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A guide to the misunderstood JagdPz IV

JagdPz IV German TD Guide help

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Beerstein #1 Posted May 05 2012 - 01:09

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Intro: I will say that this tank taught me more in a short time about the game than any other tank and was an amazing learning experience, my dossier may be seen in my sig. My experience in this tank involves starting with a 75% crew non premium and working past it slowly, I hated it with a passion at first, but by the time I was done I liked it and wanted more (unfortunately I didn't have the garage slots). My stats are reflected as such, grinding past a stock tank non premium, it was also the first line I went up.

My Dossier (please note that I JUST got a good enough crew to really start to shine when I sold this tank): http://wot-dossier.a.../1041122#damage

I will say that you CAN have fun in this tank but you have to consider what is said here and be willing to take that leap to do it, there will be a few small sacrifices/expenditures I will ask that you take.

Focusing on the Gun

A few facts:

(DPM=Damage per minute)
StuG III DPM: 1,817-2,148
JagdPz IV DPM: 2,310-2,574
SU-100 DPM: 1,829
Slugger/M18 Hellcat DPM: 1,800-1972.8
JagdPanther DPM: 2,333

Ferdinand DPM: 2,450-2,710
JagdTiger DPM: 2,940

It should first be noted that the JagdPanther is a wide favorite of players, with its favored gun it produces LESS damage per minute than the JagdPz IV which can actually compete with the DPM of a Ferdinand. What we're seeing here is that the JagdPz IV had a distinct damage advantage which as everyone is aware of is very hard to utilize based on the guns penetration. Does this make the JagdPz IV bad? Not even close.

The devs have heard people repeatedly complain about this tank but have not buffed it. Why? Well again look at the damage per mintue. What we're looking at is a huge POTENTIAL advantage that can only be utilized by highly skilled players. In fact it's arguably one of the best tanks in the game to run on gold ammo or even to run by a skilled player.

Okay so we've come to one conclusion: The JagdPz IV has by far the most POTENTIAL of any TD in the game. Now how do we exploit this advantage? Well let's go over a few things first.

Introduction to the JagdPz IV (what you should know and consider before buying it)
First off it's widely considered the worst tank in the game by every poll ever made, and if you run it how I did you will struggle a great deal as I did. Like most players I kept the StuG III. This only adds to the JagdPZ IVs difficulties as those who DO chose not to skip this tank, non premmies who need to farm everything etc. just cut out one of the most important necesities for this tank, a 100% crew.

What you need to consider is that this tank has very difficult penetration numbers and is generally a tank novices would want to avoid, in fact due to the stigma pretty much everyone wants to avoid it and gives it no chance. A counter to the difficult pen is its accuracy. When a shell flies out of the barrel the more straight it flies out the more direct it hits the enemy armor, this is extremely important for the JagdPz IV. Again the gun itself is extremely accurate but due to low pen you also need a skilled crew, it is the key factor in this tank to get that little extra neccisary trajectory correction.

Options and recommendations when buying: Buy a 100% crew, if you're in a StuG III play it extra to 100%+ without getting secondary skills so when you retrain it will maintain 100% crew skill, if you plan on keeping the StuG III buy a new 75% crew for the StuG III not the JagdPz IV. This is actually really important and a 75% crew will quickly become adequate for the StuG III around 80%, it will NOT be adequate for the JagdPz IV. As a side note it uses the same crewmen.

Advantages outside the gun, a profile of the JagdPz IV

Advantages: Low profile (camo), Fast, Extreme DPM, highly underestimated.
Combat styles: Assault TD, Sniper
Disadvantages: Low penetration.

Combat Techniques
Assault TD: Utilize patience and speed to safely flank enemies engaging with your allies in cities etc. it can help to play sniper a bit to wait for that opening.

Sniper: Utilize the speed to get to ideal sniping locations, use its low hard to hit profile for camo and ranged assaults, requires more knowledge of enemy weak points.

Assault Sniper: In some maps you're able to advance to a camoflauged position and actually hit enemies in the side/rear after they pass, requires a bit of map knowledge.
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What is required to run the JagdPz IV with skill?
Knowledge of enemies weak spots. This is one tank where knowing the enemy is almost more important than knowing yourself. If you find an enemy you struggle with IE the KV-3 find someone to take into a practice battle, find their weak points and how to exploit them. For example frontal sniping on the KV-3 even at longer ranges you can get a decent % chance to penetrate by aiming between the drivers port and MG (middle left side of their tank, your right their left) due to range and dispersion you have a 60% or so chance to hit one or the other. You need to know your enemies, it's the key to this tank. With a 100% crew you should be able to penetrate the side of all tier 8s as well as frontal weak points of all tier 7s, you should mostly avoid tier 9s unless you're close range flanking. A generic weak spot would be top side of the tracks. Know your enemy and again your DPM will be enough to pester anyone as long as you penetrate.
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Actually running the JagdPz IV
-First off it requires 100% crew or close. I recommend a rammer, camo net and vents or binocs.
-If you're going to consider spending gold to skip this tank consider spending gold to run gold shells instead, the game's supposed to be fun.

