IS4: Easily the worst tier 10
Snohoe
Apr 21 2012
SilverforceX, on Apr 21 2012 - 08:11, said:
IS4 is 140mm upper glacis @ 61 degrees. Now 200mm driver port @ 50 degrees, use to be 160mm @ 50 degrees. In terms of effective armor vs -6 AP normalization:
Upper glacis = 244mm
Driver port = 278mm (Used to be ~220mm effective, the weakest part)
Cheeks (with angle straight on) = 286mm (It used to be the same as the upper glacis, hence if u angle it straight on, guns can wreck it and often ammo-rack the IS4)
It's a HUGE buff for the IS4, look at its frontal profile now, if your shots stray from targeting the upper glacis and hits the driver port or cheeks, it will bounce. Cheeks straight on with combined two angles will bounce gold shells.
Just these two changes make the IS4 the most effective frontal armor in-game, as its "weakspots" are 244mm effective with NO angles that only gets better with angling. Currently an angled IS4 risk ammo-racking due to the same 140mm cheek armor, but with this buff, IS4 need not fear and angle away, presenting the front in such a way as its invulnerable in the entire upper glacis. It's lower glacis is still weak but its a very small area overall compared to other tanks.
Upper glacis = 244mm
Driver port = 278mm (Used to be ~220mm effective, the weakest part)
Cheeks (with angle straight on) = 286mm (It used to be the same as the upper glacis, hence if u angle it straight on, guns can wreck it and often ammo-rack the IS4)
It's a HUGE buff for the IS4, look at its frontal profile now, if your shots stray from targeting the upper glacis and hits the driver port or cheeks, it will bounce. Cheeks straight on with combined two angles will bounce gold shells.
Just these two changes make the IS4 the most effective frontal armor in-game, as its "weakspots" are 244mm effective with NO angles that only gets better with angling. Currently an angled IS4 risk ammo-racking due to the same 140mm cheek armor, but with this buff, IS4 need not fear and angle away, presenting the front in such a way as its invulnerable in the entire upper glacis. It's lower glacis is still weak but its a very small area overall compared to other tanks.
Can someone confirm this.
diain
Apr 21 2012
IS4 ain't the worst tier 10 but it's got a few little problems.
ATM it feels more like a buffed up IS3 than anything. It certainly does need 20-30 points of hull armour. More importantly they need to get rid of the stock D-25T.
As a free player, I just know that it's going to be near impossible for me to grind for the new gun in the IS4 using the D-25T. Everyone who levels up later from the ST-1 will have the new gun, but I got to grind for it in the IS4, a tier 10 with a considerably larger repair bill, using a crappy tier 8 gun? Why? Just because I had the IS4 before patch? How's that fair?
Edit:
@Adamanthys
The driver port has been buffed to 140 mm, and the side plates (the ones covering the ammo) have been buffed to 160 mm. But AFAIK the angles of the armour haven't been changed. Don't know where the dude's getting it from.
ATM it feels more like a buffed up IS3 than anything. It certainly does need 20-30 points of hull armour. More importantly they need to get rid of the stock D-25T.
As a free player, I just know that it's going to be near impossible for me to grind for the new gun in the IS4 using the D-25T. Everyone who levels up later from the ST-1 will have the new gun, but I got to grind for it in the IS4, a tier 10 with a considerably larger repair bill, using a crappy tier 8 gun? Why? Just because I had the IS4 before patch? How's that fair?
Edit:
@Adamanthys
The driver port has been buffed to 140 mm, and the side plates (the ones covering the ammo) have been buffed to 160 mm. But AFAIK the angles of the armour haven't been changed. Don't know where the dude's getting it from.
Wind2008
Apr 21 2012
diain, on Apr 21 2012 - 10:57, said:
IS4 ain't the worst tier 10 but it's got a few little problems.
ATM it feels more like a buffed up IS3 than anything. It certainly does need 20-30 points of hull armour. More importantly they need to get rid of the stock D-25T.
As a free player, I just know that it's going to be near impossible for me to grind for the new gun in the IS4 using the D-25T. Everyone who levels up later from the ST-1 will have the new gun, but I got to grind for it in the IS4, a tier 10 with a considerably larger repair bill, using a crappy tier 8 gun? Why? Just because I had the IS4 before patch? How's that fair?
ATM it feels more like a buffed up IS3 than anything. It certainly does need 20-30 points of hull armour. More importantly they need to get rid of the stock D-25T.
