reward for these "intangibles" are carefully tailored by Neatoman into an S-curve with diminishing returns for winrates above 60%, where correlation to stats drop significantly, suggesting winrates above this value are purely due to platooning and companies. Also supporting this data is the fact that Zakaladas (quite possibly NA server´s best player) almost always plays solo and averages 64% wins.
Limitations and problems
Formulas can only be created from stats that are made available via the official WoT website. Efficiency depends on those same stats. Everything WoT-news computes is off those same stats. More information on YOUR history is available from the cached dossier file, but unless everyone starts mass uploading those (which will never happen), then the official website stats are THE source for data.
What isn't in WoT website stats?
  • Normalized Experience (XP) - theoretically WG could keep track of experience based on whether a user had a premium account or not, and then either remove the premium bonus OR give all standard account users the bonus (for stats purposes) to normalize XP across users.
  • Damage Upon Detection - Damage done to targets you are spotting yourself, by tanks who are not spotting them themselves. The latter is the bread and butter of light tanks (LTs) and of front line fighters. The other bonuses are relatively small compared to the latter. But it is the most noticeably missing in all rating calculations, and it particularly screws over LTs.
  • Per tank anything - the website cannot tell you damage per tank, spots per tank, etc. This information lives in your dossier and somewhere on the WG servers. If you use a dossier parsing tool (there are several web based and one local), you can obtain this information on your per tank performances. There is something called an API which gives you this kind of information, but currently the NA server API does not work correctly, like for example it says I have 15.4 spots per game on my IS-4.

Implications of these limitations
Light tanks
Due to the lack of DUD (damage upon spotting) on the WG website, light tanks are unfairly measured by WN7. They normally get lower WN7 scores than heavy, med or TDs of the same tier. That being said, WN7 is actually the metric that gives one of NA server´s best scouts (Redparadize) the highest rating...
PR: 1842
Eff2.0: 1742
WN7: 1943
SPGs also cause issues, as their tiers are not lined up with the rest of tanks! They do much more damage than their tier value would indicate for a HT, MT or TD. This is a known limitation of the formulas. Extensive programming (parsing the website stats for SPG counts and adjusting their tier) COULD fix this, but the problem will go away when the SPGs tiers are stretched to match (per the latest ASAP with SerB). For now...we deal with it. Who care about SPG players stats anyways, amirite?!?!?
Some statistical limitations
When measuring a population, its not going to be possible to put every single person on the scale and have the scale make sense. Again, returning to a notable outlier, Tazilon and his 20k+ VK2801 games. This massive number of games means his average tier played is 5.35, which is lower than is "generally expected" for someone with 28k total games. It takes longer to move through higher tier tanks, and so you end up with more weight at 6+. Because WN7 is designed to measure the population relative to each other, some assumptions have to be made about the habits of the general population. Most players don't play 20k games in any single class or tier below 8, let alone 20k in a single tier 5. If someone plays 10k games in the MS-1....outlier! Takeaway: population ratings cannot account for every outlier.
Back to the formula
A detailed explanation of each portion of the WN7 formula by Crabeatoff and Praetor77.
Includes the answer to questions like "Why is cap not included in the formula?", "How much does winrate contribute to the equation" and "How does the low tier penalty work?":

WN7 Scale
This is the current scale for the WN7 Rating:
WN7 Rating Key
Under 500 Very Bad
500 to 699 Bad
700 to 899 Below Average
900 to 1099 Average
1100 to 1349 Good
1350 to 1549 Very Good
1550 to 1849 Great
1849 to 2049 Unicum
2050 and Above Super Unicum
This scale is different from the one used in XVM, since their analysis of russian player database gave different results. The scale is currently on schedule to be readjusted to an analysis of the wotlabs player database being performed by Neverwish.
And this is what goes on inside the WN Rating. I hope I could clear some doubts regarding this formula! Feel free to post on this thread if you have any suggestions or questions.
Boom_Box's script which modifies Player profile page and shows a lot of extra information, including WN7.
Excel sheet by Folterknecht for offline WN7 calculations
Wotlabs website for awesome signatures and other stats
Mywotstats website for signatures, player stats, and some neat features like customized server rankings for 30 or 60 day stats
Noobmeter website for noobmeter metric, WN7 stats, a neat history of your wN7, NM and WR stats, etc.
Old information for previous versions of WN:

#4894058 RNG: Is It Really Random?

Posted Pope_Shizzle on Jul 09 2013 - 18:00

Is RNG truly random or is it WG's way of trying to balance good and bad players? We've all been in those situations where we're driving along at 70kph, zig zagging, bobbing and weaving and some 42%'er in his KV2 with the 152 derp hits us with a 600 meter shot while on the full move with both hull and turret rotating. Where we dump a clip from the T57 or 50B and hit for an average of 325 per shot while the 44%'er in his KV-1S pens us for 488 seemingly every time. Where a fully zoomed shot on the side of a terribad crits with no damage and his IS frontally pens your E75 3 straight times.
Is this just bad luck for you and heavenly RNG for the baddie or is something else going on. Is there something more to RNG than meets the eye.

Around patch 8.0, with the advent of physics, I started to notice/suspect that I was, more often than not, low rolling damaging shots. I know that sometimes it seems more frequent because the low rolls are more memorable than the high ones. So, with 8.1, I began tracking every single penetrating damage shot I took. I counted only shots than penned and did damage. I did not count zero damage pens, kill shots, or shots on tanks where they had fewer HP than the max roll I could achieve.  The results were somewhat surprising.

