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IS-8 vs ST-I vs M103


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thetap #1 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 12:21

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Almost everyone is driving IS-8s on Test so I thought I'd share some info on the new ST-I. Here's some screenshots of these three beasts, fully upgraded. Interesting to note the differences between the same 122mm on the two Russian tanks.

In battle, ST-I feels a lot tougher than IS-8 or M103, but is also significantly slower than either. Gun depression is good, I'd guess at 7 or 8 degrees.

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Edit: Added VK4502B from Live server for further comparison.

djuice1701 #2 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 12:28

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The winner is... definitely not the ST-1...

M103 is damn awesome, so is the IS-8... but the ST-1... is totally a washout...

thetap #3 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 12:34

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I kinda like it. It's very much a frontline tank unlike the other two, and considering the amount of gold being thrown on Test it's armour still holds up very well. It's a true heavy, but has poor mobility (roughly similar to the German heavies) and the worst gun of the three.

DentedBullet #4 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 12:45

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It does have good armour though but I think the aim time should come down a bit. Overall a good strong heavy tier 9.

hoom #5 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 12:53

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Quote

Interesting to note the differences between the same 122mm on the two Russian tanks.
Indeed it certainly is.
T10M had both vertical and horizontal stabiliser so it makes sense that it'd aim quicker.

I'm much more comfortable about this gun now on that basis.
I saw that higher aim time stat out of context on its own in a different thread & was very unhappy about it.
2.9 on the IS8 is fine, considerably inferior vs the US aim time but still much better than what high tier Russians currently have.

SunFlash #6 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 13:09

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i liked the IS-8 alot, reminded me of the IS-3 and i just loved that tank.  however, the ST-1 is as slow as ***** and doesn't have enough armor to compensate.

SilverforceX #7 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 14:41

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Can't wait for the IS-8.

kvarium #8 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 15:18

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Poor Poor Germans.

djuice1701 #9 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 15:20

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View Postkvarium, on Apr 22 2012 - 15:18, said:

Poor Poor Germans.

Well the German's still have the E75... still can bounce things pretty well from the front, only weakness been the lower plate, plus it's gun can punch through the IS-8 like swiss cheese, and the ST-1 front hull since it nearly exactly like the IS-4..

SilverforceX #10 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 15:28

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View Postdjuice1701, on Apr 22 2012 - 15:20, said:

Well the German's still have the E75... still can bounce things pretty well from the front, only weakness been the lower plate, plus it's gun can punch through the IS-8 like swiss cheese, and the ST-1 front hull since it nearly exactly like the IS-4..

If by swiss cheese you mean having 1/2 the rounds bounce.. then sure.

Otherwise they are using gold shells. 246 avg pen on 12.8cm doesn't punch through much, especially not vs 140mm @ 61 degrees slope (ST-1) or IS-8 (~230mm effective or more).

The reasons why the E75 is still good: Decent mobility, decent armor (both front/sides), very strong turret with a tiny weak cupola, and NO frontal engine fires to hits on the lower glacis.

If they took the E75, gave it 2800 HP, it would be better than a Maus. Or if they gave it 2400HP and the 15cm gun, it would be better than an E-100 by far. E-75 is like the pinnacle of German HTs, after it, the tanks have completely all the wrong things which make them inferior: Crap mobility, crap armor (Giant weakspots including the entire turret) and frontal engine fires.

EnsoZero #11 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 15:35

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In what way is it balanced for the German gun to be strictly inferior to the Soviet version?

Same damage and accuracy, but it has strictly worse penetration and reload. Is there even a point to play German heavies now?

DannyT251 #12 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 15:41

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View Postdjuice1701, on Apr 22 2012 - 15:20, said:

Well the German's still have the E75... still can bounce things pretty well from the front, only weakness been the lower plate, plus it's gun can punch through the IS-8 like swiss cheese, and the ST-1 front hull since it nearly exactly like the IS-4..
Haha, you made me laugh.

BTW: There is still VK4502B which is worse than E75 in almost every way.

thetap #13 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 15:46

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Something else I found interesting was the relative size of these vehicles. IS-8 is big - bigger than both ST-I and IS-7 in every dimension. Its design makes it look smallish, that is until you compare it directly with the others.

Midnitewolf #14 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 16:20

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I was going to write a similar post but you beat me too it.