In closing
This isn't just a good tank, it's an amazing tank but it requires an equally amazing driver, in specific one that knows or is willing to learn their enemies weak points and I don't mean clown skins, in fact those probably wont help much in this instance as from what I've seen they're not gonna show you where you really need to aim with this tank. Anyways that's my opinion but I can say with 100% confidence that it's at the very least not a bad tank it just requires the right touch (and crew). I'm quite sad that I ended up having to sell this tank right when I felt I was getting really good with it and my crew was  getting near 100%. One thing I will say is it really does require a dedicated driver willing to learn how to engage it's common opponents.

Whee #2 Posted May 05 2012 - 01:22

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Well said! +1

I hope players will reconsider their thoughts and opinion of this tank. I certainly have not ever encountered a JP4 that pose significant threat but there is always room for potential. It's just that some players may need to study and be a lot more patient with the tank.

refinedsilence #3 Posted May 05 2012 - 06:47

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I agree.  The penetration isn't the best but when i shoot weakspots......the rof and accuracy make up for it.  i do enjoy this tank

kampfer91 #4 Posted May 05 2012 - 12:59

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Shooting the weakspot is easier to said than done .

Why the Jpz4 is so bad ?
The jpz4 is a a tier 6 TD , in tier 6 , tanks have dramastic change in the armor ( from no armor to serious armor ) , to newbies , this is kinda new to them so they struggle to cope with the change .
in these battle , ppl still have much to learn how to survive in a serious battle ( unless they're veteran and want to grind a JT ) . The 1st thing they wanna do is try to survive, and because of that , there is not much flanking opportunities .
Another reason is the TD before the JPZ4 , they all have the gun that can punch higher tier tanks with ease ( up to tier 5 ) , while the JPz4 quickly lose its power against tier 7 above ( yes , one time i have to fight against a bunch of tier 9 ) .

Even if you say the Jpz4 is good , many still find this tank by far the weakest TD of all and they will be very happy to sell it the moment they unlock JP .
I had fun times in my jpz4 , it earned the Stug-liked medal because it destroyed 2 E75s and 1 IS4 , but i was right about selling it and now in its place is a Ferdinand .

Cadmus #5 Posted May 12 2012 - 03:17

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I think the Jpz4 may see action in medium company battles now that the KV-3 has been bumped up a Tier. In a company battle you're guaranteed to not fight anyone that is immune to the 88 L/56, meaning you can bring to bear the full power of this TD's high DPM.

Lionshare #6 Posted May 12 2012 - 03:36

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View Postkampfer91, on May 05 2012 - 12:59, said:

Shooting the weakspot is easier to said than done .

Add to that, if you have a clear view of the enemy weakspots, you're way to close to them. This tank is easily destroyed in one or two shots.

This tank is very map dependent. Open field maps are not for this tank. Yes this tank can have it's moments. Moments that will make you say wow, but they are few and far between.

Last week I unwillingly went head to head with a panther sole. I won and was so amazed. Yes the Panther hit me over and over but this was one of those few times where the RnG was on my side. All he did was track me over and over and over. Honestly if he didn't keep tracking me I would have backed behind some cover.

Edited by Lionshare, May 12 2012 - 03:41.


aPyro_ #7 Posted May 12 2012 - 03:49

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Wow, just wow.

Amazing what German tank players will do to justify the awfulness of their tanks.

If it was a medium tank, it could make use of its DPM, but its not. It's a TD, it has no turret, it has bed pen, you can't possibly expect people to run around flanking in TD. The DPM is there to make up for all the bounces you will get with it's gun, flanking like a medium leaves a TD so vulnerable to attack its hilarious why you even suggested that.

All the SU-100 has to do to kill a KV-3 is peek in, nuke it for 390 damage and back off. Even with it's amazing camo, it doesn't even need to use it to kill stuff in its tier. In fact, I think the SU-100 might actually be a better flanker than the JP. With the jagpanzer IV, you have to sit there and plug away like an idiot to make use of your DPM (you could easily get smoked), with the SU-100, you can pop in for half a second and punish someone for 50% of their HP then scoot off. The SU-100 has a better top speed anyway and all of its guns are 10x better than the Jagdpanzer's.

The 85 is the gimmicky sniper gun with the accuracy and rof, still more pen than JPIV with 144.

The 100 is inbetween the 122 and 85. Pretty decent.

