56 replies to this topic

[Haggis_of_Doom]

Lert, on May 06 2012 - 23:31, said:

Funny how the people who post this have 'seen it so often' but only from the side that gets spotted, not the side that's doing the spotting. I'll argue that every time this happens, the side that's doing the spotting has a forward scout. And I'm going to maintain this, until the OP posts a replay proving this false.

I'm not the OP, but I think I do have such a replay.

http://www.mediafire...p5srmdndvj3h6th

Occurs a bit over 14:30. No Patton or forward scout. If this can be explained I'd be happy to learn something new

[Sickocrow]

1) Drive Marder to either fence line.
2) Wait for Binos to kick in.
3) Spot most of enemy team moving about.
4) Enemy team gets blasted and starts raging over chat about Hax.
5) Profit!
6) Bonus scout medal.

EDIT:  Rinse and repeat with either SU-85B or T40.

Edited by Sickocrow, May 07 2012 - 06:00.

[Gohibniu]

Lert, on May 06 2012 - 23:31, said:

Funny how the people who post this have 'seen it so often' but only from the side that gets spotted, not the side that's doing the spotting. I'll argue that every time this happens, the side that's doing the spotting has a forward scout. And I'm going to maintain this, until the OP posts a replay proving this false.

Nope. Been in several matches where everything lit up at GO! Before anybody moved (everybody still has camo), and for both sides, as firing began as soon guns were loaded.

[Beerstein]

Sickocrow, on May 07 2012 - 05:57, said:

1) Drive Marder to either fence line.
2) Wait for Binos to kick in.
3) Spot most of enemy team moving about.
4) Enemy team gets blasted and starts raging over chat about Hax.
5) Profit!
6) Bonus scout medal.

EDIT:  Rinse and repeat with either SU-85B or T40.

A perfect reason why platooning a Marder II in ANY tier is a legit option. Just did it in my IS-4 cause I was sick of the people I'm getting in 5x battles and figured it was worth using a tier 9 for, worked and we ended up winning on a field push from the north on Malinkova with our other tier 9 (E-75) waiting til the enemy was out of position and pushing swamp. Kudos to him, lemme post the replay...

http://www.mediafire...o08cparjtzu427g

Binocs check, camo net check, IS-4 scout check.

[SolidBeer]

GeorgePatton, on May 07 2012 - 00:19, said:

Actually, I have been on the team that got the enemy team spotted... we had no forward scouts.


Cheers!
Glenn

But look at this...there was a Patton on your team.

[rayman4449]

There's no bug.  Someone is spotting you, I do it all the time.

[Boxhawk]

Onyx, on May 07 2012 - 00:34, said:

This is what's happening, yeah.  Though, Malinovka is still a terrible map despite this because it's next to impossible for one side to get to any real cover when spotted, and neither side can leave the base safely if scouts are in play on the other team.  Horribly designed map...

It's a great map for lower tiers though, and a good one to learn about flanking, but to see T6 arty raining death down is pure silliness.

[Beerstein]

SolidBeer, on May 07 2012 - 18:59, said:

But look at this...there was a Patton on your team.

+1 for the sense of humor that someone put a -1 on.

[hoom]

Quote

Occurs a bit over 14:30. No Patton or forward scout. If this can be explained I'd be happy to learn something new

Guy driving past the water can see undisrupted across the map to the low lying bit on the other side -> spotted.
Guy moves further up the hill & enemies move up their hill -> they disappear.

I think many people don't realise quite the extent to which their spotting is actually blocked by obstacles & terrain.

These are from a different game (R.U.S.E. I highly recommend it if you can tear yourself away from WoT!) but they give a good indication of how much of your view range is affected by that bush 60m away from you, the hill to your left & the building you're sitting next to.

http://man3k.files.w...use-beta-17.jpg



Edit:

Quote

Just did it in my IS-4

Very nice
And everyone else bear in mind thats a tank with only 350m view range before the binocs.
So imagine what a Patton could do with 420m view range & binocs in the same place.

T20 to the West is in another good early scout spot by the way.

Edited by hoom, May 07 2012 - 19:34.

[NotWatching]

Ruckex, on May 07 2012 - 03:28, said:

A tank less than 50m away should never be invisible, especially not when you can literally see pieces of his tank hanging out the second after his shot is fired.

