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Just an example of how bad the RNG can be.


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mp31b30q9 #21 Posted Apr 13 2012 - 21:52

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Just "bounced" nine shots in a row from my Churchill off a Ram 2 with 7HP at 10m he killed me.

Phelps #22 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 01:14

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View PostSgt_Kachalin, on Apr 13 2012 - 16:11, said:

He plays a tank that "can't be stealth nerfed" (tho why it can't is never explained), and it does exceedingly well. This "proves" that the fact he doesn't do exceedingly well in all tanks means the game is rigged? Or something...

He explains exactly why.  His theory is that the RNG only rolls you low for penn when you are "due" for a loss.  He already demonstrated it by recording shots with a BL-10.  When he was under 50%, they penetrated 60% of the time, when he was over 50%, less than 30% of the time.  He then picked a tank that still pens even when it has a low roll.  The discrepancy went away, because he took low pen rolls out of the equation, which is why the tank can't be stealth nerfed (by secretly changing the penetration median.)

Duma #23 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 01:25

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Working as intended.

Hirumaru #24 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 02:17

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Don't worry, guys. Valter says the "laws of higher math" mean that everything works out in the end. The RNG eventually resolves itself to a statistical average after 10,000 or so people are screwed over by it. So just keep clicking and praying!  :Smile_great:

/sarcasm

nimbleAH #25 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 02:34

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Does this game really change your damage based on win %?

Wenkel #26 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 02:39

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View PostProtostrator, on Apr 13 2012 - 12:05, said:

Rng can be really terrible sometimes. Yesterday I shot AMX 1375 which had 30 HP left. I hear "We hit them hard" but nothing happens. I do it 3 times, hear same thing and still nothing. It's 3 shots from BL-9 that if connect should flip 1375 over and send it flying. Teammate in Lowe shots same AMX twice and still nothing. No logical explanation for this...
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MalikCarr #27 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 03:31

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View PostWenkel, on Apr 18 2012 - 02:39, said:

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Oh god, you did *not* just invoke that guy...

Lord_Invader #28 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 04:29

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When it works for you it's great though. I actually bounced a 90mm from an AMX off the front plate of my Chaffee the other day. Damn near stopped playing and went out to buy a lottery ticket.

B4BYR4C3R #29 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 10:49

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View PostEkscalybur, on Apr 13 2012 - 20:11, said:

Most likely this is the real explanation. There is also a house model in the game with a shed attached to it. This shed can be shot right through to hit the tank who thinks he's got hard cover, as its a 2 story house that can't be demolished. I've reported it several times and check each patch. Every patch though, I'm able to peg people through it, much to the accusation of having better hax than them.


The wierd thing is this shed has a collision model and a 'destroyed' state. You can't drive through it, but rounds go through it no problem.

Could you possibly give more specifics on which house you are referring to, please? If more people put in bug reports about it maybe the devs will get off their arse and do something about it.

B4BYR4C3R #30 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 10:50

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View PostLord_Invader, on Apr 18 2012 - 04:29, said:

When it works for you it's great though. I actually bounced a 90mm from an AMX off the front plate of my Chaffee the other day. Damn near stopped playing and went out to buy a lottery ticket.

Good thing you didn't....all your luck was probably used up right there  :P

Kaiten #31 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 11:16

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View PostSickocrow, on Apr 13 2012 - 10:39, said:

Playing a match with the Bro in a pair of Tigers.  Didn't do too well, and that happens, but the RNG was complete fail at one specific moment. When you watch the replay I'm not talking about the Pen-no-damage BS which is plaguing the game right now since 0.7.2

Fast forward to 9:50 go to 1/16th speed and then go external view and watch what happens.  In game what I saw was the round hit the wall right next to me, but the replay shows the round explodes right out of the barrel.  WTF was my thought.

RNG at it's best.
Maybe it has something to do with your high ping? What you aim at in sniper mode is not always the same with the server. That's the downside for having high ping. The update is slower between your computer and the server and your round probably hit the bunker.

