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I've only read about half the comments in this thread and can determine this is going the same way the T110 did.  

As many of you may recall, the T110 was universally bashed by all.  Any comments made in its favor were immediately neg repped into oblivion.  There was even a call for a tier 10 boycott until its "overwhelming weaknesses get fixed".  And yet it rapidly won hearts and minds and has even found a big following in CW.

Frankly I couldn't give a crap about the IS-4's armor or weak spots because with all the new high penetration guns not even the Maus is protected.  Armor is useless.

For what its worth, I like the IS-4 changes.  Its fun to play.  Even though I hate the way the game is turning with the addition of the new rail guns the last 3 patches, an IS-4 that moves 41kph is a hoot.

I have been playing the IS-4 and the IS-7 since beta.  The IS-7 was unbalanced as a Tier 10 until it received its frontal armor buff with one of the recent patches (love the current IS-7).  The IS-4 was a great tier 9, matched only by the E-75 in sheer brawling ability (at its tier).  Sure it has the glaring driver port weakness, but at range, it still bounces several shots off of its front/sides/back, and it dealt out some serious damage with the S-70.

Currently, however, the 7.3 test is showing the IS-4 to fall short of my expectations of how a tier 10 should perform.  For starters, the frontal armor is far too weak to be considered tier 10.  Shells hardly bounce, and with the newer guns coming into the game, the frontal armor is getting penetrated fairly regularly in the test battles I have played.  In my opinion, the increase in top speed and hit points, and the slight increase to the gun's penetration/rof does not make up for its loss in alpha damage or its lack luster frontal armor.  The gold round stats look great, but I do not, and I would assume most tankers in this game, do not want to have to purchase every round we fire with real money/gold just to make the tank competitive in non-CW play.

The only intention that I can see for this tank was to make it play a more supportive role, and hull down to make use of its massive turret armor and its gun.  The problem with this, however, is that the poor depression rating of the IS-4's turret with the 122mm M62-T2 make it awful for hull-down play.  Also important to note, the increased top speed is mostly goes most unnoticed after you get into your initial position during the start of the round, as the power to weight ratio of the IS-4 makes it's acceleration so poor that it is hardly able to make use of its top speed increase.  I had assumed that the Tier 10 IS-4 was to be the "Soviet Maus"; A slow, lumbering, heavily armored, beast that would give the Maus and E-100 a good run for the money.  This current IS-4 has nothing that makes it appealing to me over the IS-7.  The mobility is poor, but really it's the frontal armor that makes this tank compete for the position of worst Tier 10 heavy.  I do not see any situation where I would rather play this current IS-4 instead of my IS-7, and considering the new T110 for the american heavy line, I am not sure many CW battles will call for IS-4's over T110's/IS-7's.  The current IS-4 really just does not have a clearly defined role.

Take a look at current stats/changes:

7.2 IS-4 @ Tier 9:
Gun:          130 mm S-70
Rate of Fire: 3.89 (15.42 second reload between shells = 1,906 damage per minute)
Penetration:  260/303/68
Damage:       490/490/640
Accuracy:     0.4
Aiming Time:  3.43

Speed:        35km/h
Hit Points:   1590
Hull Armor:   140/160/100 mm
Turret Armor: 250/200/170 mm

7.3 IS-4 @ Tier 10:
Gun:          122mm M62-T2
Rate of Fire: 4.11 - 5       +0.22 - 1.11 Increase (14.59 - 12 second reload between shells = 1,808 - 2200 damage per minute)
Penetration:  270/400/68     +10/+97/68 Increase
Damage:       440/440/530    -50/-50/-110 Decrease
Accuracy:     0.38           +0.02 Increase
Aiming Time:  2.9 - 3.4      +0.53 - +0.03 Increase

Speed:        43km/h         +8 Increase
Hit Points:   2400           +810 Increase
Hull Armor:   140/160/100 mm No change
Turret Armor: 250/200/170 mm No change


If you choose to continue down the path that you have taken with the current changes to the IS-4 (+top speed/hp/rof/pen/accuracy), then I highly suggest you consider buffing the frontal armor to at least 160-180mm, drop the top speed back to its tier 9 stat of 35km/h(or even less), and add 100-200 hit points, and allow thorough testing to continue before you release this tank as is.  

