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thejoker91, on May 10 2012 - 01:25, said:

Because you are obviously new to online gaming, i will be nice and explain "pay 2 win".

Pay to win is a general term used to describe any game that offers a real advantage over other players for real cash.
It does not imply actually "winning", any advantage that you can only get from real life cash, and is not readily available to all players in some form is "pay to win", ie: gold ammo.
WG did a good job offering premium tanks that can be bought for cash, but are balanced and certainly not more powerful than same tier tanks that can be gained through the "grind" in game.


Pay to win is a disgusting blight in online gaming, and usually points to a quick "cash grab" type game ( there are exceptions), we as players should reject it at every turn.

Captain_Locke, on May 10 2012 - 01:30, said:

Well put.

I don't know if it is me, now i do not buy premium tier 8 tanks or any of the other premiums, but i did enjoy eating them alive in my IS-3 and IS-4. Anyway that was not my point, from my observations it is tier 6 and down that usually complain about not penning sometimes 7, and on occasion tier 8's and 9's if they are having a bad day. If a tier 10 does not pen then that person has issues and does not deserve the tank.

PS. I will admit i do get into the game, but I have learned take 90% as a joke and you will remain cool and the game will remain forever fun. I wish everyone  to have fun and good luck with their real life as well as their virtual one.

LOL i say this and boom negative rep. Wow people come on it is a game, relax. Sit back and smile.
Edited by kpoe, May 10 2012 - 02:02.

Stinkey, on May 10 2012 - 01:19, said:

Look at other "free to play" titles that refuse to sell anything that offers in game essential combat advantage for real world currency.   That doesn't mean that you can't still make money on premium accounts, cosmetic items, garage slots, crew retrains, and a million other micro-transactions, etc., but it does mean you don't sell armor upgrades or better guns (which is essentially what gold ammo is, since it ups penetration usually by a tier) that you can't get just by playing.

And for those new to the argument, "pay to win" means "pay for competitive advantage", it doesn't mean its literally impossible to lose if you fork over some cash.

Stinkey, on May 10 2012 - 01:10, said:

That is such a pathetically narrow minded viewpoint. So I'm bad if I use the items the game gives me and not the items I have to spend actual money on to get? Dude, your logic makes no sense. Actually, never mind. If wasting your money makes you happy, I'm not going to tell you to stop wasting it. It's actually kinda funny from my end.

Robbyx, on May 10 2012 - 01:41, said:

Gold ammo doesnt offer a real advantage, its a circunstancial one at most. It doesnt guarantee pen, it can be overcome with careful aiming, and its just as prone to bounce and do 0 dmg crits as everything else.

Also, under that term, premium account and premiun tanks are also pay to win, because they offer an advantage that you cant get withouth paying, so how the hell is the game supposed to make money of? gold cammo?

thejoker91, on May 10 2012 - 01:57, said:

Gold tanks are a disadvantage because they have weaker stats than the same tier. Premium accounts offer no advantage during a battle. This is why they're not considered pay to win. Pay to win isn't you pay money and auto win a battle. It's buying an advantage...any advantage during a fight.

We all know this isn't going to change right ? Gold rounds are here to stay, it just comes down to a choice on if you use them or not.

Ducman69, on May 10 2012 - 01:12, said:

I think what hes getting at is hes tired of the constant complaints about having bought his tank. So he is striking out by returning the name calling. While I don't agree with his delivery he has a point. Many people spend 20 dollars on a movie or 75 dollars for a game of golf, if people want to spend their entertainment money on a tank that they can enjoy for as long as the game exists, then he should be able to do so without the have-nots giving him a hard time about it constantly.

Damonvile, on May 10 2012 - 02:04, said:

Well, as far as I used, pay to win was buying a decisive advantage, not a tiny one that barely has any effect on the outcome of a battle.

Ducman69, on May 10 2012 - 01:43, said:

the only advantage of buying a wallet tank is your credit income. the fact is the tanks are weaker the standard tanks.

Damonvile, on May 10 2012 - 01:28, said:

So, in this case, what do expect people to use?...HE? Some tanks don't get access to HE, the Churchill for example, are these tanks supposed to just sit there and take what you dish out with no chance to retaliate or use whatever resources are at their disposal to be a team asset?

Gold rounds are a part of the game and are in no way a guarantee of a win, they still have to hit the target and there is a fair chance that gold they fired will bounce. Hit or miss, bounce or penetrate that shot just payed for this game to go on just a little longer.

I don't use gold rounds as I find I do well enough without them but I have no issue with anyone that does use them, they have their reasons as to why they do and I have absolutely NO right whatsoever to say they are wrong. It's THEIR money not mine.


Funny fact: I have 10 premium tanks of varying tiers (not all have been used yet) and just realized I only paid for 2 of them

B4BYR4C3R, on May 10 2012 - 04:22, said:

About the same,

I have a few different prem. tanks. I only use a few that I like. Also used a few gold rounds in pub matches, didn't really see a clear difference than normal ap or he rounds.

Gold ammo does provide an advantage for real money, even if it is a slight one. A player using gold ammo should always do better than the same player not using gold ammo. If this wasn't true, nobody would buy it.

Thus gold ammo is a 'pay-to-win' style advantage. It doesn't matter that it's not hugely decisive, it is an advantage.

Yes I use them, but rarely in pubs.

People complaining about gold ammo usage have a point (and the right to have an opinion). People complaining about premium tanks, not so much.

Captain_Locke, on May 10 2012 - 01:30, said:

Gold rounds can give the user the impression that they are better players. It really doesn't mean much if you beat a tier 8 with a tier 9 because you loaded gold rounds just so you could kill him. On the flipside it does mean quite a lot when you are a tier 7 tank and you harass an enemy tier 8 or 9 tank and get him killed because you are a smarter or better player.

paying for a game and pay to win are two different things.

as i see it, if you spend money on a game your buying time. premium lets you level through the tanks faster, gold can be exchanged for money and turn xp to free xp wich also allows you to level through the tanks faster.

i have no problem with that, some people have money but no time and thats fine.

if you spend money to increase your killing power (gold rounds) or better tanks (gold tanks, not sure about this as i dont think they are "better") relitive to another player. then you are a pay to win, and i wish much bad stuff on you in real life

Sorry, but gold rounds give a huge advantage.

Anyone disputing that is in denial. Simple as that.

I think the OP is confused.  Your reference to Occupy is bad, and you should feel bad.

Lets make this simple.  I don't need Gold rounds or premium tanks to spank the wimp warriors posting on this topic.  Gold is an option given by the creators of the game.  IF you decide not to use that option that's your free choice...It's not my fault your to stupid to make a smart decision.

I only use Gold rounds against my tougher opponents in clan wars and they do the same.  None of us need Gold rounds for pubbies as their stupidity is the biggest weapon we use against them.

For you cry babies, uninstall and try something different or learn to play.

I've included the UK address in case you want to squat. (It's a central location to meet)

From here on out you you can call your movement "Occupy Bawl Street".

Wargaming.net, LLP
60 Cannon Street, London,
EC4N 6NP, UK


Signed the 1%
Edited by Phantombari78, May 10 2012 - 14:25.

Look, you want an example of a pay to win game, Tribes: Ascend is a great example, gold currency can be used to unlock every upgrade and weapon/equipment. the halarious thing is, its extremly balanced in regards to the fact that a noob with the right grasp of the movement system of the game, which is a key component for combat, can totally wreck a decked out "gold" player. sure its frustrating when some asshole is utterly raping any attempt to repair your team's generator, but it balances out in the fact that players who dont use the gold economy that know how to play often wreck any "gold" player anyday.

Note, I'm not dissing on Tribes: Ascend, its quite fun and fast paced, its just frustrating when some asshole Infiltrator class with a Jackal and their stealth system rape anything that tries to enter the generator room. Obviously anyone that hasnt played the game is WTFing over what i'm on about, all i can say is go play Tribes, its a fun game.

Stinkey, on May 10 2012 - 01:19, said:

Obviously you forgot that online players, for the most part, want a purely equal setting.  This is why first person shooters, wow and other mind numbing games of those kinds are so popular.  Anything that offers a perceived or actual edge is naughty and will be burned at the stake in the form of whines.  The interesting thing about tanks is that the very same people that complain about these issues love the game.  It's a bitter sweet rage they feel.  Delicious.