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ShivaX, on Apr 16 2012 - 14:12, said:

Yep, I'll admit, I'm a major German fanboy, but I'm not biased. IS4 gets smashed everytime an E75 is mentioned, but yet the IS4 is still some how better? LOL!

sRommels, on Apr 16 2012 - 18:01, said:

Oh i believe it, I pen IS4's side armor every match now, i noticed how weak it was when i was fighting them with my 59. Its a shame that IS4, Once the OP beast of the beta has been reduced to a under powered tank...

Mow_Mow, on Apr 16 2012 - 19:04, said:

True, But M103 isn't as slow as a 4502 or a Maus, not to mention it has does a'lot of DPM, and then all the other things that make IS4 inferior to every tier 9 tank now (Including the 4502B).

how did the IS-4 become worse than the 4502B?

Patton5150, on Apr 16 2012 - 20:06, said:

Any tank that can get in a battle with an IS-4 can pen it from the front, even if that tank is an MS-1 some troll dragged in, and that's the real issue IMO.

Beerstein, on Apr 17 2012 - 01:02, said:

If you just sit there and let them fully aim at something as small as the slit, sure, but then you deserve to get penned if you do.

Okeano, on Apr 17 2012 - 02:24, said:

Germans generally have pretty high accuracy which makes IS-4s especially vulnerable to Germans.

Beerstein, on Apr 17 2012 - 02:25, said:

If we are talking about the slit, it's not a matter of accuracy. If you keep moving back and forth at an angle, a 0.1 accuracy gun won't be able to hit the slit unless they are face hugging. Most complainers of the IS-4 don't realize that it's got -8 degree gun depression so you can play it like an American tank to hug a hill and only need your armor as backup or in the city.

Beerstein, on Apr 17 2012 - 01:02, said:

You can't actually damage the IS-4 through the driver's slit consistently without a 225+ pen gun.

I tested it with my Panzer IV with the 75/70.  You can kill the driver, but it's beyond your ability to reduce the IS-4's health.

hailene2092, on Apr 17 2012 - 02:33, said:

Which is good to know... apart from the fact that there seem to be a lot more 225+ pen guns running around these days.

SHISHKABOB, on Apr 17 2012 - 00:43, said:

Worse HP
Worse Acceleration
Worse turning
Worse aim time
Worse side armor (lol @ 50mm)
Worse front armor (Drivers hatch 0mm, and hull is weaker than 4502B)
Worse view range
Worse accuracy


The only negatives 4502B have are thin side armor, and rear mounted turret.

Garnett101st, on Apr 17 2012 - 02:44, said:

Worse Camo
Worse Turning
Worse track terrain
Worse module placement
Front mounted engine
Worse gun
Worse rear armor
Worse side armor (LOL 100mm FLAT > 50mm angled)
Worse turret
WE'RE ON FIRE!!!

Did I mention FIRE?

SHISHKABOB, on Apr 17 2012 - 00:43, said:

Since the holes in the IS-4 render it more of a sniper temporarily, the 4502B fulfills that role much better due to its gun, armor, and view range.   As was said though, this is all likely to change soon, and for all we know the driver's hatch was a bug added in prematurely for 7.3 as there is no other tank in the game with a zero armor value on any part of the tank.

Ducman69, on Apr 17 2012 - 03:10, said:

To be nitpicky, the tops of open-top tanks are all 0 armor regions

EDIT: The T110 also seems to have one point on its hull where there is only 10mm of armor, as there is an entry for an armor group with only 10mm...

Hull Armor
	<armor>
	  <armor_1>	254	</armor_1>
	  <armor_2>	140	</armor_2>
	  <armor_3>	76	</armor_3>
	  <armor_4>	38	</armor_4>
	  <armor_5>	114	</armor_5>
	  <armor_6>	44	</armor_6>
	  <armor_7>	38	</armor_7>
	  <armor_8>	25	</armor_8>
	  <armor_9>	32	</armor_9>
	  <armor_10>	38	</armor_10>
	  <armor_11>	203	</armor_11>
	  <armor_12>	25	</armor_12>
	  <armor_13>	10	</armor_13>
	  <armor_14>	76	</armor_14>
	  <armor_16>	70	</armor_16>
	  <surveyingDevice>	40	</surveyingDevice>
	</armor>

SHISHKABOB, on Apr 17 2012 - 00:43, said:

It didn't.  It's just hyperbole on their part.  The tank is still the best T9 heavy in game.  It's just that they've been knocked down even closer to the E-75, and the murican's new armor sports a sweet gun.  They're panicking simply because they can't faceroll to win anymore.

Drseckzytime, on Apr 17 2012 - 03:20, said:

If that were the case I wouldn't beat IS-4s in my IS-3 so much.

IS-4 should either have had the nerfed side armor, or the nerfed driver's slit. But both is overdoing it, I think.

EDIT: One of the things that makes the VK4502 Ausf.B a poor tier 9 tank is that now you are stuck with a 200mm penetration gun on a very slow chassis until you get the KT's gun. 200mm penetration does NOT cut it at tier 9. IS-4 at least has the BL-9, and E-75 has the KT's gun. M103 and VK4502 Ausf. B are both stuck with ~200mm penetration guns, although M103's first gun is a huge upgrade. VK4502 only gets to the level of the E-75 and IS-4 in their "stock" status.

Drseckzytime, on Apr 17 2012 - 03:20, said:

I can't help but agree. It's fascinating how things go from "OMG IS-4 SO OP RUSSIAN BIAS" to "OMG IS-4 SUX MS-1 KILLS IT"

Mow_Mow, on Apr 16 2012 - 19:04, said:

I agree crying about a weak spot on a tank that has been ''over all'' a great tank in the past and will be in the future..... Please, man up we all have to find ways around faults in tanks we all drive

hailene2092, on Apr 16 2012 - 00:31, said:

Not true - my first battle in mine I was fully upgraded  

I've also got similar concerns about this tank and don't plan on driving it much until the patch -- in it's current stat I think u have to really be a master of it to do well and I don't want to be a liability to the team  

Would hav liked to have been able to use it before the silly hatch armor gaff/nerd/whatever... And see what that was like. I used to fear this tank more than all others and now I go after them in my Lowe...

Kudos to those that still do well in it  

Mow_Mow, on Apr 16 2012 - 19:04, said:

Wait...I thought that M4A3E2 Jumbo which penetrated me from the front once was using Gold ammo but if a Chaffee can penetrate the M103 from the front, that means the Jumbo was not using Gold ammo?

SHISHKABOB, on Apr 17 2012 - 03:46, said:

Let me take your E-75 and nerf the frontal armor to 50mm. Better not complain! It was good before the nerf, no way it turns to rubbish after one patch!

The IS-4 has not been overpowered since the E75 was introduced. They've both been on equal footing until now. The E75 had that bounce-everything frontal armor and superior maneuverability, while the IS4 lacked a major weakspot for lower tier tanks to manipulate. Suddenly, wargaming introduces more lower tier tanks with stupidly high penetration values and adds a barrel of weakspots to the IS-4. There is just no reason for that. It wasn't that the IS-4 was OP, it was that the T34 (Now M103) and VK needed to be brought up to the E75 and IS4's level.

The IS4 lived off being as solid as a rock, but now the sides can be penned by T7 meds and T6 heavies.