My wishes for the IS-4 probably will not come to fruition, but I would like to see the IS-4's stats floating somewhere between the E-100 and the Maus.  These would be my suggested changes:

My Suggestion for 7.3 IS-4 (the following +/- values reflect changes from 7.2 to current 7.3 test)
Gun: S-70 (unchanged)
Speed:        28km/h         -7
Hit Points:   2500           +910
Hull Armor:   180/150/130 mm +40/-10/+30
Turret Armor: 250/200/170 mm No change

My proposed stats are absolutely in need of heavy testing to determine fair balance, and they are simply a reflection of what I would like to see the IS-4's role to be.  A lumbering sledge hammer, Russia's version of a Maus/E-100 hybrid.

Just my opinion guys.  Hope we see some positive change come out of all these negative posts about the current IS-4's 7.3 stats.

(edited to reflect rof/reload/dpm and power to weight ratio versus top speed of IS-4.)

 TopperBottoms, on Apr 23 2012 - 16:59, said:

You forgot to mention that +9 km/h is almost useless since it only gained an extra 50 hp, right now the IS-4 is the 2nd worst tier 9 in terms of maneuverability with only an abysmal 0.9 hp/ton ratio better than the Ausf B.

I think if the IS-4 was like this:

Speed/Maneuver: stays the same

Armor: 160/160/100 (and NO stupid 120mm of armor behind the tracks and remove that viewport weakness)

Health: 2500

Gun: 250 pen but everything else remain the same.

I think I rather have a worse gun but better armor

The reload on my IS4 is 9.9 seconds on the test server, not 12+ and on the live server i think its 12.5 seconds

that is of course with a rammer and vent on both

If you take a look at the stats for the IS-4(before factoring in equipment), you see that the rounds per minute is listed as 3.89 (for the 7.2 IS-4).  Over 60 seconds, that comes to 60/3.89 = 15.42 seconds between shells.

For the new 7.3 IS-4, the rounds per minute is listed as 4.11 - 5.  Again, 60/4.11 and 60/5  = 14.59 and 12 seconds between shells respectively.

itll still be more viable than my 50b is now.  bouncing gold rounds off of t110s... gimme a FB.

armor on the is-4 isnt adequate for close range, but the gun is not accurate enough or quick enough aiming to act as a sniper...leaving this tank useless compared to T10 heavies already in game. Mobility is crap as well...lucky to get far over 30 km/hr on flat ground, turning was nerfed and the tank already suffers in this deparment anyways because russian tanks lack neutral steering.

The IS-4 needs to be up armored in the front to have reliable armor, or just about every other stat needs to be changed to make it a reliable mobile sniper, aka Aim time down to ~2.5, reload to 5.5 or 5.75, Turret and track traverse 2-4 degree each, engine needs more horsepower so a better top speed is reachable on flat ground and to improve the abysmal turning and climb rate.

ATM i would say on average i bounce more shells in my M103's armor each game than i do in my IS-4 on the test server which is sad.

Needs just a little help on the front armour, whatever Overlord says. It's a Tier X, not a Tier IX, and the Maus has 2800hp, similar pen ability when well aimed and lastability. With all the high pen guns Wargaming are putting in, and so many weakspots on each tank, the fact that is Pen > Armour then the shots are majoritively not bouncing off an IS-4 but going straight through makes it pointless to have this tank. Nerf ROF a bit if needed, but remember that CW is creep and peep and boom, and so is higher tier pub matches. This means the so called agility of this tank is useless when it melts under far fewer shots than its compatriots.

Everyone (edit: most posters) assumes the IS4 will be a hulk like the Maus.

Maybe instead it's designed to play more like E100? Both have glaring frontal weaknesses. Both have large guns which are too inaccurate for sniping. E100 has decent acceleration straight and IS4 has decent top speed straight. Engine fires.... Well hahaha.

Both are mostly useless in a CW situation. IS7 and Maus have a better and more defined role in strategic play. I've never played AMX50B, T110/IS7/Maus; most nation has a viable CW tank.

 Zidaen, on Apr 23 2012 - 20:52, said:

to answer you engine fires..  the IS-4 has the "1 shot death from front" problem, just did it to one on the test server with an IS-7 a few minutes ago, and i don't use gold rounds.

I penned an IS-4 in the face with my T-54, no gold. >_>

It has the same armor as the current IS-4, so anything over 200 pen has a chance at going through the upper glacis. At 235+ pen it'll go through fairly consistently unless you angle perfectly. This tank doesn't cut it as a Tier X, and especially not as a minimaus.

It was a disappointment as a tier IX when i got it on the NA server, it's even more of a disappointment as a tier X.

The biggest problem i have. . .is that there are several tier VI's that can penetrate it's front, not the glacias, not the drivers port, but just the front. If i wanted a paper tank, I'd have gone American or french tanks.

Why does IS-4 have as many hit points as E-100, even though it weighs half as much and is a third the size?