But the 122 is what makes the SU-100 so much better than everything in its tier. It makes people back off when they're hit with it, and in high tier games you don't have to flank like an idiot to deal damage, you can HE people in their faces real good. The SU-100 is better for the more skilled player, the Jagdpanzer IV has NO USE WHATSOEVER unless you use gold rounds to pen a KV-3 every single time so you can actually use that DPM to your advantage. A JPIV will bounce off a KV-3 50% of the time, so there goes half your DPM.

SU-100 is the way to go.

WarStore #8 Posted May 12 2012 - 04:09

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Jagdpanzer is the worst tank in the game... there is no excuse, and no wall of text will change that.

Poor accuracy, the worst penetration in the game, poor damage, bad armor...
And what is the only good thing about the tank? Speed... which turns out to be a problem. Combined with poor armor, can get you trouble real fast.

Beerstein #9 Posted May 13 2012 - 01:32

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@aPyro it is manuverbale enough to flank and can retreat to cover in cityscape, on top of that the flanking on higher tier tanks is obviously done when they're engaging an ally, they can't just turn and kill you. Does it take skill and knowledge? Yes. But I never once in my original post said I think this tank is even remotely good in novice hands. I said it has great potential in knowledgable ones. You may say it's "unrealistic" to take flanking positions but I did it and that was quite real.

@WarStone you're just spewing otherwise you would not have said "poor accuracy" the gun actually has exceptional accuracy.

Frontier_Psychiatrist #10 Posted May 13 2012 - 18:17

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There are a multitude of reasons why the JagdPz IV is a poor TD.

-Narrowest gun traverse of the German TD line.  That means it has to break camo often in order to track targets, thus negating its stealthiness.

-For some bizarre reason the devs capped its reverse speed at 9 km/h, instead of its historical 12 km/h.  This may not seem much but for a TD reversing into cover when spotted is the difference between life and death.

-Its best radio is the FuG 7, wich makes communication with spotting teammates difficult on larger maps.  For a supposed DPM sniper it needs a better radio range.

-Its view range when binos are enabled is only 415 meters, so by the time a player spots an approaching tank and opens fire they have more then likely been lit up as well.

-And of course, DPM matters little when the gun struggles to pen the majority of heavies the JagdPz IV has to face.  Shooting at weakspots is a sound strategy, provided your opponent is less than 350 meters away where it can reliably hit them.  However by then chances are it is lit up and is nothing more than a glorified sentry gun.

-There is a downside to being a DPM TD over an Alpha one.  Smart tankers will notice that bush is rapid firing at them, and will blindly return fire at it, either forcing the JagdPz IV to move or cease shooting altogether; or in some cases killing it outright.

My personal opinion is this:  I'm happy that some players like the JagdPz IV, but to me it felt more like a scavenger than a proper TD due to its matchmaking.  I managed more kills than battles in the thing, got my first Boetler's medal, but still ended my grind with only a 48% win rate.  Compared to my VK 3001 (H) experience, a tank that uses the same guns I achieved a 61% win rate, probably because I could flank.  There were many tanks I faced that I simply could not harm or when I could harm them it would be at short range and I was already lit up.  I've singlehandedly taken down Types in my Hellcat, but I could only dream of doing that in the JagdPz IV.

WoTard_VonLemming #11 Posted May 18 2012 - 15:50

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The moment I unlocked the JagdPanther, I sold my JagdPz IV, and I actually had done very well with it.  I had no complaints about the td at all, except for bouncing just enough shots that it started to make me hate playing WoT.  I still have my 3601 and love it, and it is the same reason as said earlier - the ability to flank.  If they would give the short 88 even 20mm more pen, I would buy that baby back in a heartbeat.  Maybe when they bump the 3601 up to heavy, they will up the pen so they are both more in line with other factions' heavies and TDs ... well, I can dream.

rane2k #12 Posted May 19 2012 - 16:58

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I had jagdpz researched long time ago never tried it after Stug as i was farming with Soviet tanks. But after a brake from WoT i wanted some thing more then few tanks to grind so i started grinding lots of tanks at the same time and did wonder 2 weeks to get jagdpz or not.

So last night i decided to get it. And was prepared to have bad games as stock but just needed tracks for Engine and L70 so i played some 10 games to get the tracks.
After i got the tracks, engine, L70 it really started to make difference in games.

With the L70 i have high RoF and Accuracy and with positioning your self safe even in higer tier battles i can pen quite well. ofc the damage wont be high but its fun to rapid fire KV-3 commander port with out him seeing you. As long as you keep your self hidden and aware of surroundings and dont sacriface yourself just to get one more shoot off it works fine.

Few times my engine has been hit wich is really annoying and if stock and engine hit its just better to sit still rather the try finding some one... Like one of my first games running with engine hit to eneamy base while only Panther and me left was sure the panther was heding to our base so decided to leave with some 10% and finaly after long travel with engine hit i get to the eneamy base you see panther camping with 100% hp at that point i really wished i just had skipped the run and went to get some coffe.