In approximately 42,000 damaging shots I tracked, I rolled the following:

Average to -5% of average = 18% of the time.
-6% to -10% = 14%
-11% to -15% = 12%
-16% to -20% = 11%
-21% to -25% = 10%

Average to +5% = 15%
6% to 10% = 7%
11% to 15% = 4%
16% top 20% = 4%
21% to 25% = 4%

64% of all my shots did below average damage.
1% were right at average.
35% of my shots were did above average damage.

I rolled, on average, 14.8% lower than the average roll for each shot I took.  In theory, a RNG should be random, which means I should expect an even distribution of rolls across all brackets. Each of the 10 breakdowns should be around 10%. The odds of rolling 500 on a 300-500 gun are the same as rolling 400 or 304 of 422 or whatever number in that 300-500 range. Why then are the damage rolls centered around the middle and as you go towards the extremes, the number of rolls gets smaller?

Any why are my rolls tending towards below average damage instead of above or simply even?
I started wondering around patch 8.3 whether there was some skill based RNG being factored into player's individual RNG.
So, like any pseudo-scientist, I enlisted the help of some friends and spent hours in the training room shooting tanks, logging damage and comparing the results based on 3 different quality players. Results were as expected.

This was my experiment. I took 3 players, each with a T-50-2 mounting the 57mm Zis-4 and had them enter a training room me, player 4, in my FV215b. I wanted to get high pen low damage guns shooting weak tanks with lots of HP to generate a lot of pens and a lot of HP to go through so we could minimize having to restart training rooms.

Player 1: 45% win rate after about 6k battles. 820 WN7.
Player 2: 51% win rate after 9k battles. 1100 WN7.
Player 3: 58% win rate after 14k battles. 1650 WN7.
Player 4: 65% win rate after 20k battles. 1850 WN7.

The Zis-4 does between 64 and 106 damage per shot with an average damage of 85. All shots should, in theory penetrate the rear hull of the 215 and do full damage.

Each player fired 500 rounds over the course of multiple training rooms. These were the results:

Player 1: 500 penetrating rounds tracked. 47814 total damage done. 95.6 damage per shot. 10 points (12.5%) above average.
Player 2: 500 penetrating rounds tracked. 42088 total damage done. 84.1 damage per shot. 0.9 points (0.01%) below average.
Player 3: 500 penetrating rounds tracked. 38742 total damage done. 77.5 damage per shot. 7.5 points (8.8%) below average.

500 rounds is enough that a +-10% deviation from average is more than just a result of a smallish sample size. Moreover, the 42,000 rounds I have tracked is a significant sample size and there is no explanation for the 15% lower rolls I got from those rounds.

Whether this is the case with penetrating rolls as well, I have no idea, I didn't/couldn't test for that. I also can't tell if the target player's skill has an effect either. Since pen/dmg rolls are only made from the shooting tank, I wouldn't expect the target tank's skill level to matter.

Conclusion: It would appear there is some trending amongst RNG based on player skill. Whether its win rate, xp per game, dpg, or whatever, players who do better seem to get RNG's that are designed to roll lower than average/bad players in terms of damage rolls and players who are worse seem to get rolls that are higher than average.

#525065 Athena's Complete Female Crew Overhaul Mod

Posted Lady_Athena on May 09 2011 - 16:10

Note: Hello Everyone. This is an update as of 2/22/2014. I know it's no surprise to anyone who still uses my mod, that I have not been working on it for quite a long time. This is a formal and complete confirmation that I am no longer working, or planning on working on this mod any longer. Since I do not actually play WoT anymore (except for some very rare cases), and since I have moved onto War Thunder Ground Forces, I have no intentions to continue with the mod. (Unless popular demand says otherwise, which I've heard nothing about.) If anyone wishes too continue my project, I am perfectly alright with that so long as credit is given to me where it is due. Letting me know you're taking on the project and picking up where I left off would also be nice :).


I am sorry.

Hello Everyone!
This is a personal Mod I am working on, on my own free time; to make everything that has to do with your crew Feminine. At the moment thanks to 2 other Mods already out. I have completed the collection and made USA Anime female crew members and combined them all into 1.
I've recently updated and uploaded it to TesNexus: http://worldoftanks....ds.com/mods/401 Feel free to comment here as well of what you think about the mod :smiles:

What I've Done

As the name implies, I have made the crews for all 3 nations into anime females. Pictures, names, and voices. There were 2 other small mods which replaced just the pictures for German and USSR separately. I've combined these into my mod as well. (More info in the Thanks To section)
Updates to Come:
Part 1 Anime Pictures for all 3 Nations: Done!
Part 2 Gothic Female Names: Done!
Part 3: French Crew: Done!
Part 4: "Military" style/look/feel Anime Female Pics: These pictures will show Anime girls in either military clothing, or a military style pictureGerman Crew Done!
Part 5: Chinese Crew PicsDone!
Part 6: UK Crews Done!
Part 7: Anime Tank skinsDue to Time Constraints I may not be doing this anytime soon
Part 8: More Options for each Nation: Same as Part 7
Ongoing Updates:
(ongoing updates are updates which are done, but will constantly be expanded and added too as time goes by)
*Splash Screens: Multiple different Anime Splash Screens to choose from Done!
*Female Voices: Done! but with more to come!
*New Music: New Music for the battles, most likely something along the lines of Nightcore/Trance/Techno, which merges well with Anime/WoT at the same time.
Please be patient as I work on the final product for this complete overhaul mod. I am doing this on my own free time as a personal Mod since I love the game so much <3.
If you have any questions/concerns, want to give thanks, suggestions, or anything else, please feel free to PM me, or write it on here ^.^.
Please +1 the post if you like the mod! <3~

Installation Instructions:


Please use the .txt in each of the folders contained in the mod.

