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Rex_Nex, on Apr 17 2012 - 12:03, said:

Really?  You mean it can be hurt in specific spots by lower tier tanks like basically every other tank now?  Wow, that sucks.

Beerstein, on Apr 17 2012 - 03:37, said:

Tiger II can beat a E-75 as well.

Not to mention the one guy who's upset that other T9's and T10's can reliably damage them now lol.

So the problem is that you guys are vulnerable now to other tanks.  That tanks your tier, above your tier, and a few below specifically can damage you?  So you mean you're like basically every other non-T10 in the game now?  It's called you're spoiled.  That was a major problem with the IS4 being impervious to nearly everything that wasn't a maxed out T8 and above, and it would roll around and get free kills without worry.  Now you're on equal footing, because people didn't like that if they were in a T6/7/8, most likely they were IS4 fodder if one was in a match.  The IS4 also BTW, had the edge in win% since basically launch outside of maybe an odd month here and there when new tanks were introduced and people had to learn how to deal with them.  That tells you how strong the tank was.

I say, deal with it.  Deal with it for the month or so until they make the IS4 a legit T10.  It's sad it too this long for WG to actually balance out this tank, for obvious reason.

To those who doubt that the IS-4 Driver View Port is horribly easy to pen i refer you to testing results i posted HERE yesterday.
It isn't the only place, but it is the easiest to hit and most notable.

Mistaplug

Well I have elited every t9 heavy except for the frenchy and I will tell you that the is4 is a great tank. I think order of power in t9 goes e75>is4~VKB~m103>AMX. They all have weak points you just have to learn them and adjust play style. I actually prefer to go straight ahead and use a lil wiggle in a head on engagement. Sure you lose the driver every game that way but fa kit solves that and jack of all trades mitigates it to a decent extent. I love seeing is4 go 45 to me and expose their 140 armor shoulders flat. You must remember that the ammo rack is behind these. I rack killed 3 is4 yesterday alone( 2 in my t34 and 1 in my t110). Best advise is learn your weaknesses and do what you can to reduce or eliminate them. Every t9 is a viable great tank I've killed every t9 and t10 in every t9 it really comes down to player skill and a bit of luck.

Drseckzytime, on Apr 17 2012 - 14:10, said:

How is it ok that the Maus can bounce everything other then a maxed out T9 (and T10s too), but it's terrible for an IS-4 to be able to bounce maxed out tier 8s and below? And it wasn't impervious. The rear has always been weak. How is it ok for the Maus to have the edge in winrate since basically launch outside of a odd month here and there? I seriously could substitute IS-4 for Maus and your post would completely flip around. The reason why all this is OK is because these tanks relied on their advantage over lower tiers. The Maus would be equally pounded apart if we nerfed it's side armor so the poor little T7 and 8's didn't have to get behind it.

I can understand a slight nerf, but hitting the IS-4 so hard as to knock out an entire advantage is just too much. You are failing to realize that bullying lower tiers is its role on the battlefield; it just doesn't stand up to higher tiers like the E75 does. Once you take away that advantage... well now, what are IS-4 players supposed to do? Live with being a mediocre T9 until the patch?

I suppose so.

Drseckzytime, on Apr 17 2012 - 14:10, said:

I think there's a major point being missed here.  If match maker sticks some VI level tanks in your match that can actually hurt you, you will now kill them 1st.  It used to be the credit / xp gained from some stupid tank wasn't worth the shot if a bigger enemy was present.  Now, you get reduced XP for hurting/killing that guy WHO CAN KILL YOU.  Not much of a "beast kill" when your level 6 is sporting a level 7 gun with 212 pen.  Now, if you’re a 3601 with a 138 pen gun and you kill a big level 9... that's something.  

The new high pen guns have really changed the game.  I can't say that I really like this change.  I used to look forward to driving the monster tanks... driving in town shooting... now it seems every map is become a snip map.  I hate sniping!  I hated it in Doom, I hated it in ROT, I hated it in UT, Quake, UT2k4... let's just say I hate snipping.  Now this is only viable way to play this game.

