70 replies to this topic

[MistaPlug]

 Darth_Conrad, on Apr 23 2012 - 18:57, said:

I'm sorry but you can go on the live servers and test the effectiveness of the IS-4's frontal hull since no changes have been made that part of the tank.

Changes actually HAVE been made to the armor. Overlord just said NO MORE will be made most likely. The drivers port area that bulges out is supposedly 200mm now and the "shoulders" are supposedly 160mm now instead of 140mm.

[Sgt_Sarge_S_Sarge_Jr]

Considering the front of the IS-4 (not the driver's hatch or lower plate, just the front) can be penned by several tier VI's not using gold. . . i don't see how it can fair against tier X's.

[kampfer91]

Wrong ! My 12.8 and 120 bounced off ! The front armor is good , my old T34 with the 10.5 can't even pen the hatch .

[SgtPepper]

 kampfer91, on Apr 23 2012 - 22:39, said:

Wrong ! My 12.8 and 120 bounced off ! The front armor is good , my old T34 with the 10.5 can't even pen the hatch .

I can pen the IS4 consistently in the front with my Lowe on live, so could this be an aiming problem? Like 4 out of 5 shots will penetrate it seems. I assume the old T34 had more pen than a Lowe. And I know my E75 has no problem at all penetrating it on the front. I am not even on test, but as a tier 9 on live it needs an armor buff, so at tier 10...yah.

[kampfer91]

I can say the same thing with the E-100 having its lower hull penetrate by the long 107 , plus set the engine on fire 3 times .
Between the IS4 and E-100 , the IS-4 still having a better life than the E-100 .

[SocialFlaws]

 SgtPepper, on Apr 24 2012 - 00:06, said:

I can pen the IS4 consistently in the front with my Lowe on live, so could this be an aiming problem? Like 4 out of 5 shots will penetrate it seems. I assume the old T34 had more pen than a Lowe. And I know my E75 has no problem at all penetrating it on the front. I am not even on test, but as a tier 9 on live it needs an armor buff, so at tier 10...yah.

T34 with the 105 pen is 198 while the lowe has 234.
It was a hard shot because you'd bounce on anywhere but the hatch itself, but it was do-able.

[Glythe]

This little diagram illustrates why the IS-4 will never be even close to the effectiveness of an IS-7.



See that 30mm armor plate on top of the tank? Any "tall" series tank, like a maus or even the E100 can always go through that spot at ranges between 50 meters or less. If they buff that spot then they need to rework the entire German line as everyone will scream historic bias. That 30mm plate also illustrates a bias with the tank in that something like a wespe should be able to penetrate the turret with every shot.

It's ridiculous that they buffed the armor on the front of the tank in the first place so it could be a tier 10 tank. See the 160mm side armor? You can't reliably shoot at that because of the changes they made to track armor many patches ago. If this game had any sense of balance the AP shell would penetrate that region nearly 95% of the time with an occasional 5% bounce instead of the opposite (which is more or less the current situation).

"But that would completely nerf the tank!"

My reply to that is Russian bias; it's simply poor game design to give one tank vastly superior armor and slightly less health (comparing Russian tanks to German tanks... you know something is wrong when the Maus has worse armor than the IS-7). Before they bother releasing the British tanks they need to go back and rebalance nearly the entire German tree.

[Riceygringo]

 Glythe, on Apr 24 2012 - 02:25, said:

This little diagram illustrates why the IS-4 will never be even close to the effectiveness of an IS-7.



See that 30mm armor plate on top of the tank? Any "tall" series tank, like a maus or even the E100 can always go through that spot at ranges between 50 meters or less. If they buff that spot then they need to rework the entire German line as everyone will scream historic bias. That 30mm plate also illustrates a bias with the tank in that something like a wespe should be able to penetrate the turret with every shot.

It's ridiculous that they buffed the armor on the front of the tank in the first place so it could be a tier 10 tank. See the 160mm side armor? You can't reliably shoot at that because of the changes they made to track armor many patches ago. If this game had any sense of balance the AP shell would penetrate that region nearly 95% of the time with an occasional 5% bounce instead of the opposite (which is more or less the current situation).

"But that would completely nerf the tank!"

My reply to that is Russian bias; it's simply poor game design to give one tank vastly superior armor and slightly less health (comparing Russian tanks to German tanks... you know something is wrong when the Maus has worse armor than the IS-7). Before they bother releasing the British tanks they need to go back and rebalance nearly the entire German tree.

That diagram is completely out of date, the armor behind the tracks is 120mm instead of 160mm

[AuroraLota]

 Glythe, on Apr 24 2012 - 02:25, said:

This little diagram illustrates why the IS-4 will never be even close to the effectiveness of an IS-7.



See that 30mm armor plate on top of the tank? Any "tall" series tank, like a maus or even the E100 can always go through that spot at ranges between 50 meters or less. If they buff that spot then they need to rework the entire German line as everyone will scream historic bias. That 30mm plate also illustrates a bias with the tank in that something like a wespe should be able to penetrate the turret with every shot.

It's ridiculous that they buffed the armor on the front of the tank in the first place so it could be a tier 10 tank. See the 160mm side armor? You can't reliably shoot at that because of the changes they made to track armor many patches ago. If this game had any sense of balance the AP shell would penetrate that region nearly 95% of the time with an occasional 5% bounce instead of the opposite (which is more or less the current situation).