1) Unpack the .rar
2) Open the folder
3) Follow the instructions found inside each of these folders: Female Crew Pics, Female Name Mod, Female Voices, Login Screen.
Note: I split the mod up on purpose, so you could choose what you want, for example, if you dont want the female voices, simply skip that folder.
Discussion and videos with each voices can be found here: http://forum.worldof...-in-client-071/


Name Fix:
http://www.mediafire...mes for 8.7.rar
(Install this last to fix the names since patch 8.7)

How YOU Can Help:

Ever Wanted to be a voice actor girls? Now you can! Just give me a PM! I need a few girls who are willing to record their voice for Part 3 of my mod!

Oh Noes! New Patch now your mod doesnt work! Help!

Do not worry, simply re-install the mod like you did the first time, and everything will work like new :smile:, your tankers pictures and original names will switch back to how they were. :smile:
Known Problems:
*Some Duplicate names for First/Last, Sometimes you may get a name such as Cute Cute, though this is rare.
German Crew #2


USSR Crew Option 2

USA Crew

USA Crew Option 2

French Crew

Japanese Crew

Name Examples:
(Click the spoiler tab to see a partial list of the names, full list of names is in the .rar)
*Names with -First at the end, means they are First Names
*Names with -Last at the end, means they are Last Names
*Names with -First/Last at the end, means they are both

Thanks To:

Even though I started creating this mod, There were 2 mods at the time already out. One for Female anime pictures for USSR and one for Female Anime pictures for German. Thanks to these two people for allowing me to combine them with my full re-make mod :smile:, Thanks for keeping my mod unique and different, and most of all Alive :teethhappy:
Marseille: USSR Anime Female crew Pictures
Khyron: German Anime Female Crew
RelicShadow: A little random help here and there
TopCombat2: Help with the voices

Additions After:

I'm pleased to see people wanting to add their own little variations to my mod ^.^ So here will be the list of mods I've added in as options after my original mod was done ^.^ <3
Marseille: USSR crew pictures option #2
EinstZecksclaw: USA crew pictures option #2
USA Gothic Style Names Teaser


#508623 [0.9.0] Aslain's XVM Mod + Modpack Installer w/PREVIEW v3.4.21 <upd 0...

Posted Aslain on May 01 2011 - 23:41


The mod is in a constant developement, visit this thread often to see what's new.

>>>> Aslain's XVM Mod v3.4.21 <<<<

(automatic installer, 37 MB)


#6676094 To WarGaming NA

Posted WraithCAS on Feb 26 2014 - 11:08

I would like to express how disgusted I am right now with the lack of information/involvement from WGNA. Never have I seen an online gaming company with so little involvement from it's staff/administrators. You guys keep piling up mistakes after mistakes while never making up for them. We've been lied to so many times about specials, events, prizes/rewards and so on. ( 5 cents off 20-50 $ bundles during Christmas is just one of many examples ). I barely see any involvement from administrators on this forum, you guys seem to enjoy us as blind as bats.


There's been a patch ( 8.11 ) implemented recently. Many players ( including myself ) are experiencing lag/Fps drops since the update has been installed. My question is; What would it cost you guys to make a single PINNED topic keeping us updated on what's going on ?


In my personal experience, someone from WGNA staff posting a topic stating that they are investigating the issue would be enough to please most of the community, at least we would feel like you are aware of what's going on in your own damn game. When I used to play League of Legends, the support was amazing, the staff was amazing and the forums were actually helpful as the RIOT crew would keep us informed about certain game bugs, champions bugs and so on. I know WGNA doesn't have the same budget or as many staff members as RIOT but some effort would be much appreciated.


Now when I expressed my opinion to another player on these issues, he told me ''If you don't like the service, don't use it. WG is a business''. I almost threw up as I couldn't bear someone with such looser mentality. A business should always at the very least try and make the product better, you should always strive to improve and to please your community and loyal costumers. I'm not seeing any of this from WGNA so far.


I'm not saying that you guys should listen to every crazy ideas out there, some are better than others. Some feedback, some forum presence would be awesome, we would like to read your opinions because as of now, we don't have a clue what you guys are striving for.


In example : I could make a topic asking why you guys implemented a more strict team damage/ team kill system BEFORE implementing more strict platooning rules IE: ( Tier9 with 3 )? It doesn't make any sense to me. But maybe it does to you. So get out here and tell me why I'm wrong.


One more thing, with new TK system and the absolute terrible support we've been supplied with, it is becoming a lot harder to deal with disturbing players who drive in front of you, ram you or just stand  behind your tank and push you to your death.  So much more frustration out of it. IMO there should have been a TK violation reset with this update.


Here are some requests/tips from a player who knows his way around your game.


- More forum presence from the WNGA Staff. We want to know what your thinking and what you strive for.


- Keep us informed. We want to know what's the problem with artillery shots landing outside the reticule. We want to know why the new patch made so many players lag and rage. We want to know you found a bug and you are working on it.


- STOP lying to us. Man up, be honest with your player base. No tricky double crossing reward system with fake prizes. 1% discounts are an insult, it should be obvious.


- Better support system. I'm not gonna lie, I hate asking questions to single minded robots.


Thanks. Even though I have very little hope of seeing WGNA answer this topic, it's a nice way to vent out some well accumulated frustration.




#6942573 Vehicle Recovery Online Tool

Posted Jewel_Thief on Apr 09 2014 - 00:24

Greetings tankers!


Did you really just sell that amazing Premium vehicle? Don't panic! Now, you can get your vehicle back into the action, and fast.