As a free player, I just know that it's going to be near impossible for me to grind for the new gun in the IS4 using the D-25T. Everyone who levels up later from the ST-1 will have the new gun, but I got to grind for it in the IS4, a tier 10 with a considerably larger repair bill, using a crappy tier 8 gun? Why? Just because I had the IS4 before patch? How's that fair?
genocide69
Apr 21 2012
its first test wait for second one they will change things on is 4 and its not easily the worst tank owned is 7s and e100s on it with out to much effort even if the front armor sucks it has 2400 hp and that tier 8 gun is historical is 4 gun u dont have to use it they just put it coz is 4 had it u unlock the main gun on tier 9 tanks sorry for bad english
prince_machiavelli
Apr 21 2012
MalikCarr, on Apr 21 2012 - 01:46, said:
The gun isn't the problem. In fact, the gun is the best thing about IS-4 - you can really rattle off shots at people and reliably penetrate stuff that even the S-70 sometimes had problems with. That extra 10mm penetration must really help.
The problem is that the tank is still basically using the armor scheme of a Tier 7 tank. It would be like if Maus had 250mm front armor, but it was totally flat like Tiger I - everyone who doesn't suck at this game knows how to get around it and exploit its weaknesses. They're not on the same level of KV-5, but still...
As usual, I would direct interested tankers to the modest proposal in my forum signature... perhaps for future patches we can do something a little more sensible for a Tier 10 tank.
The problem is that the tank is still basically using the armor scheme of a Tier 7 tank. It would be like if Maus had 250mm front armor, but it was totally flat like Tiger I - everyone who doesn't suck at this game knows how to get around it and exploit its weaknesses. They're not on the same level of KV-5, but still...
As usual, I would direct interested tankers to the modest proposal in my forum signature... perhaps for future patches we can do something a little more sensible for a Tier 10 tank.
Make it a premium. Only half joking. I want a free premium.
Seriously though it seems so silly to have an IS-4 as the end of the research tree. From what I understand in RL it is just an up-armoured IS-2. I know, I know, historical accuracy isn't everything, but at least most lines seem to develop along advancements in technology (even if only prototypes that were never actually manufactured.
NGU873X
Apr 21 2012
SilverforceX, on Apr 21 2012 - 08:11, said:
IS4 is 140mm upper glacis @ 61 degrees. Now 200mm driver port @ 50 degrees, use to be 160mm @ 50 degrees. In terms of effective armor vs -6 AP normalization:
Upper glacis = 244mm
Driver port = 278mm (Used to be ~220mm effective, the weakest part)
Cheeks (with angle straight on) = 286mm (It used to be the same as the upper glacis, hence if u angle it straight on, guns can wreck it and often ammo-rack the IS4)
It's a HUGE buff for the IS4, look at its frontal profile now, if your shots stray from targeting the upper glacis and hits the driver port or cheeks, it will bounce. Cheeks straight on with combined two angles will bounce gold shells.
Just these two changes make the IS4 the most effective frontal armor in-game, as its "weakspots" are 244mm effective with NO angles that only gets better with angling. Currently an angled IS4 risk ammo-racking due to the same 140mm cheek armor, but with this buff, IS4 need not fear and angle away, presenting the front in such a way as its invulnerable in the entire upper glacis. It's lower glacis is still weak but its a very small area overall compared to other tanks.
Upper glacis = 244mm
Driver port = 278mm (Used to be ~220mm effective, the weakest part)
Cheeks (with angle straight on) = 286mm (It used to be the same as the upper glacis, hence if u angle it straight on, guns can wreck it and often ammo-rack the IS4)
It's a HUGE buff for the IS4, look at its frontal profile now, if your shots stray from targeting the upper glacis and hits the driver port or cheeks, it will bounce. Cheeks straight on with combined two angles will bounce gold shells.
Just these two changes make the IS4 the most effective frontal armor in-game, as its "weakspots" are 244mm effective with NO angles that only gets better with angling. Currently an angled IS4 risk ammo-racking due to the same 140mm cheek armor, but with this buff, IS4 need not fear and angle away, presenting the front in such a way as its invulnerable in the entire upper glacis. It's lower glacis is still weak but its a very small area overall compared to other tanks.
I'm happy if it is true
azren
Apr 21 2012
prince_machiavelli, on Apr 21 2012 - 13:40, said:
Make it a premium. Only half joking. I want a free premium.
Seriously though it seems so silly to have an IS-4 as the end of the research tree. From what I understand in RL it is just an up-armoured IS-2. I know, I know, historical accuracy isn't everything, but at least most lines seem to develop along advancements in technology (even if only prototypes that were never actually manufactured.