Sickocrow #32 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 11:37

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View PostKaiten, on Apr 18 2012 - 11:16, said:

Maybe it has something to do with your high ping? What you aim at in sniper mode is not always the same with the server. That's the downside for having high ping. The update is slower between your computer and the server and your round probably hit the bunker.

True, but the result would have been the round hitting the wall, and it didn't.  It exploded out of the gun.  I've seen what you've described before.  Shots coming out of the side of the turret were the barrel was 1/2 a sec ago.  My barrel is pointed at the PantherII for nearly 2 seconds before the shot happens.  320ms won't account for that, and it wasn't lagging that day.

Kaiten #33 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 11:47

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View PostSickocrow, on Apr 18 2012 - 11:37, said:

True, but the result would have been the round hitting the wall, and it didn't.  It exploded out of the gun.  I've seen what you've described before.  Shots coming out of the side of the turret were the barrel was 1/2 a sec ago.  My barrel is pointed at the PantherII for nearly 2 seconds before the shot happens.  320ms won't account for that, and it wasn't lagging that day.
Graphic glitch. I am pretty convinced that your shot failed because lag. You were turning your Tiger H turret rapidly at counter-clock then shot your guy rather quickly. I won't do that when I have high ping like yours(sometimes even worse when i have 999).

Sickocrow #34 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 12:20

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View PostKaiten, on Apr 18 2012 - 11:47, said:

Graphic glitch. I am pretty convinced that your shot failed because lag. You were turning your Tiger H turret rapidly at counter-clock then shot your guy rather quickly. I won't do that when I have high ping like yours(sometimes even worse when i have 999).

Maybe, but I must be the unluckiest man alive to have a lag spike happen right then.  As for my latency I'm well used to it.  It's constantly around 330ms.  I've gotten used to not reefing my shots because of it, and that wasn't a reefed shot.  If it was the round would have come out at a weird angle.

Kaiten #35 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 12:58

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View PostSickocrow, on Apr 18 2012 - 12:20, said:

Maybe, but I must be the unluckiest man alive to have a lag spike happen right then.  As for my latency I'm well used to it.  It's constantly around 330ms.  I've gotten used to not reefing my shots because of it, and that wasn't a reefed shot.  If it was the round would have come out at a weird angle.
You can always try to shoot at that spot again next time you are in that map. It's possible the bunker has a wrong collision bounding box like someone suggested. As far as RNG go, there isn't any secret code in WoT that will set rounds explode prematurely, unless a developer comes out and convince me otherwise.

Sgt_Kachalin #36 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 15:33

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View PostnimbleAH, on Apr 18 2012 - 02:34, said:

Does this game really change your damage based on win %?

Sure it does. Unless you have a Germanic surname, in which case it reduces the penn value of any shot by 13-29%, depending on day of the week. If you have a Slavic surname, and it's an Orthodox holiday, penn value is increased by the square of the number of the day of the year (Gregorian calendar) / 1000, but to never less than 3% in honor of the trinity. And don't even get me started if you have a Chinese surname and are driving a Type 59... that s&%@ is just OP!!!

There's all sorts of code like that in the game, to get you to buy gold. Isn't it obvious?

View PostPhelps, on Apr 18 2012 - 01:14, said:

He explains exactly why.  His theory is that the RNG only rolls you low for penn when you are "due" for a loss.  He already demonstrated it by recording shots with a BL-10.  When he was under 50%, they penetrated 60% of the time, when he was over 50%, less than 30% of the time.  He then picked a tank that still pens even when it has a low roll.  The discrepancy went away, because he took low pen rolls out of the equation, which is why the tank can't be stealth nerfed (by secretly changing the penetration median.)

On a serious not he doesn't “demonstrate” anything, simply makes assertions based on what he says he saw. Which as pointed out don't make sense given the more reasonable explanations of the game just working as advertised. The comments on his own blog pretty much sum up his tin-foil hatness.