Using our Premium Vehicle Recovery Service, you can restore your lost Premium vehicles straight to your garage. You can even get your unique gift tanks back! This new process eliminates the need to submit a ticket to Support and means that you'll be back in fighting shape quicker than ever.


Along with this service, we're introducing a new policy on the restoration of Premium vehicles. You'll have 72 hours to restore any accidentally-sold Premium vehicle. This process can be completed for an unlimited number of vehicles, provided timely use of the tool. You can also restore any number of Unique vehicles one time every 180 days per vehicle.


The Premium Vehicle Recovery System is currently in beta; we'll be looking for your feedback as we roll it out. Our hope is that this new service will empower you to recover quickly from an accidental Premium vehicle sale. 


For a more detailed treatment of this new feature, take a look at the detailed Overview, and our Knowledge Base article.


Roll out!!


EDIT: Ack-- now you can respond to this thread!! Sorry!!  


Hey folks,

Due to the amount of questions about this new feature, I have compiled an [FAQ] for you all.



PSA: If you are using Gmail, check your "Promotions" folder for the confirmation email.





Thank you for all of your help testing the Vehicle Recovery Tool!

We are going to be disabling it for improvements tonight at around 23:59 PDT (it's April 15th, btw.)

We will be retaining the policy for vehicle restores (special tanks once every 180 days and premium tanks within 72 hours) but we will be handling requests through the Support system.

We will be letting you know when it will be going up again. In the mean time we will be locking this thread. A new feedback thread will appear when the improved tool is introduced.

Thank you all, again! See you on the battlefield!


#6899098 [Official] Top Secret Tank Event (Karl) Feedback

Posted Laera on Apr 01 2014 - 23:52

Greetings Tankers!

We're thrilled that most of you are enjoying today's Top Secret Tank Event! We've noticed that Karl has has taken over our forums and many folks are sharing their love, thoughts and opinions on the event. We thought we'd create one designated area to collect all of your awesome feedback to share with HQ about the event and our beloved Karl.


If you have some time, please take a moment to respond to the polls posted here as well leave any comments you may have about the event. Feel free to copy & paste here from other threads.

Thanks! :happy:


#1517148 Lert's easy tips for beginners

Posted Lert on Mar 03 2012 - 00:33

I've driven over 15k battles in beta and release combined. During all this time playing the game I've learned a few basic things. Simple rules to keep in mind, that make you a better teamplayer, a more effective player and that make you not suck.

Rule the first: Shoot the red tanks. The green ones aren't ripe yet. Under no circumstances is it ok to shoot a green tank. It doesn't matter how often he shot you, what he said about your mother, what crap day you had at work or how many entitlement issues you have: do NOT shoot green tanks. There are plenty of red ones (and a few blue ones every now and then) to go around.

Rule the second: Never block someone from backing up. This means giving people space. It doesn't matter what tank you're in and what tank he's in, he got to that spot first and as such you don't have a claim on it. He might need to back up to save his bacon, give him the room to do so.

Rule the third: Don't all commit to the same side of the map. You have a minimap for a reason. If you're in a group of 12 tanks heading to the east side of the map, it might be a good idea to stop, turn around and go west instead.

Rule the fourth: Be polite. Someone saves your sorry ass? Tell him thank you. You accidentally hit a friendly tank without meaning to? Tell him sorry. You see someone almost dead while you still have full health? Take a shot for him, allow him to get to safety. Two guns at 40% will do twice as much damage as one gun at 100%. Don't call people noob, or whatever your favorite insult is.

Rule the fifth: Kill or Cap is all the same. There is no super secret mega special bonus for killing all tanks or winning by cap. Only a tiny one for wiping out all tanks, but this one is too small to worry about and not worth the extra risk and time. There is only individual XP for killing or capping, but it all evens out in the end. The swift win is always, Always, ALWAYS preferable to the risky, drawn out hunt.

Rule the sixth: Know your job. If you're the small fish in a big pond, your job is not to charge the enemy's big fish. Your job is either find the enemy's big fish without him seeing you, annoying the enemy's big fish by taking pot shots at his tracks while your big fish is drawing his attention, or keeping the enemy's small fish off of your team's big fish's back. All these jobs award XP and credits, and all these jobs help your team win.

Rule the seventh: Driving straight into the enemy base at match start isn't scouting. This is known as suicide scouting, and in most cases is completely useless. All you'll do is tell your team where the enemy tanks are at match start, but we already know where they are: at their spawn. What we need to know is where they're at, 2 minutes after match start. The quick-and-dirty 'rule' for scouting is, creep forward through bushes until you light something up, then back off. People whine about invisible tanks? BE the invisible tank.

Rule the eight: It's a game. This should be rule the first. Way too many people forget about this simple but oh-so-important rule. World of Tanks is a GAME. It's not serious business. It's internet tanks. The price of gas won't go up when you have a bad match. Your girlfriend won't leave you if you die early on with 0 kills. Children in africa won't go less hungry if you have a good round. It's a game, nothing more.

Rule the ninth: Use the camoflage / spotting system to your advantage. Sit behind bushes, not inside them. Sit near bushes, not too far away from them. The more bushes between you and the enemy, the more difficulty he will have to spot you.

Rule the tenth: Remember that it's a team game. Not a singleplayer game. There's nothing wrong with dying if it helps your team closer to the win. There is nothing wrong with sacrificing yourself to block that enemy heavy from defending his cap. There is nothing wrong with taking a few shots to protect your teammates. If it helps achieve a better strategic position for your team, if it helps your team win, do it.