"But that would completely nerf the tank!"

My reply to that is Russian bias; it's simply poor game design to give one tank vastly superior armor and slightly less health (comparing Russian tanks to German tanks... you know something is wrong when the Maus has worse armor than the IS-7). Before they bother releasing the British tanks they need to go back and rebalance nearly the entire German tree.

Just a hint, game dev never used that diagame for anything in game, not only is the angle in that diagrame wrong, so are the most of its values.

[Holeinthehead]

 thetap, on Apr 23 2012 - 17:06, said:

You're claiming the IS-4 has weak armour and is easily destroyed - I can assure you that isn't what's happening on Test, even with all the Gold rounds flying.

The ST-I armour layout is similar enough to be relevant here.


IS-4 (and ST-I) is not easily penetrated by Tier 6, Tier 7, or Tier 8 tanks. If you want to make ridiculous claims, you need to back it up with some evidence.

I took the IS 4 for yet another series of runs last night . Second game in I was dead in TWO shots . You can mess up an IS 4 just about anywhere front on .

If i wanted a tank that has to hide , bunker down , sneak around .. I'd buy a scout .......

I want a tier 10 that can actually brawl , that can lead a push , that lasts longer than you average suicide scout ..................

[thetap]

If anyone's free, I'm up for a training room session on Test. Send me a message in-game (on Test, not Live) and we can run some tests.

Edit: name is thetap_US, not just thetap.

[thetap]

No takers yet, so here's a short replay instead:

http://www.mediafire...pam9z0xx248c1nz

Fired two good shots at an IS-4 at close range (in my IS-8, 270-pen). First one was aimed at the 'shoulder' upper plate - due to the IS-4 angling his hull this was facing me nicely. Bounced. Second shot penetrated his lower hull glacis as he was driving directly at me.

I'm still interested in doing a more controlled test in the Training Room. Call me. Call me now.

[SilverforceX]

Shoulders are now 160mm, it will bounce pretty much anything non-gold.

Considering the E-100 lower plate is crap and its turret is now weak to all the new guns.. IS4 with better mobility, better gun and 2,400 HP.. yeah, if IS4 is bad, then E-100 is an utter joke.

[Snohoe]

 SilverforceX, on Apr 24 2012 - 13:56, said:

Shoulders are now 160mm, it will bounce pretty much anything non-gold.

Considering the E-100 lower plate is crap and its turret is now weak to all the new guns.. IS4 with better mobility, better gun and 2,400 HP.. yeah, if IS4 is bad, then E-100 is an utter joke.

Angle that turret between shots, I could pen a E100 and maus turret non angled fine without the 10 more pen.

Oh and the shoulders do not bounce, I always seen pen holes in them.

[SocialFlaws]

 Adamanthys, on Apr 24 2012 - 13:59, said:

Angle that turret between shots, I could pen a E100 and maus turret non angled fine without the 10 more pen.

Oh and the shoulders do not bounce, I always seen pen holes in them.

The s-70 at 260 pen will bounce off the shoulders if the driver is unangled, but when people angle the IS-4 to give it more bounce on the driver's plate the s-70 can go through pretty easy.

[AuroraLota]

 SocialFlaws, on Apr 24 2012 - 16:08, said:

The s-70 at 260 pen will bounce off the shoulders if the driver is unangled, but when people angle the IS-4 to give it more bounce on the driver's plate the s-70 can go through pretty easy.

The should is now 120mm, 160mm only applies to the front upper angled plate which is less then 30% of the surface area of the side. Any gun with 230mm+ pen can penetrate the side even at extreame angle(20+).

[AuroraLota]

 SilverforceX, on Apr 24 2012 - 13:56, said:

Shoulders are now 160mm, it will bounce pretty much anything non-gold.

Considering the E-100 lower plate is crap and its turret is now weak to all the new guns.. IS4 with better mobility, better gun and 2,400 HP.. yeah, if IS4 is bad, then E-100 is an utter joke.

Thats the way it was before 7.1. The shoulder is now a mere 120mm anywhere but the front upper shoulder.

[SilverforceX]

 AuroraLota, on Apr 24 2012 - 17:28, said:

Thats the way it was before 7.1. The shoulder is now a mere 120mm anywhere but the front upper shoulder.

Got a diagram or pic? Have no idea what you are referring to. The frontal "shoulders" is 140mm => 160mm buffed. The ammo-rack spot.

[sephrus]

If anything it needs the armor behind the tracks buffed to historical 160 mm flat. The 120 flat is a joke esp since the is4 doesn't  have the bulky suspension wheels idlers return rollers that the Germans Americans and French have to soak the dmg into the tracks. The t110 can have crap side armor but like all American tanks 1/2 the hits go to the tracks. Hits to the sides of my is4 almost never get track soaked.

[SocialFlaws]

 AuroraLota, on Apr 24 2012 - 17:28, said:

Thats the way it was before 7.1. The shoulder is now a mere 120mm anywhere but the front upper shoulder.

I tested this on live yesterday, so unless they nerfed the armor for 7.3, you don't know what you're talking about.

P.S. Are we talking about the same area? Shoulders as in adjacent to the front plate where the driver's hatch is located.