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alyksandyr, on May 16 2012 - 15:53, said:

that's not the issue. you have limited equipment slots and crew skills, the real question is could you get more of an advantage with other skills/equipment? repair is a 50% decrease in repair time, 100% camo doubles your camo rating etc. compare this to a 2.2% increase in several areas from BiA, whats more useful to you? generally youd want repair and camo first.

ed_anger, on May 16 2012 - 16:16, said:

Depends on the tank. Camo is irrelevant on most heavies.

Garbad, on May 16 2012 - 16:19, said:

again, depends on the tank (if you look at the chart), for example most RU heavies have useful camo when still. plus there might be other more useful skills/equipment, rammer/egld/vert stab for example over a vent. im not saying a vent and/or BiA isnt useful, but its not the first setup i use on every tank.

edit: yeah, i know the chart is a year old. old doesnt mean obsolete, unless you know the values have vastly changed, and people have posted new results.

i dont know what you would want camo for, unless your a td. i play mostly heavies. its all about keeping the gun working faster and faster with more accuracy.

ed_anger, on May 16 2012 - 16:21, said:

Chart is a year obsolete.

Personally, every UC tank should have BIA on it. Reason being is that the crew needs to be the best it can be, even miniscule advantages can be blown into larger advantages by terrain, player skill, HP pools, so on and so forth.

I'm just saying...who wins...an IS-7 with a 12 second reload, or an IS-7 with a 12.2 second reload? (Note: That's not the RoF of the IS-7)

Vent + BiA on everything I can. Eve taught me that small stuff adds up.

Gyarados, on May 16 2012 - 16:27, said:

The one that spots and fires first will win the most.

Since BIA and vents affect whole tank performance, they're best for tanks that use their mobility and weapons a lot or tanks that have done everything else to boost their specialty and still have room. It's up to player behavior, there are some tanks that benefit more from a vstab rammer GLD combo or binoc camo combo. And there are some that need every bit of extra mobility they can get.

Gyarados, on May 16 2012 - 16:27, said:

But how many times two equal tanks just sit still, exchanging shots without moving their hull or their aim and without being interfered by other tanks, plus having each shot pen and for similar damage?

In practice a .2 decrease in reload time(or aim time, or a 2% increase in acceleration or 2% more view range) will rarely define or sway the outcome an engagement. Player skill and terrain can also deny someone else advantage or minimize his own disadvantage.

Sure, small things add up IF you can have enough small things to add up.

But in WoT you are limited to the number of modules you can use and skills increase in cost to train. Plus BIA is the only skill that the whole crew needs to have(and at 100%) to start working. You might be squandering a larger advantage for a negligble boost.

As I see it, on a typical heavy, say an IS-3

First skill:
6th sense <-- critical on any tank
repair on all others

Second skill:
BIA

Why?  Because compare it to the alternatives. Camo is useless, firefighting isn't really needed with the consumable, and most of the other skills are junk. Imagine BIA vs. 4 other useful perks:

Commander - recon - 2% view range
Gunner - Snap shot 7.5% less dispersion
Driver - clutch breaking, 5% faster turning
Loader - reduced chance of ammo rack, not really that helpful

vs.

5% more repair, view range, top speed, traverse, acceleration, reload, aiming time, dispersion, turret traverse, radio range, all apply even with a dead crew

Its not even close. On a medium/light/td/arty, you typically need repair and camo first, so BIA has to be your third skill. But on most heavies, BIA is king.

Garbad, on May 16 2012 - 19:16, said:

its not a 5% bonus, its a 2.2% bonus. its a 5% bonus to crew level (same for vents).

Garbad, on May 16 2012 - 19:16, said:

Commander: Recon-2% view range | BiA-2% view range
Driver: Clutch braking-5% traverse |  BiA-2% traverse + 2% acceleration
Gunner: Snapshot-7.5% less dispersion (almost half a vstab) | BiA-2% aim time + 2% dispersion
Radioman: Situational awareness-3% view range | BiA-lol radio range is worthless when you already have top radio
Loader: Safe stowage-12.5% ammo rack hp | BiA-2% faster reload

I don't see how BiA is better than these skills. You can even pick some different skills in some cases than the ones on the left and still turn out better.

Also, according to Serb, they might fix it in the future so that when a crew member is knocked out, it stops working. They haven't been too clear though (imagine that).

0003, on May 16 2012 - 20:35, said:

Fixed, and let's sum it up:

Randoms:
2.8% better traverse speed
5.3% less dispersion
12.5% more dura
goes down if a crewman dies

BIA:
0.2% better view range (ie, who cares)
2.2% better accel
2.2% better aim time
2.2% better reload
2.2% better repair/camo
always active

Accel/turning/view is basically a wash, leaving 2% reload, repair, and camo vs. 5% dispersion and 12.5% dura to ammo rack. BIA clearly wins.

0003, on May 16 2012 - 20:35, said:

You forgot it's totally possible for heavy tank to have 3 skill, if you keep moving your crew while your grinding, you will end up with 180-200% crew when you reach tier 10, that mean you can have BIA +Repair + planning for another skill.

Gunner, snapshot only work if you don't move your tank, that's totally different with vert stab. BIA also add 2% to max accuracy.
Loader, safe stowage only important on specific tank (T110), while faster reload always useful.

BIA also add to repair, camo, fire fighting skill effectiveness.

Garbad, on May 16 2012 - 19:16, said:

I'll have to try 6th sense.

But I go BIA as first skill. Honestly, I use gold to retrain it as my first skill, but I still go with it for first skill and would even more so use it as first skill if not using gold.

The reason being is that it's a perk and doesn't kick in until 100%. But the skills themselves of course are constantly building.

So while I temporarly lose my repair(or would not have it), it's so much faster to train up that BIA that I think it's worth it.   Because getting to 25-50% on the 2nd skill on your repair is really easy.   And when you're up in the higher numbers, where it slows down, you are still getting 80-90%+ repair benefit.    Where as you would be getting no benefit from BIA that entire time, and longer.

Am I missing something?

Where does it say that Snap Shot doesn't work if the tank is moving?  Did I miss that?

DarkElf, on May 16 2012 - 20:54, said:

No, snap shot works when you move your turret, regardless of whether tank is moving or not. The whole point of vstab and snapshot+smooth ride isn't to fire on the move imo, but to fire after moving. That means while you're moving the reticule disperses less, so when you stop moving it will be smaller to start with (like vstab).

On a heavy tank, camo and firefighting (I wonder what fire extinguishers are for?) are useless skills. 2% to repair isn't something noticeable since 100% repair means a track only takes a few seconds to repair, so 2% gives you a couple tenths of a second (being generous).

KilljoyCutter, on May 16 2012 - 21:00, said:

That is the drivers "smooth ride", not snap shot.  

I was looking at this earlier.   Does this mean smooth ride decreases aim time like a GLD, rather than reducing circle size like a vert?

Guess the question should be, what does a 2.2% increase actually matters?

In theory the tank would be 2.2% better in some aspects, but would it make a noticeable increase in perfomance during battle? Will it make you win more than another set of skills?

and for a Heavy what would you drop of the Rammer, Gun Laying Drive and Vert Stabilizer for Vents? and why?

Rammer -10% Loading Time
Gun Laying Drive -10% Aim Time
Vert Stab 20% reduction Aim circle

vs

Vent 2% bonus to everything