61 replies to this topic

[Silty]

Well, I went into the IS-3 thinking it would be better than the IS in every aspect.  Not true!  I'm usually good with Soviet heavies, but I barely managed a mid-40s winrate with the IS-3.  Something went terribly wrong!  Well, it is a great tank due to the firepower, speed, and frontal armor, but it does have numerous disadvantages, when compared to the IS.  There seems to be a lack of threads about this, so I made one.

Anyways, I realized that the IS-3 has several important disadvantages compared to the IS:
-less gun depression.
-turns a lot slower
-fuel tanks closer to the sides of the tank
-alpha damage severely outclassed by TD peers
-weird front armor layout
-ammo racked more often

So, I noticed that were a few things that it couldn't do nearly as efficiently anymore:
-circle tanks.  On top of the agility penalty, it will also get lit on fire a lot more when shot in the side, so it can be really risky.  This is due to the much worse layout of the fuel tanks.
-fight on hills.  The gun depression makes this a lot more difficult than the IS.  You have to approach the crest of the hill from a very gentle incline, or risk being tracked then penetrated in the lower glacis repeatedly, while being unable to shoot back.
-peekaboo.  You kill your front armor's angle when you try and peek out from a corner.  The IS gains armor when playing peekaboo, the IS-3 loses it.
-get out of trouble.  The armor is only really only designed to take hits from the front, and turning around and retreating can be really dangerous.
-lolstomp same-tier TDs.  Tier 8 TDs get a huge boost in terms of firepower, compared to the same-nation ones on tier 7.  They pose a major threat to you, frontally.  Not really a fault of the tank, but still important compared to the IS.

The accuracy is certainly great, and my personal hit rate in it is 86% - higher than any of my tanks, I think.  But I seem to be dying in it very quickly, before I can shoot a lot of tanks, so maybe I am playing too aggressively.

Well, it would be nice if you all posted any other of its drawbacks, that you noticed.  I hope I can actually start winning at least half my games, now that I'm realizing its limitations.  I hope you guys found this useful, as well.  For anyone on the IS, and planning to get the IS-3.


Edit: added ammo rack disadvantage, cleared up alpha damage disadvantage

[JohnGaltCobraCommander]

Hmm I have found the IS-3 to outclass its peers very well. I play mostly pubs in it and manage a 53% win rate in it and I am a pretty bad player. If you find yourself having to "turn around and retreat" in your IS-3 then you are doing something wrong. This is a great combination of frontal armor and speed allowing you to brawl when on top and flank when you are not.

[Garnett101st]

Alpha outclassed by piers? Its the ONLY heavy tier 8 tank that does 390 damage...  IS3 is a really good tank when played aggressive, Sitting back like a KT would do, Not so much.

[Bigbxmach23]

-Pike
-BL-9 lolage
-Fast
-Armor
-good turning rate
-BL-9 lolage (x2)
-noobs who dont know where too shoot you

^ good reasons

Bad reasons:

BL9 no accuracy

[JohnGaltCobraCommander]

 Bigbxmach23, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:52, said:

Bad reasons:

BL9 no accuracy

Which can easily be fixed by using a GLD and Vert Stab

[Silty]

 Garnett101st, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:51, said:

Alpha outclassed by piers? Its the ONLY heavy tier 8 tank that does 390 damage...  IS3 is a really good tank when played aggressive, Sitting back like a KT would do, Not so much.

I mean, outclassed by TDs.  The ISU 152 gets 750 alpha.  Meanwhile, the IS's alpha is not outclassed by anything on its tier, unless you count the Su152 derp.  But that still does less damage than the BL10, most of the time.

 Bigbxmach23, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:52, said:

-Pike
-BL-9 lolage
-Fast
-Armor
-good turning rate
-BL-9 lolage (x2)
-noobs who dont know where too shoot you

^ good reasons

Bad reasons:

BL9 no accuracy

Turn rate is worse than IS, and pike is annoying when trying to peekaboo.