Rule the eleventh: Just because someone has 0 kills doens't mean that he's useless. Someone who knocks 99% health off of 15 tanks will have 0 kills, but be far, far from useless. Kills matter, but damage done matters just as much.

Rule the twelfth: There is no such thing as killstealing. To 'steal' something implies ownership in the first place. Ok, so, you did 99% damage to that tank when someone else finished him off. This is a GOOD thing. It means one less enemy tank, it means you get 99% of the XP for that tank's demise, and it means you don't have to wait yet another reload cycle before engaging the next enemy tank. It's a win-win for all. If I've knocked 99% off of that big mean enemy king tiger and you have a shot at him? Take the shot. By all means, kill that tank. I want you to.

Rule the thirteenth: Focus your fire. Don't spread your fire out. Five tanks at 20% will do five times the damage that one tank at 100% will do. If four tanks are fighting four tanks, the team that focuses their fire on the same target before moving to the next will always, Always win.

Rule the fourteenth: Know your tank. Don't try to hold a flank in a paper armored vehicle. Don't try to rush in a slow vehicle. Don't try to scout in a big-ass vehicle without camo. Don't sit and snipe with an inaccurate gun. Know where your tank sits in the 'holy triumvirate' of mobility, armor and firepower. Play according to your tank's strengths, while guarding for it's weaknesses. You've got a lot of armor? Spearhead the assault. You're tiny but fast? Run interference and scout. You're highly accurate with good pen, but low armor? Sit back and support. Know what guns your armor can deflect, and what armor your gun can defeat. (Thanks to anna_tankgirl and KFAJ)

Rule the fifteenth: Don't be the easy target. If you sit in the open, you die. If you drive in a straight line at a constant speed, you die. If the enemy has two tanks to shoot at: your teammate playing peek-a-boo behind cover and you next to him in the open, you die. Don't be the easy target. Make yourself as hard to hit as possible, at the very least harder than the guy near you. There is no shame in using cover, there is no shame in sitting back and sniping, there is no shame in backing up after taking your shot. Real men fight in the open, but smart men live long enough to destroy the tank that killed the 'real' man and win the match.

I hope this thread helps.

#767451 Japanese Tank Tree & Guns Discussion

Posted arisaka38 on Jul 31 2011 - 17:02

Revised 2012/10/10
Remove 140t heavy
Add tier 10 MT
revise  TD line
Add tier 5 LT
and revise LT line
Removed "Type3 15-cm Tank Gun"
Added "Type "Ge" Experimental 75-mm Anti-Tank Gun"
Added American penetration data report for below guns
  • Naval Type 96 25-mm Anti-Aircraft Machine Gun
  • Type94 37-mm Tank Gun
  • Type100 37-mm Tank Gun
  • Type1 37-mm Tank Gun
  • Type1 47-mm Tank Gun
  • Type94 7-cm Tank Gun
  • Type90 Field Gun
  • Type91 10-cm Howitzer
  • Type96 15-cm Howitzer
previous edit
Hi I'm one of the WoT player from Japan.
I'm very interested in Japanese tank tree, and now I suggest new Japanese tank tree with armaments plan.

Also I had posted Japanese tank tree suggestion in beta.
At researching the Japanese tank tree, I have noticed that the information of Japanese tank guns are very limited on the web, especially in non-Japanese source. The armaments are very important for tank tree discussion. It's not too much to say that a gun performance decides tank's tier.
When you discuss Japanese tank tree, Its historical gun may looks very weak. But by searching armaments, its potentional armaments brings another vision. It might help discussion.
1.Japanese Tank Tree & Guns Plan
2.Historical Japanses tank gun list
3.Supplementary:Non-Tank Guns

1.Japanese Tank Tree & Guns Plan
At first, I attached revised My Japanese tank tree plan.
Revised 2012/10/10
Posted Image
As you look at these caliber, Japanese tanks seems to be not too weak. Isn't it?
Most guns will not well known. So I added descriptions below. Furthermore, This tree contains non-historical mounting to fill lacking positions. Some of these guns are not tank gun in history. I also shows these non-tank gun's detail as Supplementary.
previous tree

2.Historical Japanses tank gun list
Second, I explain  every single guns detail. This list is toooooooooo long, so you may not read without coffee  http://cdn-frm-us.wargaming.net/wot/us/4.1/style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif

3.Supplementary:Non-Tank Guns
As above stated, Japanese army lacks some class of guns, like 90mm and 120mm and others. But these class guns may have needed for game balance. So I added this supplementary. As alternatives of these lacked class, I listed some non-tank guns below. These guns are not planned to mount on tanks in history. Also they are not simply replacable structurally in contrast to some of above guns. But if game-balancing demands these class guns, below guns are considerable...
Even though I add non-historical guns, Japanese SPG lacks long 15cm class and 20cm class guns. It is easy to put Type89 15-cm cannon(L/40) on "Ji-Ro" or "Ho-Chi". But it is too non-historical. I suggest DPS fighting style with super long 10-cm cannon.


#4978188 Why there is no real hacking in WoT

Posted Lert on Jul 19 2013 - 19:03

(Posted with moderator's approval)

Anyone who's spent some time on the world of tanks forum will be familiar with so-called 'hackusations', people accusing others of hacks because they saw something they didn't understand. The more experienced and technically savvy WoT players will always reply with 'there are no hacks'. But ... Why aren't there hacks for WoT?

Well, first we need to look at what a hack actually is.

A hack is a modification to game files that would give the hacker a tangible, unfair advantage over honest players. Something like a speed-hack, where the hacker can move faster, or a reload hack where he doesn't need to reload his gun anymore. Something like a hitpoint hack where he'll never run out of hitpoints, or a rate of fire hack where the hacker can shoot faster than an honest player. These are all hacks.