Horndrid #37 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 18:08

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I absolutely believe this game is rigged. If you deserve a loss you will get one if you deserve a win you get one and on the odd occasion you buck the odds. I go on streaks where i cant miss, i hurt everything i shoot at and low and behold usually win. Then it all goes bad I cant hit i cant pen i miss at such close range there is no other explanation but the game has decided before the match that you are going to lose
How many of you had the scenario where if you just kill that one tank you will win?. You iether miss or bounce or do the wonderful "we hit them hard" for nothing over and over and over and then die. IMO the game will not have you winning that round and so the garbage missing etc kicks in.Is it to get you to spend? Is it a screwed up programming job? Dont know but its awful . I wouldnt bother with watching say a NHL game if i knew it were rigged, not sure how long i can take this clearly rigged game.Clearly in my opinion there are forces at work in the background rigging the game before it even starts and while its being played and it has to stop, whats the point of playing?  there isnt one if this is happening

smokntuesdays #38 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 18:24

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View PostPhelps, on Apr 13 2012 - 15:59, said:

Gevlon claims that it's not Random Number Generator, it's Rigged Number Generator.

http://greedygoblin....-is-rigged.html

I'm leaning his direction.

His premise is false from the start that the marauder could penetrate any tank all the time.    He is looking only at the paper values, but in game you have angles and distance which changes the actual effective armor of the vehicles.    This is the entire reason for slope armor etc.    So just because a tank only has X amount of armor on the front, that does not mean all shots are going to be penetrating shots.

And then his stats show he has a 84% win rate.   So exactly how is this being rigged against him?   He is well above 50%.  Bad teams happen, and apparently he has no concept of what random actually is.

psmurf46 #39 Posted Apr 18 2012 - 20:28

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View PostHorndrid, on Apr 18 2012 - 18:08, said:

I absolutely believe this game is rigged. If you deserve a loss you will get one if you deserve a win you get one and on the odd occasion you buck the odds. I go on streaks where i cant miss, i hurt everything i shoot at and low and behold usually win. Then it all goes bad I cant hit i cant pen i miss at such close range there is no other explanation but the game has decided before the match that you are going to lose
How many of you had the scenario where if you just kill that one tank you will win?. You iether miss or bounce or do the wonderful "we hit them hard" for nothing over and over and over and then die. IMO the game will not have you winning that round and so the garbage missing etc kicks in.Is it to get you to spend? Is it a screwed up programming job? Dont know but its awful . I wouldnt bother with watching say a NHL game if i knew it were rigged, not sure how long i can take this clearly rigged game.Clearly in my opinion there are forces at work in the background rigging the game before it even starts and while its being played and it has to stop, whats the point of playing?  there isnt one if this is happening

Well if this were really true, then it affects everyone playing the game.  So statistically it would even out with time.

I'm more of the group that just believes "dog poo" (trying to be clean here) happens sometimes.  You know that when you flip a coins it's a 50/50  chance for heads, right? So if you flip it 10 times it should come up heads 5 times, but I'll bet if you do it enough you can get times where heads comes up 7,8,9 or even 10 times. Just the laws of wierd stuff happening in the universe, not necessarily a conspiracy to ruin your gaming experience.

Phelps #40 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 20:07

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View Postpsmurf46, on Apr 18 2012 - 20:28, said:

Well if this were really true, then it affects everyone playing the game.  So statistically it would even out with time.

I'm more of the group that just believes "dog poo" (trying to be clean here) happens sometimes.  You know that when you flip a coins it's a 50/50  chance for heads, right? So if you flip it 10 times it should come up heads 5 times, but I'll bet if you do it enough you can get times where heads comes up 7,8,9 or even 10 times. Just the laws of wierd stuff happening in the universe, not necessarily a conspiracy to riun your gaming experience.

It's more like a D20.  And even then, with 30,000+ people rolling, some people would be rolling an average of 19 points even over the long run, not everyone falling between 8-12.  The law of large numbers works both ways -- so where are the WoT outliers?  

We don't all get D20s.  When your score gets up to 12, the the server swaps your die out to one that has 1-10 on it twice.  And when you slip down to 8, your die has 11-20 on it twice.




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