Rex_Nex, on Apr 17 2012 - 15:38, said:

Maus is a different case all together, it's a super-slow, lumbering beast, that can be damaged by T8's in spots anyways.  I'll get to your "bullying role" tied in with this next person as well, but lets just say the IS-4 wasn't intended to "bully" other tanks around, no tanks should be like that, but the IS-4 WAS...

Highlander944, on Apr 17 2012 - 15:58, said:

No point missed here.  There's no reason a tank that's one-two tiers higher should be invulnerable to other gun fire.  No German and American tank were like this, as they could be penned from the sides and rear by them.  The IS-4 used to flat-out ignore lower tier tanks because they had a 90% chance they wouldn't damage them, while the other two nations tanks had to worry about that.  I think it's fair now that you have to worry about other tanks, just like the other nations do, taking shots at those lower tiers since they hurt too.

These are prime examples of why the IS4 was OP SINCE LAUNCH.  And you guys are complaining that they finally equalized you, relatively, after all those months of sheer dominance?  Please.  Deal with it for the next month or so until they finally make it the T10 it almost was pre-nerf.

This is just self-entitlement that russian tankers were used to enjoying all that time, and once they finally feel what it's like to be like the other tankers since launch, they're upset.  That's all it is.

Mow_Mow, on Apr 17 2012 - 03:08, said:

I bet IS4 has worse turning, not only the speed of the turning is worse, it doesn't have neutral steering.

Ill give you camo, IS4 has worse track terrain, ill give you module placement, engine too, the 12.8cm gun is better in some aspects such as accuracy and aim time, rear armor is useless in bringing up, 50mm side armor slopped is probably equal to 60mm thick wooptie doo. Turret is worse ill give you that.

Plus 4502b has stronger front armor than IS4.

Most russian tanks have worse turning purely because they lack the neutral steering(ability to pivot in place without moving forward) that is common on most german and american tanks.

Grisbane, on Apr 15 2012 - 23:01, said:

I got to say that this is the only reason why i'm writing my first reply on this forum.

Lately I noticed something is very wrong with IS-4. I get penned everywhere and all the time... ammorack hits every 3rd or 4th game and the tank started to suck big time.
I also noticed that i got penned today by a T-44 from 50m in my ammo rack. I mean, cmon! 175mm of penetration and a freaking T-44 one shoted me.
Is a IS-4 a heavy tank or a swiss cheesse product? I even get penetrating hits form T8 tanks around my drivers hatch not to it!

 shot_011.jpg (162.62K)
downloads: 16
Not a single visible penetrating shot and take a look at my health. Ok, this might be a graphics glith of some sort but al in all to stop with the bitching, IS-4 really started to suck and is being retired in my garage untill 7.3 patch comes out cause this started to be a joke of a game.

Adapt to the tank. I play it more like the IS3 than the pre patch IS4 minus the head on angling. Guns can actually hurt you pretty bad. But if you use your head and get a little lucky the tank is still a beast. I am running across a lot of lazy IS4 drivers out there who sit and shoot and dont pivot or move, or expose their sides. They get picked off really fast. The slit if you dont do anything will get hit and it will hurt. E75s are still a pita. But not because of their range sniping ability. But because they are damn quick and if they get on you they can shoot your hatch while you bounce off their front. I actually prefer them at range. I can make the slit hard to hit and hit their lower glacis with the S70 for reliable damage.

My career started out rough on the IS4 due to having the BL-9 and getting it right after the patch. So I played it like other used to play and thought I could simply bully my way across the battlefield. My win rate was sub 45%. Now I am approaching 60% after changing my tactics and playing more defensive when under fire, and agressive when not like I did in my IS3. My IS3 finished its career with a 62% win rate.

IS-4 is a 'survival' tank. 'Steel wall' 1st priority, 'Top Gun' 2nd.

Don't get caught in the open, try to hide your drivers hatch at the expense of showing your sides (at a steep angle).

Get to a strategically important spot on the map and hold it. Those tactics worked best for me on the IS-4.