As for the 8.8 L56 dont have it yet so cant say but guess loosing few pen and some RoF is worth the damage gain.

I like JagdPz it isent a monster but farming Jagdpz, 13 70, vk3001h, T-34, pzIV, pz 3/4, i can make some good credit as non prem account.

Herr_Klug #13 Posted May 20 2012 - 21:06

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I'm in the process of ranking up a crew for the next German TD line on this thing. I couldn't stand it in beta, couldn't stand regrinding it when the NA server went live and I don't enjoy playing it now either. The problem I have with it is in the tiering, not so much with the vehicle itself. With the Jagdpanzer IV I just can't feel I can offer enough to help the team win and mostly reserve myself in an overwatch position or tracking those pesky scouts trying to making it though. It's easily set on fire (like my PzIII, StuG and 4502B) too.

Beerstein #14 Posted May 22 2012 - 01:32

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@Frontieer I definitely wouldn't oppose a buff to its reverse speed to historical and I do see where you're coming from, I didn't really start doing really well til I opened myself to using it as an assault gun when possible or preferable to flank enemies in cities and fields, that's when it really started to shine for me, and the crew of course. I will say that in regards to enemy return fire in bushes the low profile really helps, also when backed up enough to maintain camo they'll usually miss because of it.

@Rane2k glad you're experience is not terrible and yeah the 88 dps is by quite an extreme higher it's no contest. Also the engine is in the front.

B0X #15 Posted May 22 2012 - 01:54

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I liked the thing fairly well, its accuracy is very good and the aiming time helps with the narrow firing arc.  I managed to pull off a 59% win rate before advancing to the Jagdpanther.  The main problem, as others have said, is the matchmaking.  But even in tier 9 fights, I would still find myself penetrating the sides of their top tier tanks while hidden from return fire.

PzAbt505 #16 Posted May 25 2012 - 07:05

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worst. tank. ever.
it regularly puts me on the bottem in tier 7-10 fights a good 85% of the time. only once was I in the top 3, the devs are too malicious to ever buff it, the least that could be done is reduce its MM weight so it only sees opponents in tier 8 at worst..

25k exp untill JagdPanther and I light this POS on fire and roll it off a cliff, where it will land upside down and burn next too my M3 Lee, if your good at this tank I dont care. i regularly killed these stupid things in my Stug III, and each time knew that was gona be me down the line.. dying in 3 hits from a lower tier tank. or 2 hit from anything else that just happens to look in my general direction.

M36 and M18 have speed and a great gun. Su100 has armor and a great gun. Jagdpanzer IV has 600 hp and nothing else.. whoop de' :Smile-angry: ing doooo..  id rather it have 10 hp and a decent gun. most of the time if I get hit by anything and it shaves off 3/4ths of my health any way.. :Smile-angry: ing joke.. wg screwed this tank for no reason. and dont even try and defend it with that crap excuse of its 88mm high ROF.. higher rate of fire dosent mean **** if your gun does less damage AND pen than every one elses. go ask any char B1 driver that, he will tell you he'd rather have a 5 minute reload if it ment he could damage something.

HellinPelican #17 Posted May 25 2012 - 07:51

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The jagpanzer IV isn't the worst tank in the game, imo that honour goes to Pz 38nA.

But that said, the It doesn't perform to the same level that the other tier 6 TD do. DPM doesn't matter if you can't pen to do damage. Not to mention that DPM is worthless for TD's. To take advantage of DPM you need to have a constant LOS on the target, which means your open to arty from one direction or another. Sure the Jagpanther does less DPM, but it doesn't need DPM, it has Alpha and decent pen. If it takes a good player to do great in the JgPz IV, then they will destroy in any other tier 6 TD.

mcclada #18 Posted May 25 2012 - 17:58

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Not a bad tank...working toward the 88. I have a better win % with Marder and Hetzer. Stug matchups are way to inconsistant; top one round and on the bottom the next. But I enjoy a good challenge.

TheLastSterling #19 Posted May 25 2012 - 20:37

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Nice guide, I'm considering buying one after I have enough credit.  The problem is that I don't feel like it has enough pen based on other peoples comments.  As a panther and panther 2 drive the high pen means I am able to kill higher tanks even if the damage is low.

Beerstein #20 Posted May 26 2012 - 06:00

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View PostTheLastSterling, on May 25 2012 - 20:37, said:

Nice guide, I'm considering buying one after I have enough credit.  The problem is that I don't feel like it has enough pen based on other peoples comments.  As a panther and panther 2 drive the high pen means I am able to kill higher tanks even if the damage is low.
It's not an easy tank to master I wont lie there.





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