What aren't hacks are things like reload timers - WoT already has a built-in reload timer, the bar that gradually fills until your shell is loaded. Also not a hack is something like the 'last known position' mod that shows a greyed-out icon on the minimap for a tank that vanishes. Anyone with enough minimap awareness would already know where that tank was when it was last seen, anyways. These are all just mods.

So, to differentiate: a hack actively modifies core game files and tank-balance stats, while a mod uses already available information and presents it to the player in a more transparent way.

Now, to actually hack the game, IE actively modify core game files and tank-balance stats, one would need to have access to these files. In some online games like some of the famous shooters, this is relatively easy to do because the core game files are stored on the local client, and the server itself just serves as a matchmaking lobby. If, for example, your gun normally has a 10 second reload, but you modify the core game files so that it has a 2 second reload, the server will blindly accept this, since it in and of itself has no concept of how long your gun should take to load. This is called 'client side'. Compare this to a safe in your home with your money in it. You can tell your bank you've got two million in your safe and they wouldn't be able to tell you otherwise.

World of Tanks works very differently. World of Tanks is what's called 'server side'. This means that all the important calculations (like armor penetration, hitpoints, visibility, reload, etc) are done on the server. Therefore if a hacker tries to fool the server by changing his reload stat from 10 seconds to 2, the server will just go "lolnope" and keep the reload at 10 seconds. After all, the server's files say that the reload is 10 seconds, and the server dictates how long your gun takes to reload. Compare this to all your money being in your bank-account. You can tell your bank "But there's 2 million on there, really!" but all they'd need to do is check their own files to see you don't have 2 million.

From this follows that you can not download a hack and install it on your local client. Your local client doesn't determine anything important, it just does what the server tells it to do. Any attempt to actually hack the game at the local client level will simply cause the server to go "denied". Compare this to ringing up your bank and going "My bank account now has 2 million on it" in your best Jedi voice. The bank will simply know better and ignore you.

So, in order to hack the game, you'd need to remotely hack into the World of Tanks server, go through its firewalls and modify the game files stored thereon. Alright, let's assume for a moment that you're a hacker of sufficient skill to get into the World of Tanks server itself.

Then you'd run into the problem that the files themselves are protected and can't just be modified by an external source.

But, let's assume for a moment that you're a hacker of incredible skill, and you somehow manage to get around the protection. You want your M4 Sherman to have 10000 hitpoints, 500mm frontal armor, 1000 damage per shot and an invisibility cloak. Alright, you modify the files, and you're now the proud owner of an M4 Sherman with 10k hitpoints, 500mm frontal armor, 1000 damage per shot and an invisibility cloak. And so is everyone else who has an M4 Sherman. Since everyone uses the same core game files on the server, any change to them is going to affect all the tanks of the same type across the entire server. So, this wouldn't work either.

Ok, so .. Imagine you're a hacker of absolute biblical skill who can somehow hack the game files to the extent where only your M4 Sherman has those inflated stats. Congratulations, you've now left a flashing neon sign pointing directly at your game client, with your IP address and login info attached, that says "I'm a hacker, permaban me!" .. After all, the modified files point to your Sherman, and not someone else's.

Ok, so that doesn't work either. So, imagine you're the absolute GOD of hacking, you're so incredibly awesome at hacking that cutting through the pentagon's firewalls is something you do as a warmup before breakfast, banks across the world pay you to not hack their systems, and .. somehow .. you manage to change the game files on the server so that your fake internet pixel tank is stronger, nobody else's is and it's untraceable to your own account ....

.... until the next time the server does a tiny little check for modified files and simply changes everything back, forcing you to start all over again.

So, yes, while theoretically it is possible for World of Tanks to be hacked, it's 'possible' only in the same way that it's possible to walk / swim from New York City to Timbuktu and back again, for a loaf of bread. Theoretically 'possible' but simply doesn't happen because nobody is that good, and nobody is going to bother going through all that effort and risk for so little return-on-investment.

"But this website says it has a hack I can download that gives me 10 million gold and all the tanks unlocked!"

Remember where I said the game is server side? Even if that supposed 'hack' wasn't a trojan or a key logger, the server would still go "Nuh uh, you don't have 10 million gold, you have 0 gold - and you haven't unlocked all those tanks yet either". And then send a polite little message to the mods of a hack-attempt from your client with your IP address and your login info with a CC to whatever law-enforcement agency deals with this kind of crime in your area of the world.

"But they have a little video and screenshots and everything!"

Yes, because screenshots can't be doctored and videos can't be faked, right? That downloadable hack is guaranteed to be a trojan, a virus or a key logger. It's guaranteed to be malware.

"But there are hacks in <Insert other game here> so there can be hacks in here, too!"

That other game has client-side calculations and the server simply takes what the client tells it as truth. Anything important in World of Tanks (Gold, camouflage system, reload times, armor penetration, shell count, tank movement, spotting system, etc etc etc etc) is calculated by the server.

"But that guy clearly hacked! He did <X> while there was no way for <X> to be possible!"

Anyone who's spent time on the forums knows these posts. In my experience, every time this is claimed, it comes down to the poster's lack of understanding of game mechanics. He encounters someone who does understand the system and knows how to use it to his advantage, causing the hackuser to run to the forums complaining about hacks.

In making their game server side and simply by virtue of being merely a fake internet pixel tank game and therefore uninteresting for 'l33t pro hackers' (after all, what glory is there from fake internet tanks to warrant the real and significant risk of getting caught and sent to jail?) Wargaming has made as close to an unhackable online game as is possible in this day and age.