I didn't have the IS-4 before the patch so I am not a victim of the bais that goes along with a Nerf.  To me the IS-4 is still very effective and there really isn't much I fear in it.   Front armor does seem to get penned more than I would like but then again I have days where everything bounces.  Just the other day I, being the tank with the best armor, drop face first into a T95 to keep him pointed at me and distracted so one of my teammates could flank and destroy him.  He bounced 4 shells off my front turret and plate, no pens at all.  Teammated flanked and destroyed him.  This situation isn't all that uncommon.  

As far as gun accuracy, I don't see a problem.  I have a 81% hit rate with my IS-4 which is pretty much my highest of any tank.  No you can't snapshot with the gun but if you let the aim circle settle it usually hits what you aim at.  Basically you just have to have a little fire disipline and your golden.  

Actually this reminds me of a story about Wyatt Earp.  He was suppose to be one of the Slowest Draws in the West but at the same time was one of the most successful gun fighters.  The reason being is that while everyone else was drawing fast and spraying out lead in panic as fast as they could, he would pull out his gun, line up, AIM and kill you. This is how you have to play Russian guns.  AIM then FIRE  

Drseckzytime, on Apr 17 2012 - 17:13, said:

I stated level 6, you state “one-two tiers”.  I believe your exaggerating.  I played the T32 prior to patch 7.2 and it could pen the IS4.  While playing my IS3 in patch 7.0 I was able to pen the IS4.  The only 8 I own that had a 90% bounce rate on the IS4 was the type 59.  The only 7s I owned prior to this patch were the Panther and IS and both could pen from the sides and rear more than 1 in 10.  The place where your statement holds true is with German mediums up to the big gun on the Panther, but the low pen for the German line is another story.  Have you met the E75? (yes I know you have)  I feared them pretty equally.

Anyway, here’s the point, because yeah you did miss it.  The IS4 now has less survivability in game, this is a statement of truth.  Everyone has the opportunity to obtain the IS4, so if you felt it OP you too could obtain this tank.  I began driving the IS4 in patch 7.2, I'm sad because I wanted to drive the monster that I worked so long to obtain.  It feels like a bait and switch because by radically changing pen values and reducing armor, Wargaming has significantly impacted gameplay.   What is wrong with that statement?  How would you feel if you worked on a tank for 3 or 4 months and as you finally arrive, it is changed significantly?

Rofl is4 is gonna be the beast it used to be. And yes it used to be a beast before they made the hatch out of recycled AOL cd cases and turned the armor down to 140mm. With more armor on both front and hatch and that new 122 it's gonna make all the lil fanbios cry. As for what you need to do to get it the notes clearly read that if you don't have the s70 unlocked then you start with a higher rof t7 gun. YUP they learned their lesson with all of these worthless grinders who just did the bare min to unlock the t34 and t30 last patch. YOU will start with a T7 GUN. And you will only get the bl9 on your freebie is8. This way we will all know who really knows how to use their hot new t10 is4 and who the bandwagon gimme a free t10 tank ppl are.

Garnett101st, on Apr 17 2012 - 17:53, said:

VK's front armor isn't all that great when every time you get hit there you get set on fire...

Mow_Mow, on Apr 18 2012 - 18:59, said:

Lol well not everytime but with the m58 it's getting close to that. I rate the VKB and the is4 about equal both have strengths and weaknesses in filling their role as mini mauses. The is4 is certainly a better candidate for t10 conversion.

Just to make matters worse, ill attach a replay of a game that made me go HUH?!?

Its campinovka, as usual im going for the hill with my M103. On my way up, i bounce IS7 from long range. This has been a "ill try a luck shot" attempt but then i spot M103 behind IS7.
3 shots at M103, 1 critical no dmg and 2 pens with dmg. Ok, ill go up to help meds... Someone is going to finish of that M103, this is what i was thinking at the moment.
Then I encounter T110E5, tried to flank him but the arty gets him before I do. All in all, looking good.

IS and IS-4 approaching. Of course, ill leave that IS alone as my primary concern is the IS-4.
I shoot it 2 times, both penetrations in his front nonexistent armor. After the second shot, i notice IS is rushing to flank me.
Since my gun depression sucks, i shoot at his driver hatch to kill his driver as doing this will surely slow him down for me to make a minced meat out of him.