Seriously though it seems so silly to have an IS-4 as the end of the research tree. From what I understand in RL it is just an up-armoured IS-2. I know, I know, historical accuracy isn't everything, but at least most lines seem to develop along advancements in technology (even if only prototypes that were never actually manufactured.
If you're talking about the fact that it's an IS-series tank and has more armor than an IS-2, then sure. Otherwise, not entirely. The designs, while sharing some similar construction/build mechanics are almost entirely different.
aquabat
Apr 21 2012
Adamanthys, on Apr 21 2012 - 10:34, said:
Can someone confirm this.
7.3 specs:
Spoiler
7.2
Spoiler
So, aparently, there were a lot of changes made, including the addition of 2 new armor groups.
Riceygringo
Apr 21 2012
aquabat, on Apr 21 2012 - 16:38, said:
7.3 specs:
7.2
So, aparently, there were a lot of changes made, including the addition of 2 new armor groups.
Spoiler
7.2
Spoiler
So, aparently, there were a lot of changes made, including the addition of 2 new armor groups.
The second one is the 7.1 stats, not 7.2, in 7.2 they ninja nerfed the sides to 120. So on top I see one group of 120mm. They think 120mm of side armor is good enough for tier 10
Haxxzor
Apr 21 2012
I only played a few high tier games with my fully researched IS4 last night, but it performed like a beast. Bounced alot of shots and dished out great damage, I think I got 8 kills in one match, cant remember exactly, but I know it was fun. Currently waiting in que to get back in and do some more testing.
razielkaine
Apr 21 2012
djuice1701, on Apr 21 2012 - 04:04, said:
You got to be utterly joking right?
This tank is utter garbage... Tier 7's can penetrate you from the front reliably.. Tiger, AMX 45 M4, T29 can punch holes through you lower glacis, and if they are close enough, the upper glacis. Not to mention every Tier 8+ can totally screw you over. Also the 122mm M62-T2 gun isn't that good either, it's low DPM, and extremely long aiming time compare to the US 120mm M58... the only good thing about it is the high penetration with standard AP rounds, and semi-alright accuracy, allowing you snipe @ 300m effective, and more then that, and your playing roulette.
Anecdote, from Test server.. T110E5s can face rush you and more often then not kill you before they you can cripple them... damn Russian tactics...
This tank is utter garbage... Tier 7's can penetrate you from the front reliably.. Tiger, AMX 45 M4, T29 can punch holes through you lower glacis, and if they are close enough, the upper glacis. Not to mention every Tier 8+ can totally screw you over. Also the 122mm M62-T2 gun isn't that good either, it's low DPM, and extremely long aiming time compare to the US 120mm M58... the only good thing about it is the high penetration with standard AP rounds, and semi-alright accuracy, allowing you snipe @ 300m effective, and more then that, and your playing roulette.
Anecdote, from Test server.. T110E5s can face rush you and more often then not kill you before they you can cripple them... damn Russian tactics...
If your getting consistantly penetrated in the front by low levels then you need to sell this tank because you have not learnt how to use it properly and deserve to die. The is4 has always had this weakspot but has been far from a rubbish tank.
Snohoe
Apr 21 2012
Well I hope they ninja buffed its armour cause in 7.2 225 pen gets through just fine though you can pen it with 175 in the right spots and unlike the e75 and such you cant angle to help it, then they just shoot the side panels.
Mongo63a
Apr 21 2012
I played my IS-4 on the test server and it worked very well. The gun has a quick reload, is accurate and the armor seems fine. It is still better than an E-100 by far.
Every one on the test server always use gold ammo so its hard to tell what it will be like in pubs.
Now the IS-8 is a beast, its speed will make it a mean rival for the E-75.
Every one on the test server always use gold ammo so its hard to tell what it will be like in pubs.
Now the IS-8 is a beast, its speed will make it a mean rival for the E-75.
Snohoe
Apr 21 2012
Mongo63a, on Apr 21 2012 - 18:36, said:
I played my IS-4 on the test server and it worked very well. The gun has a quick reload, is accurate and the armor seems fine. It is still better than an E-100 by far.
Every one on the test server always use gold ammo so its hard to tell what it will be like in pubs.
Now the IS-8 is a beast, its speed will make it a mean rival for the E-75.
Every one on the test server always use gold ammo so its hard to tell what it will be like in pubs.
