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E75 vs IS8


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Spider1g #21 Posted May 10 2012 - 00:22

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Well good for you and how clever you are to aim at specific features .. after hours of Ucoft training and hours of ohh I dunno RL battle  I aim right for the mid tank section center mass and it bounced .. aimed for the front bounced .. dont aim again cause I am dead .. look at the tech tree the IS series starts off with a 122mm main gun and ends with a 122mm main gun and furthermore I know you aint winning a race with him .. but seriously if you think its a fair match GOOD for you I dont. and since both tanks are fantasy I think it should be otherwise what tends to happen is everybody plays Russians which ohh btw isnt good for business.

Actually I take that back for MM its very good for business they love when you have to start all over again to keep up with the joneses its more money in their pockets and I say that because the grind to get a E-75 is insane without at least spending some money for credits. 3,000,000 at 1,500 average per game is insane. Thank god for my type 59 so I can at least farm free experience and convert it.


View PostKristine, on May 09 2012 - 23:45, said:

Odd, i was bouncing rounds against IS-8's earlier off my E-75 armour. Not only that, the IS-8's armour is absurdly squishy as hell and the engine is as flammable as the Tiger H's engine.  I was actually surprised i set it on fire on my first shot on the front :lol:....

Edited by Spider1g, May 10 2012 - 00:36.


TheBaronmk1 #22 Posted May 10 2012 - 00:32

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Came across a whole raft of IS8's yesterday - i find it a laughable tank - absolute glass cannon.

Held up two of them in my VK4502A on the sunken road at Abbey.  Got one down to 140 odd hp with the 10.5cm before they killed me.

Later in the E100 I was regularly landing full 800hp shots into their hull while they ping back for 250 odd.

They are very fast though - heck as fast as my T59 when I ran with one on Mines to the hill......

Just my 2c but the E-75 seems a lot tougher...... as does the M103

Cheers

The Baron

PS Lets talk about it in 2 weeks when everything has settled down and there is a bit more statistical evidence....... maybe I just got lucky  ;-)

stcrazy #23 Posted May 10 2012 - 00:43

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hmmmm   captain they must have been gold rounding me , im scared to try it again the way i always did with the old is4 ..

hunteralex #24 Posted May 10 2012 - 05:33

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e75 just laughs about the new soviets tanks, is4 is the same tank with a pew pew gun, is8 is a taller is3 with worst armor, a good drived e75 bounces shells like hell from them, even with those guns.

Whyan #25 Posted May 10 2012 - 05:42

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View PostConcept6, on May 09 2012 - 04:46, said:

the hull may be a joke until they figure out how to use them hull down and then its lights out good bye German tanks.... which is exactly what is already happening.

First off, find me a place where the IS8 can hull down and still be able to shoot? Second, even if it does hull down, the turret armour, being tall and less sloped than the IS-3's turret, can be pen'd by T8+ guns. Yea, sure lights out E-75.

Edited by Whyan, May 11 2012 - 02:00.


Spider1g #26 Posted May 10 2012 - 16:32

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You guys are posting like your just mowing them down! Please enlighten me perhaps its my bad luck ... I have tried at least 20 more battles same results "that shot didnt go through ",or  "we didnt penetrate". My armor seems to be adequate, but my gun just isn't up to the task on the IS4 or the IS8. Occassionally I can catch them broadside and rear and get some decent damage and then when he turns to face its over.. I don't find the gun laughable or dismissive, further more I have been watching other E-75's have the exact same problem. SO you few that bothered to brag and post are either really really good and I am horrible (that wouldnt shock me at all) or its something else. where are you setting your aim reticle.

The Front Lower hull seems to be a weak spot if you can hit it close in.. but from a distance I rarely can see the line and hes not soo stupid as to present this meaning they hide hull down behind rocks and inch forward.
If your using the 128 to kill them that I believe! .. I do not have that weapon and its freakin 40,000 experience to go.. lots more deaths..