[VP_Cheney]

 Bigbxmach23, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:52, said:

-Pike
-BL-9 lolage
-Fast
-Armor
-good turning rate
-BL-9 lolage (x2)
-noobs who dont know where too shoot you

^ good reasons

Bad reasons:

BL9 no accuracy

BigB hit the nail on the head. Silty you are doing it wrong but I still love you! <3

[Dondoh]

I gotta agree that the lack of depression is depressing. Not a hill tanks at all. Good point about the peekaboo and the pike too.
Like the tank a lot though.

The IS seems underbilled and the IS3 seems overbilled but I am not fully upgraded yet, so I have to temper my judgement.

[Silty]

The point of the thread isn't to say that the IS-3 is a bad tank - it certainly isn't.

I'm just trying to list all of the limitations it has, so people don't suck with it when they first get it, like I did.

[Bigbxmach23]

 Silty, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:56, said:

The point of the thread isn't to say that the IS-3 is a bad tank - it certainly isn't.

I'm just trying to list all of the limitations it has, so people don't suck with it when they first get it, like I did.

OP-3

[JohnGaltCobraCommander]

 Silty, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:56, said:

The point of the thread isn't to say that the IS-3 is a bad tank - it certainly isn't.

I'm just trying to list all of the limitations it has, so people don't suck with it when they first get it, like I did.

Well I think everyone is pointing out it shoudnt have those limitations if used right. First don't play peek a boo as a first choice, your armor is best when head on. Second, use the things speed in order to maximize potential. Get good positioning, let the Bl-9 do the work for your.

As for hull down you have a valid point, but we have to leave the American tanks something ehh?

[Okeano]

I certainly don't remember IS bouncing any shots from tier 7 heavies, while IS-3 will bounce tier 8 shots that hits the upper glacis. You can also take Low and KT out through face hugging.

[eBayNoob]

 Silty, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:42, said:

-alpha damage severely outclassed by peers
-get out of trouble.  The armor is only really only designed to take hits from the front, and turning around and retreating can be really dangerous.

Avg. Damage AP:
IS3 bl9: 390
Tiger II 105 kwk46 L68: 320
T32 105: 320
AMX 50 100 100mm: 300

So it actually outclasses its peers in alpha damage.

The side armor above the tracks is amazing because of its angle. This will get you bounces if your opponents don't aim low. You aren't a medium so you shouldn't really be trying to circle opponents anyway. You don't have the traverse rate to pull that off. You do have decent speed though which you can use to flank when appropriate.


A weakness you didn't mention is a tendency to get ammoracked more often. The sticky at the top of this board has lots of good info:
http://forum.worldof...pic/45199-is-3/

[Hindric]

@Silty BL-9 yet? The gun's a beast for its tier. Every TD for its tier has a strong gun because thats what they're built for! The German and US lines gotta work with their crappy 240/320 dmg heavy tank guns. Russian guns have it the best in peek-a-boo fights with their 390 dmg lolcannons.

 Bigbxmach23, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:52, said:

-Pike
-BL-9 lolage
-Fast
-Armor
-good turning rate
-BL-9 lolage (x2)
-noobs who dont know where too shoot you

^ good reasons

Bad reasons:

BL9 no accuracy

Still have no fudging idea where to shoot the IS-3 when given a frontal shot aside from the lower glacis but that works with every god damn tank in the game.

Eh, the bad reason is bad by German standard but if you started with .37/.36 of the American 105mm, its a workable to aim with it. The killer part of it is the aim time for it to shrink and usually when you can fire, your target will be backing off and hiding til their next shot.

[Silty]

 _Loner_, on Mar 06 2012 - 22:00, said:

Avg. Damage AP:
IS3 bl9: 390
Tiger II 105 kwk46 L68: 320
T32 105: 320
AMX 50 100 100mm: 300

So it actually outclasses its peers in alpha damage.

Yeah, like I already mentioned, I accidentally made it unclear that I meant "in comparison to TDs" when I said alpha damage.  The TDs severely outclass it in alpha damage, while the IS matches TDs in alpha damage.