#2628729 Lert's thread of 'Duh', or 'MSPaint schematics explaining gam...

Posted Lert on Sep 11 2012 - 15:40

Once again I saw some noobs doing stuff that made me facepalm. A King Tiger with 38% win rate and 510 efficiency for example, being more of a liability to his own team than the enemy. And what does a Lert do when frustrated by noobs? Why, he makes MSPaint schematics and posts a guide explaining some basic things. I've done that before, I'll probably keep doing it.

These things should be 'duh' to most experienced players out there, and this thread isn't meant for them, it's meant for beginners who are still trying to understand basic gameplay mechanics.

Ok, let's get started:

Item the first: "What is that part of the tank called, and should I shoot it?"

First a front view of a generic MSPaint tank with bright colors to annoy the goths and emos:

- The blue bits are the tracks. Shooting here will probably knock the track off, but very likely not do hitpoint damage.
- The red bit is the upper glacis. This is usually the second strongest part of the tank. Only shoot here when you're sure you can pen.
- The green bit is the lower glacis. This is much weaker armored than the upper glacis. It's a good idea to shoot here. You're much more likely to pen and do hitpoint damage than any other bit.
- The purple bit is the gun mount. Shooting here is very unlikely to do hitpoint damage. But a good hit with HE has a chance of knocking his gun out.
- The pink bit is the gun mantlet. This is the thickest armor on the tank. Don't shoot here.
- The dark red bit is the turret itself. This is usually fairly strong armor. Shoot here only if you don't have a shot at the lower glacis.

Side view:

- The yellow bit is the hull. Shooting here has a very good chance of doing hitpoint damage. Shoot here.
- The green bits are the drive sprocket and idler wheel. Shooting these will probably knock the track off but not always reliably do hitpoint damage.
- The blue bit is the tracks. Shooting here has a small chance of knocking the tracks off, as well as a chance of not doing hitpoint damage because it acts as spaced armor, which I will explain below. Don't shoot here, unless you don't have a better shot.
- The red bit is the turret. Shooting here has a very good chance of doing hitpoint damage as well as knocking crew and / or ammo racks out. This is a very good place to shoot.
- The purple bit is the first few feet of the gun. It's a tricky shot, but shooting here has a chance of knocking the gun out, but without doing hitpoint damage. Only shoot here if no better shot is available.
- The gray bit is the barrel. This doesn't have a damage hitbox. Don't bother shooting it, it can't get hurt anyways.

Item the second: "How to not be a [edited]"

Imagine the following situation:

Teammate 1 is playing peek-a-boo with the big, bad enemy tank.

- Teammate 2 has parked right behind teammate 1, blocking 1's retreat. Teammate 2 is a [edited]. Don't be teammate 2.
- Teammate 3 has parked on the far side of teammate 1. Unlike teammate 2, teammate 3 is not a [edited]. However, the moment teammate 1 backs up (and he will, if he's smart) teammate 3 is out in the open for the whole enemy team to kill. So, while not a [edited], teammate 3 is in fact not very smart.
- Teammate 4 is neither a [edited]nor dumb: he is in fact very smart. Why? He's going around the building to attack the enemy in the side. This is called 'flanking'. Flanking is good. We like people who flank. Flankers win.

Item the third: "How do I camo?"

For the purpose of this demonstration, the enemy is off to the left of this picture. The three little tanklets have all found themselves a bush ("This is my bush, there are many like it but this one is mine") with intent to get the camoflage bonus that bushes give. However:

- Tank 1 has his corners sticking out of the bush, and is therefore not camoflaged.
- Tank 2 is only partially behind the bush, part of him is visible alongside the bush. He is therefore not camoflaged.
- Tank 3 is completely hidden behind the bush, therefore he does get the camoflage bonus.

Bushes only work if you're completely obscured by them.

Item the fourth: "I liek spacy armor"

Yes. Yes you do. We all do. As long as we're the ones who have it. Not when we're the ones shooting at it. Observe:

Many tanks have spaced armor. Spaced armor is a fancy way of saying "Two layers of stuff with some air between them". A shot that hits the outer layer of armor and penetrates still has to punch through the inner layer of armor as well before getting to the juicy, splatty, gooey bits inside the tin can. However, since it's lost some of its penetration on the outer layer, the shell will have some difficulty punching through the inner layer, as in my example.

When this happens, you'll see a penetration decal on your target, but hear 'that one bounced', and not do hitpoint damage. No, it's not a bug, it's spaced armor.

Many tanks have spaced armor, in many different locations. Learning these will go a long way in making you a more effective player.
Finally, remember when in item the first I said that tracks act as spaced armor? That's why with side-shots you're less likely to do actual hitpoint damage when shooting the tracks, instead of the hull directly. You have to punch through the tracks and then also through the hull, to do damage. Therefor, only go for track shots if you don't have a better shot available.

Item the fifth: "Lol sloped armor"

We all know (well, most of us) that sloped armor is more effective than unsloped armor. But why? Here's why:

Two armor plates of identical thickness. One at 90 degrees, one at 45 degrees. As you can see, the effective thickness (IE, the amount of armor the shell has to punch through) is significantly more with the angled plate. This is how a 100mm plate can stop a 200mm pen shell, if it's angled enough.

How to make effective use of slopes? Well, first you need to know what your tank looks like. This might sound silly, but it means being aware of your own tank's angles. Then during combat you present your toughest angles to the enemy tank with the biggest gun. It's as simple as that. With some tanks (Like Tiger for example) this means angling your hull ~30 degrees towards incoming fire. With other tanks (Like IS-3 for example) this means pointing your nose straight at the enemy. It's as simple as that.