Edited by Spider1g, May 10 2012 - 17:15.


redhairdave #27 Posted May 10 2012 - 18:17

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Quote

IS8 is funny to brawl against. Remember hes got no gun depression so if you close distance on him he simply can't hit your lower plate. Angle front hull a bit and laugh as he bounces off you.

If you want a laugh watch an IS8 try to fight on a hill. Its hilarious as you shoot him with no chance of him lowering his gun enough to hit you.

he can pen the turret face easily, i would not suggest face hugging. long range is a better protection.

Spider1g #28 Posted May 10 2012 - 21:06

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I quit! no more E-75 for me the Forum is right no more German tanks.... I played my T-20 and put the hurt on one of them with a 90mm gun and he couldnt outrun me .. theres definately a bias towards the German tanks

kin3 #29 Posted May 11 2012 - 00:00

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In real life most of the heavies in this game couldn't get off the roads because they would mire down in the dirt.

TheBaronmk1 #30 Posted May 11 2012 - 00:16

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View PostSpider1g, on May 10 2012 - 16:32, said:

If your using the 128 to kill them that I believe! .. I do not have that weapon and its freakin 40,000 experience to go.. lots more deaths..

Well yes actually I am using the 128 on the E75 - its kind of essential.....

All tanks are pretty terrible stock and really only show their performance at elite level.

I promise - an elited E75 is arguably the best Tier 9 out there - persist and enjoy the payback you will give

Cheers

The Baron

B4BYR4C3R #31 Posted May 11 2012 - 00:30

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View PostSpider1g, on May 09 2012 - 21:58, said:

No it was not the VK3001H was not a replacement for the Panzer IV

VK3001(H) WAS indeed designed as a successor the the PzIV.  Originally, it was intended to mount VK3001(H) with a 75mm L/24 or 105mm L/28 gun but neither of the four prototypes (more on those later) were actually fitted with turrets. Development for the 3001 was cancelled in 1942 in favour of the Tiger I's development.


View PostSpider1g, on May 09 2012 - 21:48, said:

By the way the VK3001 H came standard with 128.

View PostSpider1g, on May 09 2012 - 21:58, said:

it was a self propelled gun there were only 2 both fairly successful

VK3001(H) was neither designed nor fitted standard with a 128, nor was it designed as a self propelled gun. 3001 was designed as a medium and the gun option have already been quoted above.

Two of the four completed prototype 3001 hulls were converted and served as recovery, training and test vehicles whilst the remaining two were heavily modified for the 128mm PaK 40 L/61 gun to be become the 12.8cm Selbstfahrlafette L/61(Panzerselbstfahrlafette V) - otherwise known as the Sturer Emil. So heavily were these two hulls modified they can in no way be considered as being a VK3001(H) any longer, the same as a Stug III can no longer be considered as a Pz III.

Source - http://www.achtungpanzer.com/heu.htm

btw I didn't neg you despite how grossly incorrect you have been.

(edited for grammar...hey, I'm fussy)

Edited by B4BYR4C3R, May 11 2012 - 09:37.


WarZ #32 Posted May 11 2012 - 03:47

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Not sure how they changed the armor on the IS's or changed something else, however, I am noting that I am bouncing way way more shots off of IS8's and IS4's with E75 than I was in the weeks leading up to the patch.  IS4 somewhat understandable being t10, but I'm now finding it harder to pen than an IS7.  Clean on side shots usually arent an issue, however most shots arent clear on side due to the way most fights play out.  Those angled peek a boo brawls have become soo much harder against the upper tier IS's :(

Can someone tell me how they can justify putting a 268 pen gun on those tanks ?  Given all their other benefits vs. the german tanks ?  Speed, armor/bouncing, and pen.  Is our big claim to fame still "marginally" better accuracy for all that trade off ???

Schrollski #33 Posted May 11 2012 - 03:51

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View PostMow_Mow, on May 09 2012 - 02:09, said:

IS-8's hull armor is a joke.

Just like so many other tanks in this game.