I have indeed witnessed this, mostly on urban maps.  The "tank alley" in Himmel is a prime example.  You can sit there with your gun aimed just waiting for someone to come around the corner at damn near point blank.  Then BOOM, you just got hit and a tank appears in front of you.  I always chalked it up to server latency or how often spotting is checked or something.  But its definitely annoying when you're the one on the defensive, yet the tank driving at you somehow gets the first look.

But in terms of Malinovka...  There is no bug.  There's a scout with optics/scope/vent/skills/consumables that can see the forward tanks right off the bat.  Some tanks shoot and get lit up themselves.  Then the other team is shooting back at these and lighting themselves up more.  A scout doesn't have to sit there permanently.  All he needs to do is make the original contact then everyone shooting at each other will keep them lit.

[KiwiMark67]

Gohibniu, on May 07 2012 - 17:28, said:

Nope. Been in several matches where everything lit up at GO! Before anybody moved (everybody still has camo), and for both sides, as firing began as soon guns were loaded.

You've never had binocs mounted?
OK, let me explain - when you are waiting during the countdown the binocs kick in (after 3 seconds into the countdown, before zero) and therefore it is entirely possible for a tank to have 500m visibility the instant the countdown hits zero.  If that tank spawned in a good spot with a view across the field then most of the enemy team can be instantly lit up!

[kovacs67]

Ruckex, on May 07 2012 - 04:05, said:

You can honestly say you've never seen a tank under 50m go invisible even at low speeds or not moving?  It happens so frequently that I'm nearly convinced that the 50m rule isn't true any more.  Take a good city brawl for example.  You're peekabooming with another tank around the corner of the same building and yet you'll both go invisible during reload.  Its not until after you take damage that the guy appears mere meters away from you.  Part of it is latency due to server side calcs, but according to the game engine rules, he should never be invisible in the first place within that range.

Simply put, it's not a misunderstanding on my part.  I understand all too well how it *should* work and that is why the flaky system is so infuriating.

So you do realise you have to actually have a line of sight to see them. If they (as in your example) are around the corner & there is no line of sight from any point of the tank, they will be an "invisi" tank. The 50m limit is with camoflage. No matter how much camo you have, they will see you at 50m as long as there is a line of site.

[Grisbane]

the only "bug" on campinovka is the fact the map exists at all..  other than province, it still holds the title as "most hated"  and with that said, at least it isn't "drawvince"

[NotWatching]

kovacs67, on May 07 2012 - 23:47, said:

So you do realize you have to actually have a line of sight to see them. If they (as in your example) are around the corner & there is no line of sight from any point of the tank, they will be an "invisi" tank. The 50m limit is with camoflage. No matter how much camo you have, they will see you at 50m as long as there is a line of site.

Yes but the problem is the advancing tank makes LoS before you do coming around that corner.  How so?  His forward hull and drive gear came around that corner and was within view of both your driver's viewport and turret viewport for a split second before his own viewports could have had LoS on you.  Yet he gets the first shot and suddenly appears.  It does happen.  Try it in Himmel sometime.

[hoom]

Quote

the only "bug" on campinovka is the fact the map exists at all that noobs & mediocre players don't understand the multiple tactical opportunities it presents or how spotting works.

Fixed.

[Fazar]

Lert, on May 06 2012 - 23:31, said:

Funny how the people who post this have 'seen it so often' but only from the side that gets spotted, not the side that's doing the spotting. I'll argue that every time this happens, the side that's doing the spotting has a forward scout. And I'm going to maintain this, until the OP posts a replay proving this false.

Patton with Coated Optics, brother in arms, commander in sight, and radio man in sight?  Of course he drives down the hill a little but....

[smokntuesdays]

NotWatching, on May 07 2012 - 23:55, said:

Yes but the problem is the advancing tank makes LoS before you do coming around that corner.  How so?  His forward hull and drive gear came around that corner and was within view of both your driver's viewport and turret viewport for a split second before his own viewports could have had LoS on you.  Yet he gets the first shot and suddenly appears.  It does happen.  Try it in Himmel sometime.

Spotting is not instant.   It checks the different spotting times at different times, so it has to come back around to the forward view.   That is how it happens.   Other guy probably already had you light up.

Personally, I think the gun/gunner should be able to spot full time(as much as possible) in the direction your gun is aiming and should be given a higher view range than the turret.   I think that would help the spotting issues a great deal.