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Sherman firefly


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SovietArms #1 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 03:54

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If the devs are going to include the Sherman firefly in the british tree , what will they do with the research path?
They can't have american tanks in the british tree , and the firefly was based off of the original american M4 Sherman design , (So I believe) . The brits did not make the sherman , and there were no british tanks before it which ended up leading to the sherman. My guess is that the sherman firefly would become a british premium tank which isn't a bad idea. I don't know what tier it would be though...

So what do you guys think?

HOTA_CHATON #2 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:00

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Tier 7 or 8 would probabl be a good place to start.

Comrade_Zhukov #3 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:02

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Mar 29 2012 - 04:00, said:

Tier 7 or 8 would probabl be a good place to start.

It's got a gun comparable to the Panther, but it's still just an Sherman chassis and hull.  I'd put it at 6-7, depending on how they buff/nerf it.  
Also, I believe it's been mentioned its going premium, like the LL Stuart, the PzB2, and the old Hotchkiss

Brawl987 #4 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:13

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I heard otherwise, that it was NOT premium.

1SterlingArcher #5 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:15

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It has been confirmed as a tier VI non-premium.

Quite a while ago, actually.

UnknownChemistry #6 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:16

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I'm kind of hoping it would be tier 6. Assuming that I am correct with my history info, the Firefly would be the same as the M4 with the exception of the gun. Seeing how the gun has a lot of penetration, it would probably be on par with the 88mm found on the VK 3601(H).
Obviously, the two guns aren't the same but it's just something to compare with.

1SterlingArcher #7 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:20

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I guess you missed the part where it was confirmed as a tier VI.

TargetOnTracks #8 Posted Mar 29 2012 - 04:40

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View PostSovietArms, on Mar 29 2012 - 03:54, said:

If the devs are going to include the Sherman firefly in the british tree , what will they do with the research path?
They can't have american tanks in the british tree , and the firefly was based off of the original american M4 Sherman design , (So I believe) . The brits did not make the sherman , and there were no british tanks before it which ended up leading to the sherman. My guess is that the sherman firefly would become a british premium tank which isn't a bad idea. I don't know what tier it would be though...

So what do you guys think?

There is no reason they couldn't create a jump from the American tree to the British tree from the M4 to the Firefly.

Capefear73 #9 Posted Mar 30 2012 - 03:15

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How about making the E4 in the E8 American tree then making the E8 the firefly?

1SterlingArcher #10 Posted Mar 30 2012 - 06:00

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Because the Easy 8 was never used for Firefly conversions.

Only M4A1 (Sherman I) and M4A4 (Sherman V) were used as Fireflies.

The M4A4 should play something similar to the Jumbo, but with the speed of the Lee (Chysler A57 Multibank engine was standard on M4A4, and was the sole reason the hull was longer).

Hellheavytanks #11 Posted Mar 30 2012 - 16:28

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Tier VI Firefly to remove with Premium.

FR4NCH3K #12 Posted Mar 30 2012 - 19:16

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This thread reminded me of Company of Heros, which reminded me of the Kangaroo Carrier, which will probably be the tier 10 heavy for the British tree.

maxman1 #13 Posted Mar 30 2012 - 23:04

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View PostHellheavytanks, on Mar 30 2012 - 16:28, said:

Tier VI Firefly to remove take off with Premium.

In English please? That makes absolutely no sense.

Chaosticket #14 Posted Apr 15 2012 - 00:43

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The Sherman Firefly WASNT an american vehicle. The M4 sherman was american designed, but they also licenced it to be made in Canada. the canadian version, the grizzly is more similar to the Sherman firefly than the M4 sherman.


oh and what he mean is, make the Firefly tier 6, dont make it premium. I agree with that. The Firefly has much more penetration, but also has much lower rate of fire than the 76mm on the ez8 Sherman. Its much more similar to a Tank Destroyer than a medium tank, but it was classifed as medium tank.



as for the gun, the 17 pounder is more similar to the Pershing and Slugger 90mm than the short 88 on the Tiger, and prototype Vk 3601H.

1SterlingArcher #15 Posted Apr 15 2012 - 02:16

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View PostChaosticket, on Apr 15 2012 - 00:43, said:

The Sherman Firefly WASNT an american vehicle. The M4 sherman was american designed, but they also licenced it to be made in Canada. the canadian version, the grizzly is more similar to the Sherman firefly than the M4 sherman.