To my obvious surprise, he facehugs me. Ok, not a big deal. Turret has 100mm of armor and it shouldnt be a problem.
But guess what, this is where the shit hits the fan. 2 non pen shots in his turret ring which is obviusly invincible.
3rd shot i messed up and it bounced from the top of his turret cause i was confused. Well, since i cant pen his turret ring, drivers hatch i surely will and i did.


Point is... i can pen IS-4s front with no problem at all (at his almost 290mm of effective armour), but i cant pen IS's turret ring at all. So much for IS4 being OP.
New OP tank is IS. (Ok, this is just a joke)

So battle mechanics, physics and gameplay just went out of the window to make a suicide jump.

I've attached a replay file for everybody to see cause i was pretty much furious after seeing that.


Replay: http://www.2shared.c...03_malinov.html


Disclaimer: Im not thrashing the IS-4 or any other tank, at least it's not my intention to do so but to point out the problems of the game which are growing bigger and bigger with every patch that comes out.

Drseckzytime, on Apr 17 2012 - 14:10, said:

The problem is, the IS-4 was overpowered because of its side armor and the difficulty of most guns penetrating its frontal armor, even with well aimed shots.

Before 7.1 and 7.2, the only guns that could reliably hurt the front of the IS-4 were 225+ pen guns with good aim and somewhat straight shots.  ~200 could pull it off, but it needed straight shots.  These guns were basically the King Tiger, IS-3, and tier 8+ artillery (tier 9 mediums could go through the front, but they generally wouldn't try to).

For side shots, you needed at least 200 pen to get through the side armor of 160mm+20mm of tracks (180mm minimum) where ~220 is considered more or less safe.

The tank has no acceleration, no turning.  It relies on its silly armor (all directions) to survive.

Enter 7.1.  The first wave of super-pen tanks come in with 212 in tier 7, 232 in tier 8, and 267 in tier 9 pen guns.  The front armor started being shot to pieces by more tanks than just tier 8+ tds (depending on the TD, at that, where only the ISU-152 really had a shot for tier 8 "reliably") and a second tier 9 tank had reliability against the front, the 50 120, with a gun almost guaranteed to go through the front in vacuum settings.  The E-75 is relatively fine, since it only has a couple weakspots even to mighty 260+ pen guns, but the reliable enemies the IS-4 had pretty much doubled in one patch.

Then queue 7.2 and the new US tanks, as well as the IS-4 nerfs.  Now you have even more super pen guns out there in the M58, probably the strongest gun in the game in my express opinion (when chassis is taken into consideration) and the IS-4's front armor looks pretty lacking suddenly.  In addition to yet another tank that can go through the front, the side armor was nerfed to 120mm+20 for armor behind the tracks (the shelf hanging over the tracks is still 160, mind) and they even added a 50mm weak spot that is so vulnerable that, with a bit of cheesing, 100mm pen guns can reliably get through in testing.  For 129 pen guns, you can get through with very careful aim and a relatively stationary target.

This is in addition to 160 pen guns being viable against the side armor and 175+ pen guns basically becoming reliable against relatively flat side shots.  The IS-4 has E-75-like side armor, but without the ridiculous frontal armor and acceleration the E-75 has to offer.


Overall, the IS-4 is, in my opinion, the worst tier 9 heavy in the game currently, well behind the other ones.  I'd probably rate tier 9 heavies as E-75>50 120 > M103 > 4502B >= IS-4 at this point.  And, I still think the M103 is a tad underpowered due to the massive holes it has in the turret armor.

The thing that ruins it is that it doesn't have the acceleration, cruise, or general maneuver to compensate for its now worse armor.  The tank is underpowered, and it's really strange to say that, since a mere patch ago it was still technically overpowered due to the maus-like side armor.

I'm still doing fine in mine. Managed to bounce 4 shots on their IS-4 with my own while aiming at shoulder through a bush. It turns pretty good with 100% clutch breaking and off-road driving. Who needs armor when you have played American tanks? It's not staying this way for long anyways.

In case anyone is still questioning if the IS-4's armor is as weak as people are saying I just penned one in my SU-8 from the front, that's an 88 pen 910 damage HE gun...Took him from 100 to 51% That's almost 800 damage from across the map in an actual battle...