Now the IS-8 is a beast, its speed will make it a mean rival for the E-75.
Maybe its just gold rounds but I didn't have one bounce with my is8 even when pointed straight at them with my pike nose hidden.
SilverforceX
Apr 21 2012
Test server players = gold rounds.
It's stupid they should removed gold rounds to allow proper testing.
It's stupid they should removed gold rounds to allow proper testing.
kampfer91
Apr 21 2012
Facehug is a good tactic for the IS-4 nowadays , now there is no more hole on the turret , joy .
Back to the good-old closed beta .
Back to the good-old closed beta .
Snohoe
Apr 21 2012
SilverforceX, on Apr 21 2012 - 18:45, said:
Test server players = gold rounds.
It's stupid they should removed gold rounds to allow proper testing.
It's stupid they should removed gold rounds to allow proper testing.
I agree how are they supposed to know how effective armour really is on average when the stats are completely flipped on their head with everyone using gold. They have to wait till its released then collect the real data leading to later buff / nerfs.
Look_its_Rain
Apr 21 2012
IS-4 is terrible as a tier 10, pretty much no frontal armor needs some type of buff to be remotely competitive.
MotorizedPatriot
Apr 21 2012
djuice1701, on Apr 21 2012 - 04:04, said:
You got to be utterly joking right?
This tank is utter garbage... Tier 7's can penetrate you from the front reliably.. Tiger, AMX 45 M4, T29 can punch holes through you lower glacis, and if they are close enough, the upper glacis. Not to mention every Tier 8+ can totally screw you over. Also the 122mm M62-T2 gun isn't that good either, it's low DPM, and extremely long aiming time compare to the US 120mm M58... the only good thing about it is the high penetration with standard AP rounds, and semi-alright accuracy, allowing you snipe @ 300m effective, and more then that, and your playing roulette.
Anecdote, from Test server.. T110E5s can face rush you and more often then not kill you before they you can cripple them... damn Russian tactics...
This tank is utter garbage... Tier 7's can penetrate you from the front reliably.. Tiger, AMX 45 M4, T29 can punch holes through you lower glacis, and if they are close enough, the upper glacis. Not to mention every Tier 8+ can totally screw you over. Also the 122mm M62-T2 gun isn't that good either, it's low DPM, and extremely long aiming time compare to the US 120mm M58... the only good thing about it is the high penetration with standard AP rounds, and semi-alright accuracy, allowing you snipe @ 300m effective, and more then that, and your playing roulette.
Anecdote, from Test server.. T110E5s can face rush you and more often then not kill you before they you can cripple them... damn Russian tactics...
7.2 IS-4 Armor: 140mm - "Armor's too powerful! I can never penetrate it."
7.3 IS-4 Armor: 140mm - "Tier 7's can penetrate it."
Whats changed? Nothing has, only the shells they shoot. What happens when you give 23,000 players 15,000 gold? You get around 66,000 gold rounds.
Your argument is invalid.
The only thing the IS-4 needs is a small armor buff and the drivers hatch removed. As a tier 10, 140mm is the lowest compared to all other tier 10's.
The tank is not garbage either. It's just underpowered. It is fully capable of going head-to-head with tier 7's, 8's, and 9's. 10's? Thats another story.
Riceygringo
Apr 21 2012
M18HellCat, on Apr 21 2012 - 20:28, said:
7.2 IS-4 Armor: 140mm - "Armor's too powerful! I can never penetrate it."
7.3 IS-4 Armor: 140mm - "Tier 7's can penetrate it."
Whats changed? Nothing has, only the shells they shoot. What happens when you give 23,000 players 15,000 gold? You get around 66,000 gold rounds.
Your argument is invalid.
The only thing the IS-4 needs is a small armor buff and the drivers hatch removed. As a tier 10, 140mm is the lowest compared to all other tier 10's.
The tank is not garbage either. It's just underpowered. It is fully capable of going head-to-head with tier 7's, 8's, and 9's. 10's? Thats another story.
7.3 IS-4 Armor: 140mm - "Tier 7's can penetrate it."
Whats changed? Nothing has, only the shells they shoot. What happens when you give 23,000 players 15,000 gold? You get around 66,000 gold rounds.
Your argument is invalid.
The only thing the IS-4 needs is a small armor buff and the drivers hatch removed. As a tier 10, 140mm is the lowest compared to all other tier 10's.
The tank is not garbage either. It's just underpowered. It is fully capable of going head-to-head with tier 7's, 8's, and 9's. 10's? Thats another story.