Tanks in WoT of the same tier generally have more hit points as their relative armor values and the aggregate mass of the tank goes up. I would assume that's why a Panther (medium tank) has more hit points than an IS (heavy tank) even though they're of the same tier and heavy tanks always have more HP than mediums of the same caliber/faction. And yet, to make IS-4 competitive at Tier 10, it now has 2400HP - more than the heavier, better-designed IS-7. Why? Just because those values make sense for gameplay? There's no reasoning behind this considering that it's contrary to how just about every other tank in the game went.

Why is IS-4's top-rated speed now its maximum speed in the game?

Very few other tanks can actually go their "do not exceed" speed in WoT - top speeds are usually averaged out over published specifications on flat roads and lumpy cross-country travel, such as Tiger II at 28 km/h or IS had 34 km/h. IS-4, however, gets to go its maximum rated speed, even though that tank had major problems with handling and maneuverability due to its weight from all the heavy armor, which is what ultimately led to its rejection.

Why did IS-4's shoulder armor arbitrarily become 160mm?

It was never actually that thick. Meanwhile, it still has the driver's slit from the early Object 701 prototypes, so while it's now better at angling its hull and playing peek-and-shoot, anyone with steady aim can still fire HE through a weak point dead center in the middle of the bow.

Why did anyone think it was a good idea for a tank designed in 1944 to be a Tier 10 in the first place when many newer designs that did not require buckets of magic fairy dust-derived improvements to work were available?

If Russian players needed a better Tier 10 option, you should have just un-nerfed IS-7 and let that thing chug around at 50 km/h, like it actually did... http://forum.worldof...ile_sceptic.gif

 Zidaen, on Apr 23 2012 - 20:52, said:

Except with that comes the 150mm with massive damage it can poke and hide for a long reload the is-4 armor is weak and it has to poke itself out to shoot almost twice as much as the E-100.

 Grisbane, on Apr 23 2012 - 21:10, said:

It wasn't so much a question as a "look, the IS4 at tierX is just a small E100".

I was going to tell a joke along the line of, a E100 walks into a bar and challenges the fist is4 he sees to a duel. Both drive 10 meters, turn and spontaneously light on fire. Except it isn't funny.

 MistaPlug, on Apr 23 2012 - 22:58, said:

Assuming the target is lightly armored or close enough to hit a weak spot. A bounce then assures you receive damage  twice without inflicting damage. Unless you load gold on the 15cm except HEAT is not normalized and bounces anyway. In a tierX fight you need reliable damage. Having low pen isn't terrible unless you also have low accuracy. Even then I don't mind. The real sad part is anything with 250+ pen can shoot me in the front, pen the lower plate and light me on fire. Sure I extinguish fast but most of the time I lose a combination of engine, ammo, loader, driver and commander. Heal the loader and fix the ammo or suffer 40+ seconds of reload time. That's still OK until it happens twice which thankfully isn't every game. Just having to choose ammo over engine, loader over driver is rough since you then move at a crawl.

Either way, the complaints I see about the IS4 are a very similar tune. Seeing more than is7/maus/t110 for tierX in CW should be the devs goal. I hope the IS4 gets brought up to par and I hope the E100 gets the same treatment next patch. They don't need overhauls, just tweaks.

its gun is too inaccurate to snipe.
its armor is to weak to brawl.
its gun depression is too bad to go hull down.
its shoulder armor is too weak to peak-a-boo.
its maneuverability is too bad to flank.

I don't get it, where does this tank fit in?

 Soviet_Gen, on Apr 24 2012 - 00:55, said:

i think WG is trying to figure that part

 Holeinthehead, on Apr 23 2012 - 11:39, said:

Not arguing about the current is-4 since it does not feel like a tier 10 at all, but you've said this twice. The first time I let it slide, but now, I have to correct your over-exaggeration.

Please realize, there's no gun in-game (including bl10 at the highest damage role) that will 2 shot you at your 2.4k hp, except perhaps arty.

Arty however, has that effect on any tank, depending on the hit (back/engine/side shots usually go for full damage). We can argue armor, mobility, etc, but try to keep mis-information at a minimum please.

Either way, I suspect the balancing weighs in the hands of our russian friends in their server, since they're the big paying base and most likely more vocal about this.

 Soviet_Gen, on Apr 24 2012 - 00:55, said:

Probably the best post in this whole thread.

This IS-4 just doesn't have a niche, it has no point.

How about this, since you don't want to touch the armour leave it alone and reduce the speed but through ROF and Alhpa buff its DPM above that of the other tier 10s, make it the slow damage dealer.