The Grizzly had the same gun and engine as the M4A1 Sherman. The only differences was thicker armour, greater sloping degree, and a thirteen tooth gear sprocket instead of a seventeen tooth sprocket.

View PostChaosticket, on Apr 15 2012 - 00:43, said:

oh and what he mean is, make the Firefly tier 6, dont make it premium. I agree with that.

I guess you missed the part about it being confirmed as a Tier VI non-premium.

View PostChaosticket, on Apr 15 2012 - 00:43, said:

as for the gun, the 17 pounder is more similar to the Pershing and Slugger 90mm than the short 88 on the Tiger, and prototype Vk 3601H.

It's closer to the 7.5 cm KwK 42 than the 90mm.

_Freddy_ #16 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 22:05

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View PostChaosticket, on Apr 15 2012 - 00:43, said:

The Sherman Firefly WASNT an american vehicle. The M4 sherman was american designed, but they also licenced it to be made in Canada. the canadian version, the grizzly is more similar to the Sherman firefly than the M4 sherman.

Most Fireflys were made from the hulls with modified turrets of Sherman V (M4A4), others were made from Sherman I (M4) and Sherman II (M4A1),

the Grizzly was a Canadian license built and modified M4A1 only a few were modified into Fireflys.

Since all British Fireflys used stock Sherman hulls how are the Grizzly and Firefly more similar to each other than the M4 (bearing in mind they are all very closely related all being versions of the M4).

maxman1 #17 Posted Apr 19 2012 - 00:24

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And there is no evidence that any of the handful of Grizzlies converted to Fireflies even left Canada.

There is definitive proof that none of the Grizzly Fireflies ever saw combat, though.

Chaosticket #18 Posted Apr 19 2012 - 00:36

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I dont know IF any grizzlies were actually made into Fireflys, let alone saw combat. I do know that both the Firefly and Grizzly have been similarly modified, noticeably the distinctive hull armor on the front.

FreeFOXMIKE #19 Posted Apr 19 2012 - 00:45

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Posted Image


The Sherman Firefly was a World War II British variant of the American Sherman tank, fitted with the powerful British 17 pounder anti-tank gun as its main weapon. Originally conceived as a stopgap until future British tank designs came into service, the Sherman Firefly became the most common vehicle with the 17 pounder in World War II.


Though the British expected to have their own new tank models developed soon, British Major George Brighty championed the already-rejected idea of mounting the 17 pounder in the existing Sherman. With the help of Lieutenant Colonel Witheridge and despite official disapproval, he managed to get the concept accepted. This proved fortuitous, as both the Challenger and Cromwell tank designs experienced difficulties and delays.


After the problem of getting the gun to fit in the Sherman's turret was solved, the Firefly was put into production in early 1944, in time to equip Field Marshal Montgomery's forces for the Normandy landings. It soon became highly valued as the only British tank capable of defeating the Panther and Tiger tanks it faced in Normandy at standard combat ranges. In recognition of this, German tank and anti-tank gun crews were instructed to attack Fireflies first. Between 2100 and 2200 were manufactured before production wound down in 1945.


The gun breech itself was also rotated 90 degrees to allow for loading from the left[note 1] rather than from on top.[6] The radio which was mounted in the back of the turret in British tanks had to be moved. An armoured box (a "bustle") was attached to the back of the turret to house the radio. Access was through a large hole cut through the back of the turret.


Posted Image


The complete AP round of a 17 pounder


Posted Image


A Sherman Firefly with countershadowing pattern used to disguise the increased length of the barrel



_Freddy_ #20 Posted Apr 19 2012 - 08:36

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View PostChaosticket, on Apr 19 2012 - 00:36, said:

I dont know IF any grizzlies were actually made into Fireflys, let alone saw combat. I do know that both the Firefly and Grizzly have been similarly modified, noticeably the distinctive hull armor on the front.

The Grizzly was built with a thicker and more sloped Glacis plate based on an M4A1, I have not seen any mention of that being done to a Firefly conversion (based on three different models of M4 with the majority being M4A4)

Heavily modified turret
Modified 17pdr
New gun recoil system
Removal of bow machine gun
New ammunition stowage
New radio

Not seen any mention of additional armour or changes to the glacis plate over the base doner vehicle.