How to defeat slopes? Shoot at the least sloped bit. Always be aware of the relative angle of the enemy tank, and know what his tank looks like. Be aware of his angles. Then shoot at the bit that's the flattest relative to your position. Ofcourse there are exceptions, but this seems to be a good rule-of-thumb for beginning and intermediate players.

Item the sixth: "Apply explosion to tank = win?"

Most of the time you'll be shooting AP shells. Atleast, unless you're an artillery driver. The 'other' type of shell is the HE shell, or High Explosive shell. It works rather differently from an AP shell.

HE shells usually have very low pen, but very high damage. The low pen means that it's usually not likely for your HE shell to punch through the enemy armor, just like in my example.

When a HE shell explodes on the enemy's armor, it loses half its damage to thin air. The remaining half is applied to the tank. However: said damage still needs to bleed through the enemy's armor (RE: dotted yellow line in my example) before it's applied to the hitpoints or modules / crew inside the tin can. For every mm of armor that it has to bleed through, it loses damage. This means that your shiny 950 dam HE shell can do a pathetic 25 damage to thick-skinned enemy tanks: 450 damage is lost into the ether, and of the remaining 450 damage, 425 is lost while trying to bleed through the armor.

Why use HE at all, then? Some guns (so-called howitzers, or 'derp' guns) have a relatively low shell velocity, and thus armor penetration with AP. You can recognise these because they have a very short barrel, and relatively low penetration values for the AP shell, compared to the HE shell. For example, on the KV-2, the 152mm has an AP pen of 110mm and a HE pen of 83mm. This is a typical example of a derp gun. In fact, the KV-2's 152 is the ur-derp. The 107 on the same tank has an AP pen of 167mm and a HE pen of 54mm. This is a typical high-velocity anti-tank gun. The 152 works best when shooting primarily HE, the 107 works best when shooting primarily AP shells. Look at the relative pen levels on your tank to see what shell you should be using.

That's it for now. I'll add more if I think of more, or if someone asks me to do more and I can be arsed to.

#7038671 9.0.1 update coming

Posted jinxx71 on Apr 22 2014 - 20:00

I want to update the community on the status up the next patch for World of Tanks. As you all know 9.0 is an update sets the stage for all the updates for the rest of the year. There were major functional changes that had to occur in this update to make that possible. This unfortunately led to some of the instability in form of game crashes and issues with framerate.


We have already identified some of the issues and currently have a patch in QA testing. It will address many of the game crashes and some of the framerate issues. We want to get this patch out as soon as possible without introducing new problems.


The current ESTIMATED timeframe for this patch is this Friday. It is subject to change depending on what is found by QA, but I wanted to make sure you are as informed as possible. If this estimate changes I will make another update. I will also update you if a second patch is required.


We apologize for the disruption this update may have caused you, however we look forward to the advances that this patch will allow.


Thank you all for your patience,


Joshua Morris

World of Tanks Producer - North America


Posted Swizsedtoast on Sep 09 2013 - 03:43

So I made this cuz waiting for CWs is boring.
If you like it, thread bumps and +1 are appreciated.
Thanks for your support, I'll poop out more helpful reviews/guides



Update: ADVANCED pike nose angling

Update: Delivery for the requests for more detailed PIke Nose angling
Btw I'm too lazy to edit the 180mm thing. Let's just say it gets the point across that your armor is ~doubled. Any really  it'll be so on a sloped hull so combined with auto-bounce it's more than doublely good (like angled 120mm upper hull of T-54/121 can bounce 300 pen easily)



#6769367 Policy on Prohibited Modifications

Posted Laera on Mar 12 2014 - 22:47



We all love World of Tanks. We also love seeing the unique things you create through the application of mods like original garage designs, vehicle skins, or new types of color filters. It's one of the many facets that help World of Tanks stand apart from other MMO's.


However, there are mods that give players a distinct advantage when used in matches, both public & competitive. Mods such as these are not allowed as they offer an unfair advantage to players using them.


Starting today we're taking steps to ensure that every time you hop on the battlefield in your favorite vehicle, you'll be given as fair a chance for victory as possible -- we're tightening restrictions on all mods that give players a statistical advantage over their opponent.


Players found to be using illegal mods (as detailed below) will be penalized based on the severity of the infraction. We're also actively looking into more effective ways in which to monitor the use of banned mods. 


Modifications to the World of Tanks client (and other products) that provide an unfair advantage against other players will warrant a restriction upon the players account.


The type of restriction depends on the severity of the modification infraction.


  • 3D-Skins with Display of Modules and Crew Positions
  • Removal of trees, leaves and bushes or change transparency
  • "Lens scope" modification that removes tree leaves and alters bush transparency around the aiming reticle.
  • Script automated use of manually activated equipment. I.E. Automatic use of Manual Fire Extinguisher
  • Modified Tracer Display (case-by-case basis)
  • Free camera
  • Laser Reticle (red line starting from the gun barrel)
  • Mini Map modifications that passively provide information to the individual player without the use of active teamwork.


Visual Examples:

  • 3D-Skins with Display of Modules and Crew Positions
    • Examples:








  • Removal of trees, leaves and bushes or change transparency
    • Examples:

      • Spoiler


      • Spoiler


  • Modified Tracer Display (case-by-case basis)

    • Example:

      • Spoiler


  • Free camera

    • Example:

      • Spoiler


  • Laser Reticle  (red line starting from the gun barrel)
    • Example:


  • Mini Map modifications that passively provide information to the individual player without the use of active teamwork
    • Example: