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Maus armor


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Eliminateur #21 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 18:47

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... and that same ~7m long 33KG-shell shooting S-70 BOUNCES a POINT BLANK SHOT (actually, 1m off) to the SIDE TURRET ARMOR of an IS7, unluckily i was so "WTF WTF WTF" that i forgot to screencap(the ding decal was plainly visible) :angry:

FunnyGuy #22 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 18:50

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what r u a troll or something ?
i mean WTF noone can destroy the damn maus under tier 9 u all know that so if the maus would get even more armor than it would be impossible to even penetrate it cause some nolifers will get to that tank in no time
i think its balanced i have a IS-4 and yes i love shoting that big cow ^^ (with mah 130mm) but i also watch my self of being hit by it cause i think it can destroy me faster than i dostroy it
and whats all that about lowering the IS-7's armor he already has a weak one (weaker than IS-4 as most ppl know...) and now u want that they lower it more ?

u are stupid thats all i can say

3cxO #23 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 18:55

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View PostFunnyGuy, on Sep 23 2010 - 18:50, said:

what r u a troll or something ?
i mean WTF noone can destroy the damn maus under tier 9 u all know that so if the maus would get even more armor than it would be impossible to even penetrate it cause some nolifers will get to that tank in no time
i think its balanced i have a IS-4 and yes i love shoting that big cow ^^ (with mah 130mm) but i also watch my self of being hit by it cause i think it can destroy me faster than i dostroy it
and whats all that about lowering the IS-7's armor he already has a weak one (weaker than IS-4 as most ppl know...) and now u want that they lower it more ?

u are stupid thats all i can say

Don't over generalize. 2 tier 8s can destroy a Maus. The turret is laughably slow. This becomes _easier_ if the two tier8s are on voice comms and just coordinate, whenever he tried to get one, the other one gets free reign to shoot. However that will allow his team to gang up on you, but if you manage to survive to the end with a Maus vs 2 t8s, it's hardly a match for the Maus. :)

SpectreHD #24 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 19:28

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View PostPzGrenKdr, on Sep 23 2010 - 16:51, said:

0.5sec longer aimimg is bad, but yeah the S-70 is a little bit better.

It is actually close to 1 second longer.

60/5 = 12 seconds for the IS7.

60/4.62 = 12.98 seconds for the Maus.


It is actually funny that the IS7 gets near fictional stats while the Maus gets its real stats as much as possible. Even funnier that they purposely shaft the speeds of the Tigers. Tiger 1 can go 38km/h. Tiger 2 can go, at its max engine limiter, 34 km/h. Without the limiter, it can go 38 km/h and a max of 41km/h. Furthermore, with its hydraulic powered turret, a Tiger 2 with engines at idle turns its turret 360 degrees in 19 seconds but when the engine is revved up to its max with the limiter, it can turn its turret 360 degrees in 10 seconds. I would like to see the speeds increased but for balance sake, not as much as the speeds in real life.

direwo #25 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 19:35

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IIRC the 75mm coax was to be a KWK 75L42

Hyena #26 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 20:02

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View PostSpectreHD, on Sep 23 2010 - 19:28, said:

It is actually funny that the IS7 gets near fictional stats while the Maus gets its real stats as much as possible. Even funnier that they purposely shaft the speeds of the Tigers. Tiger 1 can go 38km/h. Tiger 2 can go, at its max engine limiter, 34 km/h. Without the limiter, it can go 38 km/h and a max of 41km/h. Furthermore, with its hydraulic powered turret, a Tiger 2 with engines at idle turns its turret 360 degrees in 19 seconds but when the engine is revved up to its max with the limiter, it can turn its turret 360 degrees in 10 seconds. I would like to see the speeds increased but for balance sake, not as much as the speeds in real life.

This sort of crap really pisses me off about this game. Why have stats at all if you just make them up? I know a lot of people have said this game has a massive Russian bias and the more I read into things the more I have to agree. German players have to put up with fighting Russian tanks developed well after the war had ended, using far superior technology and mechanics and yet we are still the ones to have our core tanks (as in most widely known) nerfed for no apparent reason. Aside the fact that with these real world stats the Tiger and KT would be much more formidable, why don't we have them? It makes no sense.

Likewise I fail to understand why the Maus has been so badly nerfed. Check the real world armour stats of a Maus, it's much more than what the WoT devs decided it to be and again.. I can't see why, aside that they didn't want the Maus ever beating an IS-7.

Maus Armour
460 mm (18 in) (in the area of the mantlet)
250 mm (9.8 in) (mantlet)
240 mm (9.4 in) (turret front)
220 mm (8.7 in) (turret side and rear, and hull front)
210 mm (8.3 in) (turret front behind the mantlet)
190 mm (7.5 in) (hull side and rear)

WoT Maus
200/185/160 (Hull)
220/210/210 (Turret)

That's a pretty damn big difference in armour values.

The_Black_Bishop #27 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 20:05

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As a former Maus driver with 240 fights I would like to add my +1 to this post. The Maus is as bad as described here. Undergunned, slow mobility, slow turret traverse, not enough armor (no slope on sides/rear) and not enough hp compared to IS-7 to make any difference.

The Maus should at the minimum get it's real armor-values and get an optional 150mm gun. That is the ONLY way it will ever be competitive with the IS-7.

SpectreHD #28 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 20:15

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View PostWhiteHyena, on Sep 23 2010 - 20:02, said:

This sort of crap really pisses me off about this game. Why have stats at all if you just make them up? I know a lot of people have said this game has a massive Russian bias and the more I read into things the more I have to agree. German players have to put up with fighting Russian tanks developed well after the war had ended, using far superior technology and mechanics and yet we are still the ones to have our core tanks (as in most widely known) nerfed for no apparent reason. Aside the fact that with these real world stats the Tiger and KT would be much more formidable, why don't we have them? It makes no sense.

Likewise I fail to understand why the Maus has been so badly nerfed. Check the real world armour stats of a Maus, it's much more than what the WoT devs decided it to be and again.. I can't see why, aside that they didn't want the Maus ever beating an IS-7.

Maus Armour
460 mm (18 in) (in the area of the mantlet)
250 mm (9.8 in) (mantlet)
240 mm (9.4 in) (turret front)
220 mm (8.7 in) (turret side and rear, and hull front)
210 mm (8.3 in) (turret front behind the mantlet)
190 mm (7.5 in) (hull side and rear)

WoT Maus
200/185/160 (Hull)
220/210/210 (Turret)

That's a pretty damn big difference in armour values.

Can you imagine what they'd do to American tanks when they finally do get released?


View PostRoberbar, on Sep 23 2010 - 20:05, said:

As a former Maus driver with 240 fights I would like to add my +1 to this post. The Maus is as bad as described here. Undergunned, slow mobility, slow turret traverse, not enough armor (no slope on sides/rear) and not enough hp compared to IS-7 to make any difference.

The Maus should at the minimum get it's real armor-values and get an optional 150mm gun. That is the ONLY way it will ever be competitive with the IS-7.

A 150mm gun would be nice but wouldn't the reload be so slow that it would hardly make a difference? And from your experience, it really seems true that people say there is no point to continue the German heavy line past the KT. Even the KT and Tiger is shafted.

The_Black_Bishop #29 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 20:24

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View PostSpectreHD, on Sep 23 2010 - 20:15, said:

A 150mm gun would be nice but wouldn't the reload be so slow that it would hardly make a difference? And from your experience, it really seems true that people say there is no point to continue the German heavy line past the KT. Even the KT and Tiger is shafted.

If the 150mm gun has enough penetration and damage then it would make an IS-7 driver more carefull in their aproach. Right now they can just pour head on with a Maus and expect to come out on top.

Better side and rear armor would make it less vulnerable due to it's enormous size but it will still have the weakspots that good drivers can try to exploit.

I'm not saying this will make the Maus a great tank because you will still have low mobility and turret-traverse, and you will be spotted across half the map. I'm just saying this will improve it a bit and perhaps make it more worthwhile for the masochists out there :-)

Gyarados #30 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 21:01

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The Maus is a huge, gun toting, brick.

EndlessWaves #31 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 21:11

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View PostMadGel0, on Sep 23 2010 - 18:06, said:

with mobility and size it have side and rear armor doesnt matter much

Uh, what? The IS-7 may have the 'best' maneuverability of any tier 9 or 10 tank but that's not saying much when every single tier 8 and below heavy except the KV and KV-3 have better turning and similar or better power to weight than it.

ashdw86 #32 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 21:11

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I bought a Maus after the soft wipe and it really is a big rolling coffin. If I see the other team has no tier 10 or they only have another Maus then I am excited because I can have a good game but if I see IS-7 then I know I will probably lose. I also know that if the enemy have a top tier arty I will probably get nuked as soon as I leave cover.

As it is now the Maus is not a good tank and not fun to play in most situations but I think only some small adjustments are needed; armour needs a small increase, it seems the side and rear are weaker than before the soft wipe, Maus needs armour here because he is so easy to get behind. The other problem is arty is currently over powered and once the developers address this issue a Maus will be a lot easier to play, currently because of it's low speed it is far too easy for arty to hit.

VictorA #33 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 21:53

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from my experience the Maus is as good as the is-7 but 1v1 the is-7 is better.

with an is-7 if you get into some trouble you can easily get ganked by mediums though cause of the rear armour

CommissionerJan #34 Posted Sep 23 2010 - 23:15

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View PostMadGel0, on Sep 23 2010 - 22:41, said:

with the speed and agility of IS7 you shouldnt get into trouble

unless you play rambo

i rarely got into situations like that in my shoe, and its lot less manuvrable then is7
I nearly killed a VK45 with my StuG3 today, because it has no side armour. Comparing that to the sloped-all-around armour of the IS-4 or 7 is. . . :blink:

In an IS4 or 7 you have to rush like a rabid weasel on ecstasy, or play scout, or do something equally stupid to find enough mediums to zerg you.

FRlTZ #35 Posted Sep 24 2010 - 00:51

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View PostCommissionerJan, on Sep 23 2010 - 16:44, said:

A quick comparison between:
130mm S-70
RoF:	5/min
Avg Pen: 260 mm
Avg Dam: 490
Accuracy: 0,35 m
Aim Time: 3 sec
and
12,8cm KwK44 L/55
RoF:	4,62/min
Avg Pen: 246 mm
Avg Dam: 470
Accuracy: 0,35 m
Aim Time: 2,5 sec
Oh, look the S-70 is actually better. Well, sucks to be in a house-sized target.



And...how many years development of the guns???
the german 128L61 was ready in 1944. (Oh, damn, that gun is only on JagdTiger for now?? my bad...)
When did the russians take the S-70 as a AT gun?

Let us see how the Maus can do with the 128L66 (If they give it to the tank).
And also, the E-series tanks, can be fun to pitch on the IS-7.

Edited by FRlTZ, Sep 24 2010 - 00:54.


ramp4ge #36 Posted Sep 24 2010 - 01:05

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I love people trying to justify the Maus' obvious inferiority vs the IS-7 with pseudo-realism arguments. "IT HAD AN AUTO LOADER"..Lool..Okay. That means squat..The Abrams has a manually loaded gun and it's faster on the Reload then the T-90 and the Leclerc, which have auto-loaded guns. An auto-loader is just something else to break.

The Maus used to be a terror. In the Russian closed beta, it was nearly unstoppable. And then armor got a general effectiveness nerf that screwed up a lot of German tanks. Tiger, KT, Panther, Elefant, VK-B, and Maus all got royally hosed by the Armor nerf.

They should set armor back to it's original values and that would offset the Maus' disadvantages in...well....everything...while at the same time fixing problems with many other German tanks.

The funny part is, this was predicted 2 or 3 months ago. Now that everyone's at endgame thanks to the softwipe, it's funny to see the predictions come true.

Damonvile #37 Posted Sep 24 2010 - 01:23

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View PostMadGel0, on Sep 23 2010 - 09:51, said:

they could start by fixing HUGE EASILY penitrateable spots on front armor...that even Tiger can penitrate

I think this is it's biggest down fall. If ppl know to hit it there the maus is a pretty easy kill.

__SNIPER__74 #38 Posted Sep 24 2010 - 04:07

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View PostEliminateur, on Sep 23 2010 - 18:03, said:

it'¿s perfectly fine that the S70 in the IS7 is better, don't forget the IS7 features an AUTOLOADER so it can fire MUCH faster than any other tank-gun in it's caliber class, actually it's been pretty nerfed in game in which it shows a small improvement over the same gun on the IS-4 which feature manual loading of bullet+propellant  (if i'm correct, it has 0.8~1RPM more).

also, why do you cry wolf at a 130mm gun with a barrel that's around 3~4m long compared to a 128mm gun, it's obvious the 130 long-barrel will pack a hell of a wallop compared to the puny 128 on the maus/vk4502

Fun having a 1946 design vs a 1942 one isn't it.

The_Evil_One #39 Posted Sep 24 2010 - 06:00

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View Postramp4ge, on Sep 24 2010 - 01:05, said:

I love people trying to justify the Maus' obvious inferiority vs the IS-7 with pseudo-realism arguments. "IT HAD AN AUTO LOADER"..Lool..Okay. That means squat..The Abrams has a manually loaded gun and it's faster on the Reload then the T-90 and the Leclerc, which have auto-loaded guns. An auto-loader is just something else to break.

The Maus used to be a terror. In the Russian closed beta, it was nearly unstoppable. And then armor got a general effectiveness nerf that screwed up a lot of German tanks. Tiger, KT, Panther, Elefant, VK-B, and Maus all got royally hosed by the Armor nerf.

They should set armor back to it's original values and that would offset the Maus' disadvantages in...well....everything...while at the same time fixing problems with many other German tanks.

The funny part is, this was predicted 2 or 3 months ago. Now that everyone's at endgame thanks to the softwipe, it's funny to see the predictions come true.

I hope the developers see this and take this into consideration.

Cragger #40 Posted Sep 24 2010 - 06:17

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Wouldn't matter if they upped it to 220 all the way around. Almost all the guns past tier 7 can pierce that easily on the 30% spread. Also for some reason horizontal slope =/= vertical in the game. Try driving a Tiger. Even if you offset to 45 degrees rounds with barely 110 penetration will still crash through your armor ever time. While the IS with its 90mm (Less then Tiger by 10mm) front plate will more often then not deflect it even though the incidence angle is the same or greater (higher angle of incidence easier to penetrate).




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