 _Loner_, on Mar 06 2012 - 22:00, said:

The side armor above the tracks is amazing because of its angle. This will get you bounces if your opponents don't aim low. You aren't a medium so you shouldn't really be trying to circle opponents anyway. You don't have the traverse rate to pull that off. You do have decent speed though which you can use to flank when appropriate.

Well, I could certainly circle opponents in my IS, which is what I'm trying to say.

 _Loner_, on Mar 06 2012 - 22:00, said:

A weakness you didn't mention is a tendency to get ammoracked more often. The sticky at the top of this board has lots of good info:
http://forum.worldof...pic/45199-is-3/

Indeed, there's also that.  Thank you.

 Hindric, on Mar 06 2012 - 22:02, said:

Still have no fudging idea where to shoot the IS-3 when given a frontal shot aside from the lower glacis but that works with every god damn tank in the game.

The KT is annoying to pen when angled.  If the IS-3 is angled, you just shoot whichever part of the front armor is facing you; if not, you shoot the lower glacis.  So basically, the KT can strengthen its armor by angling, while the IS-3 is just stuck with what it has, as long as you know which part of the frontal armor to shoot.

 JohnGaltCobraCommander, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:59, said:

As for hull down you have a valid point, but we have to leave the American tanks something ehh?

Oh, I don't mean defensive hull down positions.  I mean the gun depression is so bad that it has trouble fighting around hills at all.  You want to either stay away from them altogether, or be extremely careful with them.

[Flatulencia]

 Garnett101st, on Mar 06 2012 - 21:51, said:

Alpha outclassed by piers? Its the ONLY heavy tier 8 tank that does 390 damage...  IS3 is a really good tank when played aggressive, Sitting back like a KT would do, Not so much.

QFT

Also, soviets heavy deals 390 dmg since tier 6, when other nation have to wait till tier 9.

The only real problem is the ammo rack, too many ammo racks (front, side, whole turret) so your reload is allways *ucked in every single match. <- balance :s

[Silty]

 Flatulencia, on Mar 06 2012 - 22:44, said:

QFT

Also, soviets heavy deals 390 dmg since tier 6, when other nation have to wait till tier 9.

Still, what matters is that you can no longer trade shot for shot with a same tier TD and come out ahead.  The IS-3 falls significantly behind the Ferdinand and ISU in alpha damage, while the IS does not fall behind its TD peers.  This is not a limitation of the tank, but the reality which it faces on the battlefield.

[hoom]

I don't get the -ve reps.
This comes across as a pretty neutral statement of fact.
You can play around the limitations & even turn several of them into strengths in the right circumstances but they are legitimate limitations compared to IS.

One thing: Peekaboo.
Try coming out at nearly 90 degrees.
Your pike can be very effective at that angle & you will expose only a small bit of hull side because of both the slope & forward turret.

[Flatulencia]

just think what you just said.

You wanna trade shoots with your tank vs a tank destroyer...

Dont trade shoots, flank them, track them, spot them for arty. Is a tank destroyer and you are in a tank.


Also listen to me, true champion tank companies use IS-3, no tiger II, VK4502 or T-32. Only IS-3 for heavy.

[Dominatus]

The disadvantages are almost non-existant, but do exist I think. BL-9 is of course a HUGE improvement over the PoS D-25T. .005 accuracy and 50mm pen makes a huge difference. It's also slightly faster, and great at taking hits from the front. Turn speed was never an issue for me, as the thing's an assualt tank. Spaced armour on the sides also helps a lot.

However, the pike does lead to issues when doing anything other than attacking though, and the lack of any ability to angle does hurt. The 0 gun depression is a huge drawback as well. On the other hand though, the critical damage is kind of odd. I personally feel it takes much less crits than the IS. Driver fatalities are about equal, but gunner deaths seem much lower to me. Main gun damage is not as common as well. Ammo rack on the other hand, I feel that I get hit there less, but that whenever I do, my whole tank goes nuclear.