View PostWarZ, on May 11 2012 - 03:47, said:

Not sure how they changed the armor on the IS's or changed something else, however, I am noting that I am bouncing way way more shots off of IS8's and IS4's with E75 than I was in the weeks leading up to the patch.  IS4 somewhat understandable being t10, but I'm now finding it harder to pen than an IS7.  Clean on side shots usually arent an issue, however most shots arent clear on side due to the way most fights play out.  Those angled peek a boo brawls have become soo much harder against the upper tier IS's :(

Can someone tell me how they can justify putting a 268 pen gun on those tanks ?  Given all their other benefits vs. the german tanks ?  Speed, armor/bouncing, and pen.  Is our big claim to fame still "marginally" better accuracy for all that trade off ???

E-75 is still one of my favorite tanks in game, never have a problem with Soviet armor. E-100 is slower to reload and less accurate so you have to be more careful with your shots, but it'll pen all the same, and do more damage.

lostwingman #34 Posted May 11 2012 - 04:03

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View PostTheBaronmk1, on May 10 2012 - 00:32, said:

PS Lets talk about it in 2 weeks when everything has settled down and there is a bit more statistical evidence....... maybe I just got lucky  ;-)

Nope, we are in a new age where every patch pisses off a new group of people! It's now the Soviet drivers turn!

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Spider1g #35 Posted May 11 2012 - 13:42

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View PostB4BYR4C3R, on May 11 2012 - 00:30, said:

VK3001(H) WAS indeed designed as a successor the the PzIV.  Originally, it was intended to mount VK3001(H) with a 75mm L/24 or 105mm L/28 gun but neither of the four prototypes (more on those later) were actually fitted with turrets. Development for the 3001 was cancelled in 1942 in favour of the Tiger I's development.


View PostB4BYR4C3R, on May 11 2012 - 00:30, said:

VK3001(H) WAS indeed designed as a successor the the PzIV.  Originally, it was intended to mount VK3001(H) with a 75mm L/24 or 105mm L/28 gun but neither of the four prototypes (more on those later) were actually fitted with turrets. Development for the 3001 was cancelled in 1942 in favour of the Tiger I's development.





VK3001(H) was neither designed nor fitted standard with a 128, nor was it designed as a self propelled gun. 3001 was designed as a medium and the gun option have already been quoted above.

Two of the four completed prototype 3001 hulls were converted and served as recovery, training and test vehicles whilst the remaining two were heavily modified for the 128mm PaK 40 L/61 gun to be become the 12.8cm Selbstfahrlafette L/61(Panzerselbstfahrlafette V) - otherwise known as the Sturer Emil. So heavily were these two hulls modified they can in no way be considered as being a VK3001(H) any longer, the same as a Stug III can no longer be considered as a Pz III.

Source - http://www.achtungpanzer.com/heu.htm

btw I didn't neg you despite how grossly incorrect you have been.

(edited for grammar...hey, I'm fussy)



VK3001(H) was neither designed nor fitted standard with a 128, nor was it designed as a self propelled gun. 3001 was designed as a medium and the gun option have already been quoted above.

Two of the four completed prototype 3001 hulls were converted and served as recovery, training and test vehicles whilst the remaining two were heavily modified for the 128mm PaK 40 L/61 gun to be become the 12.8cm Selbstfahrlafette L/61(Panzerselbstfahrlafette V) - otherwise known as the Sturer Emil. So heavily were these two hulls modified they can in no way be considered as being a VK3001(H) any longer, the same as a Stug III can no longer be considered as a Pz III.

Source - http://www.achtungpanzer.com/heu.htm

btw I didn't neg you despite how grossly incorrect you have been.

(edited for grammar...hey, I'm fussy)



Grossly incorrect?? Thats an ignorant statement. Even though you acknowledge there were 2 of them with 128's ............Ok, and yes you can read your designator your way I will read it right from the BOOK. Not a web site no offense to you youngsters that like websites for your info ....You have the same book right? Because I trust it over............ Achtung Panzer WEB site any day of the week!!