I haven't tried the ST-I yet but have been comparing and contrasting the M103 anb the IS-8 pretty thoughly and it has been a close match up.

The IS-8 has a definate speed advantage which I must say is nice but overall the M103 has much better agility due to its piviot steering and up till it reachs it maximum speed, has no problems keepin up with the IS-8.  Also I think the M103 climbs better.  

Overall though after alot of thought, I think the Winner is the M103.  The main reason for this is because, it wasn't until my last game on the M103, that I finally managed to unlock the M110 and with it, the M103s best gun.  So what I found was that even using a gun with far inferior penetration It still consistantly outplayed the IS-8.

However, I am a bit concerned I am not getting a fair and accuracte comparison.

Why?

Become the Test server lists the M103 with a different armor value than the live server.

TEST:
Hull: 203/51/38
Turret: 127/127/51

LIVE:
Hull: 127/51/38
Turret: 127/127/51

So something isn't right exactly right.  Not sure if this is a test upgrade, a fix, or what but it appears the M103 has 76mm more Armor on the Front hull than live.  I guess lets hope this is either a buff that will make live or that we already have it in live, just the values are listed wrong.

LoooSeR78V #15 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 16:21

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View PostSilverforceX, on Apr 22 2012 - 15:28, said:

If by swiss cheese you mean having 1/2 the rounds bounce.. then sure.

Otherwise they are using gold shells. 246 avg pen on 12.8cm doesn't punch through much, especially not vs 140mm @ 61 degrees slope (ST-1) or IS-8 (~230mm effective or more)..
Is-8 have about 200 effective, lower glacis have even less. Don't whine, IS-8 get a IS-3 hictorical armor  :D
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246 mm pen is enough for IS-4 upper glacis.
But i think that small pen/acc buff will not be useless for 128 mm cannons.

archer276 #16 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 16:50

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The IS-8 just feels like a beefier IS-3 with a good gun.  The ST-1 has good armor and a good gun, but the second turret's traverse speed seems slow.  Maybe this is because I am use to the IS-7, IS-4 and IS-8.  While it is better than the KV-4's it just seems slow.  Any pack of mediums or even one can easily circle you to death.  Also, the ST-1 doesn't seem to suffer the same front hull armor problems as the IS-4 although that could just be my lack of matches in it.

GonTo30 #17 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 18:10

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View PostMidnitewolf, on Apr 22 2012 - 16:20, said:


So something isn't right exactly right.  Not sure if this is a test upgrade, a fix, or what but it appears the M103 has 76mm more Armor on the Front hull than live.  I guess lets hope this is either a buff that will make live or that we already have it in live, just the values are listed wrong.


Nothing has changed, the 203mm is listed as the pike of the M103's hull. Just like the T110's 254mm of armor is the pike of its hull.

SilverforceX #18 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 18:53

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View PostLoooSeR78V, on Apr 22 2012 - 16:21, said:

Is-8 have about 200 effective, lower glacis have even less. Don't whine, IS-8 get a IS-3 hictorical armor  :D

246 mm pen is enough for IS-4 upper glacis.
But i think that small pen/acc buff will not be useless for 128 mm cannons.

Versus -6 degrees AP normalization.

IS3 armor is 110 @ ~56/44 combined angles. ~210mm effective.

IF IS8 has 120 @ ~56/44, its ~230mm effective. Not that good for a tier 9, but considering the tank is fast and packs a great gun, I will be more than happy with it tbh.

Also, current IS-4 upper glacis will bounce 12.8cm about half the time, it's not "enough".

GonTo30 #19 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 18:54

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View PostSilverforceX, on Apr 22 2012 - 18:53, said:

Versus -6 degrees AP normalization.

IS3 armor is 110 @ ~56/44 combined angles. ~210mm effective.

IF IS8 has 120 @ ~56/44, its ~230mm effective. Not that good for a tier 9, but considering the tank is fast and packs a great gun, I will be more than happy with it tbh.

Also, current IS-4 upper glacis will bounce 12.8cm about half the time, it's not "enough".

I'm almost certain the IS8 has a greater slope than the IS-3.

SpectreHD #20 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 18:58

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There is something I realise and I am sure some of you also but 3 Russian tanks share the same top gun. :facepalmic: