19 replies to this topic

[GottaLoveIt]

The other night I was playing a Random Battle at Malinovka (Ah, Campinovka! How we love your green fields and the sound of artillery fire!) and at some point, pretty much everyone on both teams was camping while some heavies and meds fought for positioning at the windmill.

That's when a 3-man platoon in my team begins complaining about this Leopard camping right outside the base. And I'm there, not that far, sitting in my JagdPzr IV and thinking "Yeah, who camps in with a Leopard?". So, they start raging the guy and all, and the Leopard still doesn't move. I notice him trying to fire at the guys uphill, to no avail, and get to thinking "Dumb auto-aiming excuse for a sniper." I noticed uphill things were not moving that great to our team, so I start relocating to a place I can give our guys some cover fire, up there. So far, just another random battle, huh?

And then the shout (I know the guy shouted it, because he turned Caps Lock on, right? that means it's serious! ooooooohh!) "SHOOT THAT LEOPARD FOR NOT SCOUTING!" And worse than the shout, one of our arties, not even on that plattoon actually takes it's attention from the ongoing battle, types "I got it!" and kills the Leopard.

So, let's recap...
. retard Leopard sniper? CHECK!
. usual ragers on and on about "how the game SHOULD be played"? CHECK!
. artillery taking time on the lowest-value shot instead of maximizing its utility? CHECK!
Conclusion: Definitely a public Battle.

The thing that bothered me there was the thought: "He's not playing as we think he should, so let's just make him rain over this green field." Not everyone will play the same, right? I'm definitely not a fan of the whole 'Light Tank Sniper' wave and I'd sure appreciate a scout just as much as the next TD. But hey, he's playing it the way he wants and what's so wrong with that, really?

Do I think that Leopard deserved a shot? YES! (Caps Lock, so you know it's a big yes, right?) From its own team? NEVER! (again, all big and shiny) He deserved a shot because he was a stationary Light Tank and that's just stupid. But let the enemy teach him so!

Don't like people raging and ranting about how I should ride my tanks, so I believe the guy was well within his rights to waste the whole match.

[Ironmonger69]

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a bot shooting in the general enemy direction, not actually trying to hit anything but just appear to be playing.

[Enaris]

Seeing lights snipe can be disconcerting... but on the other hand, what some light players do is stay out of harms way until the battle lines have been drawn (and maybe even thin out) so that they can pick a lane for an arty raid.

No clue if that's what he was trying to do, but yeah, your team way overreacted.

Of course, I'd rather have a useless Leo than a useless, AFK IS-3, or one hiding behind the back buildings in Malinikova where they couldn't even see an enemy, much less hitting them.  Inanity rules at all tiers and in all types.

[philjd]

I'm not that good with my Leopard (better with the 2801), and no, that was not me, and a different play style is needed by myself - it gets tedious doing the rush-> die routine even if you're not trying to die.. so a little variety in game play is healthy.

But TK'ing is never a solution except for TK'ing a TK'er.

[kraftinator]

I'm curious as to where he was sitting, but there are 3 or 4 VERY good passive scouting locations on Campinovka.  Now, if he wasn't lighting anything up then I'd have my concerns, but depending on the team make-ups I will often take my T-50-2 and park it in one of my favorite shrub patches and scout for the first 3-5 minutes of the game. Once everything opens up you can push in and end artys, but passive scouting on that map in particular can be devestatingly effective.

[POLICENITRO]

GottaLoveIt, on Apr 30 2012 - 17:52, said:

The other night I was playing a Random Battle at Malinovka (Ah, Campinovka! How we love your green fields and the sound of artillery fire!) and at some point, pretty much everyone on both teams was camping while some heavies and meds fought for positioning at the windmill.

That's when a 3-man platoon in my team begins complaining about this Leopard camping right outside the base. And I'm there, not that far, sitting in my JagdPzr IV and thinking "Yeah, who camps in with a Leopard?". So, they start raging the guy and all, and the Leopard still doesn't move. I notice him trying to fire at the guys uphill, to no avail, and get to thinking "Dumb auto-aiming excuse for a sniper." I noticed uphill things were not moving that great to our team, so I start relocating to a place I can give our guys some cover fire, up there. So far, just another random battle, huh?

And then the shout (I know the guy shouted it, because he turned Caps Lock on, right? that means it's serious! ooooooohh!) "SHOOT THAT LEOPARD FOR NOT SCOUTING!" And worse than the shout, one of our arties, not even on that plattoon actually takes it's attention from the ongoing battle, types "I got it!" and kills the Leopard.

So, let's recap...
. retard Leopard sniper? CHECK!
. usual ragers on and on about "how the game SHOULD be played"? CHECK!
. artillery taking time on the lowest-value shot instead of maximizing its utility? CHECK!
Conclusion: Definitely a public Battle.

The thing that bothered me there was the thought: "He's not playing as we think he should, so let's just make him rain over this green field." Not everyone will play the same, right? I'm definitely not a fan of the whole 'Light Tank Sniper' wave and I'd sure appreciate a scout just as much as the next TD. But hey, he's playing it the way he wants and what's so wrong with that, really?

Do I think that Leopard deserved a shot? YES! (Caps Lock, so you know it's a big yes, right?) From its own team? NEVER! (again, all big and shiny) He deserved a shot because he was a stationary Light Tank and that's just stupid. But let the enemy teach him so!

Don't like people raging and ranting about how I should ride my tanks, so I believe the guy was well within his rights to waste the whole match.

one thing scouting sucks for the leopard because scouting barely pays, learned this in my t-34 and when i actually shot tanks my credits went from
4k-7k

[Fazar]

I usually stay quiet, and don't even fire in my scouts.  You got a gun that cant hurt anyone, and it basically waves a big sign saying "over here!".  Passive scouting is rough though sometimes.

[Rickholm]

leopards, stewarts, honestly...he would have been alive for what?  15 seconds on the hill or spotting in campinovka?
Much anger over nothing.

[GottaLoveIt]

POLICENITRO, on Apr 30 2012 - 18:23, said:

one thing scouting sucks for the leopard because scouting barely pays, learned this in my t-34 and when i actually shot tanks my credits went from
4k-7k

For its tier, Leopard is a pretty decent scout. Nice speed, good maneuverability, your average toothpick launcher. But yeah, comparing xp and creds from spotting an enemy to actually damaging it, scout may seem like it sucks, but it's a Leopard's job. Be it active or passive scouting. It may be a decent flanker against lower-tiers, I'll give you that.

[KilgorSoS]

The only thing the OP got right was that it was a PUB, other then that he illustrates just how dumb he, and that platoon were. Not only do other players get to tell how someone should play, but now , WHEN they play???? Please.

A scout staying alive for more then 30 seconds is ALWAYS a good thing. Ever have a scout take off when there's only 2 enemy tanks, and 2-3 enemy arty???? That can win a game.... But I guess the OP and those other asshats are now deciding WHEN scouts go, and when they do not.

The OP's thus far achievements, conclude that he is NO armchair General, more like a fold-out chair Corporal.

[Kruppcake]

Rickholm, on Apr 30 2012 - 18:42, said:

leopards, stewarts, honestly...he would have been alive for what?  15 seconds on the hill or spotting in campinovka?
Much anger over nothing.

Amen, and amen.

Another case of people trying to play everyone else's game for them.  There are a lot of reasons the Leopard could have been doing what he was doing, some good, some questionable. The point is, you don't know his thinking, you can't read the driver's mind, and shooting your own team is never justified except as a last ditch remedy for a TK'er.  