For starters the correct Designator for the VK 3001H is in fact Panzerkampfwagen VI (but clearly this is not a TIGER?) of which 4 prototype chassis were built.  Heres is your history lesson from a much better source. I really recommend Books over Websites they tend to be better researched.

On Sept 9th 1938 the Waffenamt (Ordinance Department) authorized Henchel to start work on a proposal to meet the VK 3001 specification. Henchel based their VK 3001 (H) on the DW II proto-type: however dry pin tracks were used in place of needle-bearing tracks Early in 1940, the first test trials began and a test series of eight were ordered, The first VK3001(H) was ready in March 1941, but in May less than 2 months later it was decided to ****   ABANDON *****  the project in favor of developing the VK 3601. Two of the VK 3001(H) were in fact completed in Oct 1941. The exsisting-chassis only vehicles were used extensively during the testing of the VK 3601 and later the VK4501 (H). After the war had ended a single  VK3001 (H) was recovered from the Henschel proving ground intact and in running order. Twelve turrets were built by Krupp, Six were armed with KwK L 24 were issued for mounting in permanent emplacements.

Combat service: NONE. used in trial and test vehicle and in driver training schools

NOTE- never recieved a turret, never saw combat as the medium tank version.



The 12.8 Selbstfahrlafette L61 (Panzerselbstfahrlafette V)

PLEASE NOTE - Other designations VK3001 (H), Pz SflV


As a result of the decision to abandon the VK3001 project the waffenamt had on hand several chassis. TWO were allocated for conversion to a heavy Panzerjager mounting the Rheinmetall 12.8cm K which was based on the 12.8 cm Flak. The gun was mounted on a pedastal ahead of the engine and was surrounded by a heavily armoured superstructure. The Hull was extended back to carry this fighting compartment, an additional road-wheel was fitted. Photographs of a completed 12.8cm Sf L/61 are dated 9 March 1942. The Gerat 40 had been developed since 1936 as a Flak weapon. The order for the anti-tank version was placed in 1939.

Combat service: The 12.8 Sf L/61 officially known as VK3001 (H) was used in action in Russia and one was captured almost in tact late in 1943. It was subsequently displayed in exhibitions held in 1944. Photographs of a single vehicle in action indicate 22 kill rings painted on the gun barrel !!

There was a 10.5 cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IV a tested along side it in the  521st  Panzer Jaeger Detachment. It was a highly successful unit, accounting for itself well.

Now correct me if I am wrong here but it sounds to me like you have been reading the Achtung Panzer web site and taking it for Gospel. Not a good idea. Its a great website if you want a basic working knowledge of German armor but far from the final word. Having visited many German tank museums first hand I find reading helps.

And I didnt grief on you I simply stood by my statement, dont snipe at me like some little young pup.

I will spell check it for you so you feel all warm and fuzzy, but lets be clear one of these was relagated to a training vehicle, and one of these vehicles actually went to war and earned the VK3001 (H) name.


Technically both vehicles were designated the 3001(H), My book, the German Tank Encyclopedia a rare book I might add, says it was, not some WEBSITE. But this is Trivial at best and quite frankly my basic statement was true and most of these people don't care or want to know.

The VK 3001 (H) that actually saw combat came equipped with a 128L61. THAT IS FAR FROM GROSSLY INACCURATE!


Panzerkampfwagen VI ausf E was also known as the Tiger, VK 4501(H), Sd kfz 181 .. Welcome to the confusing world of German nomenclatures.

By the way your original statement was, it was designed as a replacement for the panzer IV?? GO BACK AND READ IT .. No it was apparently the test bed for the TIGER I .. now whose grossly inaccurate???  That would be speculative on your part at best, and or anybody else who makes that statement, since clearly the Tiger series was a HEAVY tank which is a totally different class of vehicle. It is possible, but highly unlikely that it was a replacement for the Panzer IV.

Edited by Spider1g, May 11 2012 - 15:19.


Mow_Mow #36 Posted May 11 2012 - 16:12

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The VK3001H with 12.8cm you are referencing is Sturer Emil, if I am not mistaken. An experimental tank destroyer with an early variant of Jagdtiger's gun mounted on a stretched VK3001H chassis.

By the way, AFAIK, VK3001 project was for a 30 ton tank, which eventually lead to Panther. VK3601 project was what eventually lead to Tiger, IIRC.

Edited by Mow_Mow, May 11 2012 - 16:13.


Spider1g #37 Posted May 11 2012 - 16:37

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View PostMow_Mow, on May 11 2012 - 16:12, said:

The VK3001H with 12.8cm you are referencing is Sturer Emil, if I am not mistaken. An experimental tank destroyer with an early variant of Jagdtiger's gun mounted on a stretched VK3001H chassis.

By the way, AFAIK, VK3001 project was for a 30 ton tank, which eventually lead to Panther. VK3601 project was what eventually lead to Tiger, IIRC.

I think in truth it lead it was possibly a test bed for alot of things.... It was officially named the Panzerkampfwagen VI .. that is the name for the Tiger I E .. I am sure there was alot of renaming and re-designating in the 1940's as different manufacturers came out with failed desgins. It happens the VK3001 (H) that had no TURRET and was relegated to a training tool .. was one such failed design.  The version that went to war was the Emil and there were 2.  

All of this was born out of an arguement that the E-75 another failed design ...should probably start with a low velocity 128 and work into a high velocity 128... this is fantasy NOTHING historical..... since no turret was ever made for the E-75. Its my thoughts for making it fair fight in light of the fact that the IS starts with a 122 and ends with a 122.... The German line is woefully inadequate IMHO to deal with the new Russian super tanks.

zephoid #38 Posted May 11 2012 - 17:14

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"new Russian super tanks"...... someone needs to play the russian line a bit to understand these tanks are anything but "super".

IS: 122mm is about as inaccurate as you can get without being a derp gun. Add to that 175 pen and you have a gun that cant hit weak points, is hard to pen with, and and has only the damage going for it. Add it to a tank that has mediocre armor and mediocre speed and its nowhere near OP. It is the worst of the tier 7 heavies.

IS3: Teir 8 heavies are all very well balanced. They each have their own playstyles but the tiger 2 is no pushover by any means. I like the IS3 the best because of its profile and speed, but its personal here.

IS8: 120mm of front armor at teir 8 is like the old T34: paper. 200mm turret armor is nothing to be excited about either. Cannon is very good, speed is above average (not at teir 9 med, but better than almost every heavy tank) but it turns slowly. Of the 3 real teir 9 heavies (4502 is a joke) this is the weakest 1v1. It can dish out hits and is great at taking out lots of 8s, but big guns (200+ pen) tear this thing apart. Low engine and fuel tank hp is also a problem.


ST1: Good all around tank, slightly better than the old is4 because it lacks the front driver slit, but nothing amazing. Havent played it since test 1, so it may be slightly changed, but it felt very similar to the old is4 in most regards, IS8 generally better because the armor is still weak to teir 9s and mobility on is8 is better. If it had the S70, maybe it would be comparable, but it just doesnt do anything very well.


IS4: worst of the teir 10s.  It does nothing that the IS7 and T110 dont do better. Low armor, low speed, and still has the 30mm turret roof that arty goes through like paper. E100 has lots of uses in CW as a high alpha city fighting tank. We run 6 on our ruinberg normal strategy. The IS4 has no forseeable use besides being a fill-in for 7s and 110s if your clan doesnt have them.

The E75 is still the best teir 9 heavy. Despite your inability to use it effectively, it remains one of the few teir 9s that can effectively combat teir 10s 1v1. Very good frontal armor, good gun, great HP/ton (though engine damage is a problem) , and enough mobility to get it around the battlefield and combat other heavy tanks effectively.


I know i wont convince you. You have it dead set in your head that the german line is nerfed to hell and you wont come out even if the germans had a 55% win ratio. The germans dont need a 128mm low velocity cannon. Historically the germans main guns were 75mm and 88mm high veilocity cannons. Russians used 100mm and 122mm lower velocity guns. Guess what, thats what they have in game. Having an outlier with a 128mm gun that was scrapped as a inferior prototype doesnt mean you should place a whole tank line around having 128mm cannons. If you want bigger, slower guns, go russian lines. Not every faction has to have mirrored tank lines.

This game CANNOT have realistic tank fighting mechanics. Where 1 penitrating shot could destroy most tanks, combat was also not concluded in 15 mins. Having 1-shot sniper wars would make the game incrediblty long and boring. Ever have a sniper war in ARMA or BF2:PR? It can take 10-30 mins to finally have one person die. You also have to look at the tank counts of what was in the war . EVERYONE wants to drive a tiger 2, pershing,IS3 or other big tanks. No one wants to be in the M4, PZ4,T34, or other equivalent being 1 shot by supperior tanks. But thats how the war was. For every tiger 2 produced there were hundreds of M4/M4 variant, PZ3/PZ4s,T34/KVs. You cannot have a multiplayer game where this produces a positive dynamic. Yes, a lot of these tanks are fictional, but so are the tank counts and compositions being used in this game. If you want a tank simulator, go play one, this isnt it.

Edited by zephoid, May 11 2012 - 17:53.


Spider1g #39 Posted May 11 2012 - 17:26

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Yes you cant convince me This is very true. When every time I go into battle these days I get " we lost some ammo" and my turret explodes or "we have an engine fire" "we better put that out" and I watch my HP dwindle to nothing while both of those tanks speed around me in a circle.. Yeps your not gonna convince me.. If I hear that "that one bounced" once I have heard it 50 times..  NO sorry I dont buy it. Perhaps its because in the pub games I play I keep getting 4 Tier X's per side and I am not winning those matches. Maybe if your going to say its a better fight you could post some tactics about how not to be over run by these tanks .. ohh boy and not look like a camper at the same time, because I get criticed either way I go and dead just the same. Again this is just in MHO .. I think the E-75 is squishy.

And I agree with all you said and the gun issues .. but that IS series you think is garbage .. ok well here's the thing. I dont think they are and btw those tanks are FANTASY.. You playing against tanks that are fantasy and your comparing them to Historical ones and saying the 128 was a failed GUN.. REALLY ??? Otto Carius thought the gun was fine. What failed was the Carriage and the mount, not the gun. What??? Even I am not soo silly as to think that you can make historical references to those IS tanks.. my thought was since your making FANTASY tanks anyways .. why not pretend they solved the problem .. or why make the grind so freaking hard . you say we dont have to have mirrored tanks?? Yes we do, otherwise it really wouldnt be fair and nobody would bother with playing a different line.. that arguement doesnt hold up. Hey I dont care if you don't like my idea about the 128 thats silly how about you dont make the engine light up like a christmas tree when it gets plinked by anything ..and the 128L  you get it in the end anyways, once you complete the 54,000 xp grueling grind.. so again WHAT????? I am saying the FANTASY 105 mounted in it is PURE FANTASY .. its not real .. THERE IS NO TURRET in existance for the E-75. THERE NEVER WAS, THERE NEVER WILL BE .. ITS A FANTASY TANK completely MADE UP ... christ for all anybody knows the gun could have been a 75L24 .. there never was a MAUS .. either .. not a working one anyway..

In the words of TATU "Welcome to fantasy Island"

Edited by Spider1g, May 11 2012 - 18:03.


Elementalism #40 Posted May 11 2012 - 18:18

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IS4 worst T10? Hardly, that is probably the AMX 50B or the E100 or both. The IS4 is not as versatile as the IS7 or T110E2 but it is good enough.

Anyways without seeing any ST1's yet. I think the change up in the T9s on the Soviet side may have stealth vaulted the E75 back on top. The IS8 is not a heavy at all. It is a heavier, slower medium. The gun is nice but the armor is a joke and speed is meh. It is nice to use in conjunction with other mediums as it adds muscle to that push. But with other heavies I think it is cannon fodder. Between the E75 and IS8? I prefer the E75!




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