As for light tanks sniping, it depends completely on the particular battle.  In low tier battles, a sniping light can be quite effective. I do it all the time in my Stuart when I get low tier matches dominated by lights.  When I get thrown into games with mediums and heavies, it's scouting time.  Even when scouting, opportunities may present themselves for sniping at vulnerable targets, especially if you're in good cover with good camo.  A "role" for any vehicle is not a set of handcuffs shackling them to everyone else's preconceived notions, but rather a set of guidelines for how to employ a vehicle in order to maximize its strengths. There's very good reasons why proficient and capable real life armies embrace flexibility, mission-tasking and individual initiative over rigid command and control and doctrinal supremacy.  Every battle is different, and is better to respond to the battle and situation immediately at hand than it is to slavishly follow a "role."

What was the Leo up to? Who knows? Ask him. Politely. None of this "WTF Leo you tard, what the #$(*)%# are you doing?"  I wouldn't bother to answer anyone who asked like that, myself.  If he doesn't answer, there could be reasons other than he's a bot or an idiot. If there's arty needing eyes, ask him politely to scout. Recommend where he can best do so.  A lot of folks don't necessarily know how to scout just because they have a light tank, anymore than a lot of people know how to play a heavy tank when they have one.

And yes, I can hear it humming through the ether, someone is out there thinking, "Hey, I want to win and if this guy isn't doing his job and playing well, it affects me, so I have the right to be pissed at him. If he needs to be shot as motivation or an example, he deserves it for being an idiot." Frankly, this is terrible logic and not at all what teamwork is about.  Teamwork is about helping your teammates, not killing them, alienating them, humiliating them, etc.   If you can't think of anything to do that's actually helpful, then just focus on playing your game the  best you can. There's always enough going on with the enemy and the battle  to demand y our attention, you don't need to be playing everyone's tank for them.  Most of the time when folks are raging at people for doing things they don't understand, it's a case of them not having all the information and just acting immaturely out of an inability to control their own emotions and control their own virtual tounge. They're not being the brilliant motivational leaders they think they are, they're just being obnoxious.

[Shackram]

There are idiots everywhere.

Once i was in a M12 platooned to a friend on a M5.

He's playing it safe trying to spot for me while staying alive. Halfway into the match a camping allied E-75 starts to rage after a while because the M5 wasn't spotting for him and threated to shoot him if he didn't start scouting.

He then shot the M5 but missed, M5 ran away to find cover and meanwhile i put a 155mm shell on the back of the E-75 turret, which made him rethink his views.

We won the match, M5 got Scout medal and i got a Top gun.

[theshiyal]

To the allied scout killers who may read this:

If he's not "doing it right" you do know punishment is not the best motivator, right?

I mean hey you're only getting C's, you start getting B's next semester or I'm gonna beat you with a vacuum cleaner everyday til you do.  Sure it's motivation but imagine how much more motivated you'd be if you were given a $20 bill everytime you had a measurable improvement in a weeks time.

Before you yell, "That's non sequitur!!" just think if you can get the noob to realize he'd make more XP/creds if he ____________ differently, you will have accomplished three things.

1. He will not assume you are an arrogant, pretentious **** who doesn't ******* for a ******.  You will look better to the other players as well.

2. You will see the level of gameplay overall rise as those you help, help others.

3. Next time he sees you on the wrong side of the field of battle he will do his damnest to kill you, and you will have to increase you level of gameplaya well.


The course of "I KILL YOU BECAUSE YOU AREN'T LIKE ME!!! will only grief him, others and perhaps more importantly, yourself.


p.s.

Shackram, on Apr 30 2012 - 19:44, said:

There are idiots everywhere.
Once i was in a M12 platooned to a friend on a M5.
He's playing it safe trying to spot for me while staying alive. Halfway into the match a camping allied E-75 starts to rage after a while because the M5 wasn't spotting for him and threated to shoot him if he didn't start scouting.
He then shot the M5 but missed, M5 ran away to find cover and meanwhile i put a 155mm shell on the back of the E-75 turret, which made him rethink his views.
We won the match, M5 got Scout medal and i got a Top gun.

You know I may have run up against your friend and his damn M5 once.  God that was an awful game.  Malinovka (the base without the buildings.  My doggone T30 (pre- 7.2 HT) could not escape a mercy-less blasting from an arty piece that never actually hit me but landed enough shells close enough to damage me about eight times.  I could never quite hit the M5.  Blew around 6 - 8 shots at him.  FROM A G_D T30 ^*&^%#@&!!!.  I was so angry.  Best scout I ever saw.  4 of us died in that base area.

[ledhed14]

You said Your team was all camping except for a few up at windmill ..wtf was he supposed to scout for?
A campers nest?
I drive scouts - aggressive ..as recon,  but as you can see by the lack of scout medals - I NEVER suicide.
I get scout medals by accident.
I use the scout depending on the tier and opposite tanks view range.
One of two ways.
Disrupt behind the lines once map unfolds and you can see how forces are dispersed.
Or as recon in support of arty or TD with lack of view range.
High camo value tanks can sit and ambush to spoil a rush.
For example at bottom of the hill at campinova.
You guys are arty bait while he sits at bottom undetected.
If I die its for a purpose other than spots ..
That guy may have just been following the example of his team mates.
The guy who shot him should be banned.

[VirgilHilts]

Unless the guy is doing team damage and turns blue, there's no excuse for team killing. Period. He may be the worst idiot player in the game, but even that is no excuse for team killing.

[Mattar19K]

I'm curious why everyone thinks he was doing it wrong?  If a light tank has a pair of binoculars on board, he can see a hell of a lot hiding behind a bush on that map.  He lights up anything that moves on the other side so you guys can kill it.  Passive scouting is great.  Not real rewarding, but it works very well for the team.

Of course the fact that he was shooting at all pretty much discredits my theory in this particular case, but blasting him just because he's sitting still and "not scouting" is stupid and shows a clear lack of understanding of the mechanics of spotting.

[GottaLoveIt]

I seriously don`t think a light sitting RIGHT OUTSIDE his base was doing his job. He`d be spotting just as much as the whole rest of his team and that`d be it.

But yes, there have been situations when I`m on scout, notice the whole team starts camping and just find a safe spot from where to wait for some movement. Usually, a further-out spot, of course.

[ShivaX]

GottaLoveIt, on Apr 30 2012 - 18:43, said:

For its tier, Leopard is a pretty decent scout. Nice speed, good maneuverability, your average toothpick launcher. But yeah, comparing xp and creds from spotting an enemy to actually damaging it, scout may seem like it sucks, but it's a Leopard's job. Be it active or passive scouting. It may be a decent flanker against lower-tiers, I'll give you that.

And more importantly its also the job of the next tank in the line.  If you don't want to scout or spot you shouldn't be playing a Leopard.

I can forgive A-20s and 38Nas and the like, they have to go through the tank to get somewhere (though you need to learn to spot in anything, especially mediums).  For T-50s and Leos you can only go from a scouting tank to a scouting tank.  If you wont scout you shouldn't be using the tank.

[TalonV]

Hell i was in my 13 90 in Campinova and got yelled at for not going to scout.  umm scuse me?  I think my 13 90 is a bit better off holding the flank and helping the IS-3 than running out for 10 seconds and dying just some idiot arty driver can have his 1 maybe 2 shots while i get riddled with holes.

Then said arty literally came over after i told him to piss off, parked behind me and shot me in the back!

Then had the GALL to be pissed when i turned my 90mm cannon and 2 shot his ass.

Some people.  Sorry if I don't want to go out in a stupid moment of a banzai charge just so you can see the enemy for 3 maybe 5 seconds.

If a guy does not want to go rush in scouting or wants to take pot shots, it's his call not all of yours.

He wants to open up and shoot his cannon, leave him be.

Not like light tank drivers tell heavies how to drive their tanks afterall.

[Dondoh]

Anyone who says there is no money to be made scouting while your team camps is going about scouting in the wrong way. I am happy every time any of my scouts is given Campinovka and thrilled every time it is Campinovka AND high tier. Use the bushes, light folks up. Never fire your gun. Rake in the credits and xp from the big boys who eviscerate the targets you light up. Snicker at the cries of, "Hacker"...