103 replies to this topic

[Lert]

Not an 'absolute guide' for beginners, but a guide for 'absolute beginners'.

Just now I had a match on Siegfried Line where our scout, a Pz38Na, let's call him AlexanderTheGreat (Not his actual name) started the game with  "What the hell am I doing here? What can I do here?". So I replied with "Scout." He replied with "You mean, die?". I replied with "No, idiot. I mean SCOUT." His reply "No matter where I go, I run in to their biggest tank and I die!" And lo and behold, 48 seconds into the match, he runs into the enemy's biggest tank and is murdered. (slightly dramatised for effect)

So after the match I check his profile and, yes, our dear friend AlexanderTheGreat (Not his actual name) has a wholly impressive 43% win ratio over 1200+ matches.

So, here a few simple, easy-to-learn tips to help tier 4 scouts survive longer in tier 9 games, and to actually accomplish something.

Tip the first: Running out at the start of the match and getting killed is not scouting. That's just dying a sad and lonely noob's death. There is nothing wrong with sitting in base for 2 minutes until the battle is fully underway. Oh people might complain at you, but just ignore them.

Tip the second: Ok, so the battle is underway, now what? Look at your minimap. See where  the battle is taking place? See where all the enemy's big tanks are congregated, exchanging fire with your team's big tanks? Yeah. That is a bad place. Don't go there.

Tip the third: Your main weapon is not your gun. In fact, don't bother using it at all. All you'll do is draw someone's attention. Someone who's paint you can barely scratch, but who will instantly vaporise you with a single shot. Don't do this. Don't draw his attention. Your main weapons are your small size and your speed. Yes, shells are faster than you are, but because you are fast and tiny, you spend less time being visible and even less time in their line-of-fire.

Tip the fourth: Know what scouting actually is and when to scout. Scouting is finding out information about the enemy team's deployment. Running out at the start of the match is not scouting. We already know where the enemy is at the start of the match. We need to know where they are 5 minutes into the match.

Tip the fifth: Know what to do when you've found the enemy. The simple tip here is: survive. But how to best survive? Well, if you've found a heavy or a big fat medium, you survive by turning tail and running away. There is nothing wrong with this. When you're on a scout run and you find the enemy, retreat. Let them try and chase you. Don't just push on into their envelope of fire.

Tip the sixth: Situational awareness. This is actually the most advanced thing you can learn. It involves keeping track of your own team's movements, the enemy team's movements, who's alive and who's dead, the minimap, and knowing the map. The reward for a scout that understands situational awareness is the opportunity to recognise a weak flank, exploit it and push into the enemy base to kill arty or to cap the base.

"But, almighty Lert, how will I get XP and credits if I just light up targets and don't get sixteen million kills?" When a teammate damages a target you are lighting up, both you and the teammate get 50% of the XP and credits of the damage done. So just lighting up tanks for your teammates to kill will get you rolling in clover in no time, if you do enough of it.

"But what about my camo rating? Won't I become easier to see while moving?" No. Light tanks maintain their full camo rating while moving. This means that sitting still or moving makes no difference to how easy you are to spot. The only exceptions being having a camo net equipped, which will only be active if you've sat still for a few seconds, or if you're using map-provided camo, like bushes or after 8.2, fallen trees.

All these tips will help you not be AlexanderTheGreat (Not his actual name) . They'll help you be an effective scout. You might think you're worthless in a tier 4 scout tank in a tier 9 battle, but remember these pithy sayings:

- What matters is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

- Just because you can't kill the enemy team's top tank doesn't mean you can't be the reason it dies.

- Given two teams of equal tanks and skill, the team with the best scout wins 100% of the time.

Final thoughts: Yeah, I know you want to murder tanks. That's what you signed up for. Knowing how to be a better scout will get you there faster. It will give you better stats. It will earn you more XP and credits. It will teach you better understanding of the game's flow, which will be instrumental in being an effective high-tier tanker. It will earn you the gratitude of your team. It will earn you victories. With good skill and good knowledge of game flow comes respect. With good skill come clan invites.

Here is a video I found that shows what a good active scout can do and how he does it:



Likewise, from the same guy, a video about good passive scouting:

[Comrade_Zhukov]

This is also an introduction on how not to be a fail chaffee driver...


How do you get through the M5 and not know how to scout a flank?

Edited by Comrade_Zhukov, May 10 2012 - 15:10.

[Tazilon]

It all boils down to one thing:  Situational Awareness (SA)

Develop your SA skills - they are what keeps you alive and they are what you use to benefit your team.  Everything you do for your team starts with good SA skills.

[Krewed]

+1 Unfortunately the people who need to read this, don't or won't visit the forums

Edited by Krewed, May 10 2012 - 15:13.

[apollokenney]

Comrade_Zhukov, on May 10 2012 - 15:10, said:

This is also an introduction on how not to be a fail chaffee driver...


How do you get through the M5 and not know how to scout a flank?

free XP

[UNLIMIT3D]

I just hate their messages every vas in that situation once...why would they be special,there's way to skip em get much gold xD or play with tier 2 till you get enough free xp,but whining doesn't help.

[Lyra_Heartstring]

i learned this the hard way 600 fights in a leo 54% win rate so i guess i did my job??

[tanno]

As a scout at the start of that match, I like to sit back and wait for the enemy scouts, (they are a target you can Pen) and as a scout you have the speed and turning ablity to chase and my fav ram. At high speeds ramming will track them. A scout that can't move is a dead scout.

[Lert]

Mind if I put that in my guide, Tanno?

[psmurf46]

In addition to all the great advice Lert posted, my advice is for to newer players to pair up with someone who does know how to scout and shadow them around for a while.  That way they can learn what scouting strategies work best for the various maps.

Last night in my T-50-2 on on Campinovka for example, I started on the East spawn, first thing I did was let the team know I was going to do a quick field sweep to light up their base so they would be ready for some free shots.  BTW this is really the only map I will do a semi suicide run on, but I usually survive it. I then quickly ran to the bushes near the mid field and passivly scouted half thier heavies rolling up to the church for the next 5 minutes of the game. I will note during this time some of my team members were complaining I wasn't shooting, to which my platoon mate informed them what passive scouting is about.  Finally when we had whittled down about 1/3 of the team, I ran for their 2 arty, which died rather quickly and in a glorious fashion.  The rest of the match I just buzzed around the remaing heavies and meds as a distraction so the rest of the team could collapse in on the base.

The point of my diatribe is that having a good scout on your team will tip the balance in your favor every time. But becoming a good scout means you really have to work on your SA, so you know when to sit and when to move.

Edited by psmurf46, May 10 2012 - 16:07.

[Ryffel]

Good thoughts Lert.  I am also slogging through a PzNa and wind up in Tier IX matches all the time.  My win rate is over 60% in it.  Funny thing is, I also drive a T50, and seem to do better in the PzNa.  The tank forces me to slow down and think a bit about what I'm doing.  The other day I was in a battle that was virtually all Tier VIII & IX.  I did exactly what you said, some passive scouting at first, then snuck around the open flank on the other side of the map and solo capped the base.  Win!  Now if I would just follow my own advice (and yours!) on the T50, I would be a wiser and more winning man.

[pcope]

Let me address these one by one if I may Lert. I agree with you, and I think I can expand on some of these.

1.) One of the best ways to know just when to start scouting? Ask your Arty. Yes, you're scouting for the whole team to reveal the enemy's flank and push. But let's face it. The Scout is there to scout mostly for your artillery pieces.

2.) Like Lert says, don't go with the main push. Watch on your minimap where they're going, then scout along the opposing flank or run circles around to keep that eye on your team's blank spot. Be that random rear guard lookout at base that warns of an impending push so your tanks defending base can react quickly.

3.) I'll actually slightly disagree with you here Lert. While I agree your main weapons are small size and speed, your gun isn't useless. It's for pounding Arty. If you scout successfully and find their artillery by lighting them up? Your own arty can take them out. Help them. Circle around and attack them. I guarantee you that the artillery piece you start shooting in the backside WILL take damage, and that will shock the artillery player into moving. They've been spotted and lit up. They need to run FAST if they're going to survive, and Arty pieces never go anywhere fast. The best you can do is keep them moving in a small circle. Keep behind them and use the lock on function to keep firing at them. The only way a spotted arty with a scout on them is going to be safe is to kill the scout and relocate before the enemy artillery or the scout can kill them. Note: This should be the only time you're actually shooting at anything. (Minor Edit to Add: If you come across an enemy scout? Feel free to blow them to kingdom come. This is also an acceptable use of your gun.)

4.) Yup. And scouting is also the use of terrain. See that hill? That building? That alley where you think the enemy team is? Zip across from cover to cover. You'll light them up. Don't worry about that. But stay in cover and peek out now and again. Don't peek out from the same spot all the time or you'll get flanked and murdered. Remember your main weapon is your size and speed. Use cover to your advantage. That Maus is slow moving and bulky. And it's gun depression isn't something to write home about. Neither is its turret rotation. So run around going "AAAAAAAAA!" And using cover. Do it cleverly and that Maus won't be able to land a shell anywhere NEAR you.

5.) Yup. And don't just run away while their barrels are pointing at your backside. Zig zag. Use cover. Run around going "AAAAAAAAA!" Heck, type it if you want while you're driving. Distract them. Because when that Maus and his Tier 10 and Tier 9 buddies are concentrating on trying to shoot the Scout? They're NOT looking at their mini map. They're NOT seeing your teammates line up along their flank with their IS-4's with HEAT shells that have 400 pen. The rule here is to be distracting and to be unpredictable. Don't run in a straight line. It's easy to lead a tank.

6.) There's nothing I have to add here. Lert covered it pretty well.

Edited by pcope, May 10 2012 - 15:51.

[Daiichidoku]

situ awareness is THE most important aspect of scouting




tip 1 despite what others may say, there ARE times when suiscouting from start of match IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO

many think that a scout alive all match is a good thing...its not bad, but at times it is FAR more critical to ensure enemy arty is eliminated at match start, this allows friendly arty to concentrate on enemy tanks without the bother of staying counter-arty safe

sometimes, if a scout waits for a few minutes for "arty to get setup", he loses the element of surprise...he loses a tight dispersal of tanks in the cap/spawn (and resultant chaos that ensues), and this allows those tanks to gain secure forward positions that will only make the scouts job of penetrating defenses that much more difficult



tip 2  sometimes, you WANT to plunge headlong into the huge mass of tanks; they are in various states of reload, and are often fixated on your engaging friendlies, this allows a scout with a deft driving touch to actually take a SAFER route to spot behind enemy lines, than say a lone path with one or two defenders with nothing else to do but cncentrate on your poor scout

the other bonus of this, when sucessful, is that often in reaction, the enemy tanks in the mass will turn to shoot you as you are rapidly heading to thier arty etc., alolwing yoru friendly units to take advatage of enemies lack of focus at that moment



tip 3  assuming you are not top dog in your match, this is sage advice, concentrate on your driving, always look for the "out", and object/terrain elevation etc to help keep your tank erratic and hard to hit, or completely hard covered by an interceding object such as a large rock or high berm

i ofen hold right mouse to keep my turret locked forward, this way i always know where my gun is when i need it, and if i go to sniper mode i wont be facing backwards to my driving direction



tip 4  this come under situational awareness, and judgement call based on experience; again, sometimes suiscout at  atart is the BEST option, NEVER let ANYONE tell you that suiscouting is bad, or never works, they are ignorant and narrow minded if so



tip 5  yet another situ awareness issue: often best to abort when you get that heavytank lit up...you stay reletively safe, and can return to re-light for arty if tgt still alive..sometimes you will acutally draw the unit out to get you, into more or better fire lanes for your teamamtes to killim

other times, it is best to CHARGE AT THE ENEMY, then blow past his stunned ass after u deke him in the last moment and begin a arty scout run/chaos instigation run

remember, keep lateral movement relative to your tgt minimal, ideally you will be in an erratic course away or towards tgt; going away gives headaches to hit you for range factors, moving towards gives headaches as there is less reaction time for corrections for enemy to shoot you



tip 6 situational awareness: as i have stated beforehand, this is actually not a tip, but the way of life for a scout, situ awareness is what you use to help guide you to finiding the best option for you and your team at that moment, its the "big picture" that all the tips listed are affected by




survival (as a stat) is meaning less to a real scout (dunno how many games i could have EASILY survived, but didnt, cuz i preferred the fun of circle straffing that last E 100 or IS7 on map before my teamamtes arrive for the rape, and get killed)...if the job is done right, sometimes the best scout wont last beyond the first minute of play

btw, T9-10 fights are the BEST for scouting: you will get more exp, as tanks are generally bigger, slower, easier to light and for arty to kill..this also means a scout has a BETTER chance of survival, as in high tier you will face relatively slow firing guns on tanks with slower traverses,et al., while lower tiers are chock full of much faster firing guns etc

Edited by Daiichidoku, May 10 2012 - 16:18.

[Whee]

Well said Lert.

I simply love to scout in my T-50-2. As an active scout, my main objective is to spot and not engage.

Now some people may say, "whats so good about scouting if I just spot them?"

I will tell you my glee and satisfaction from scouting. Its true that you don't have the guns BUT you have the ENTIRE team at your disposal.

Every match I play in my T-50-2, i go ahead of the flank and spot enemies. Using my agility and speed and under the adrenaline, I dodge the shells and what nots they throw against me. Poor suckers, if they cannot kill me, they will have to suffer from my teammates.

I have the entire team at my disposal. My entire team does my biddings. All I just need to do is run away, spot and not get hit. I don't even new to concentrate on shooting. My entire team does that.

Now your saying "Hey Whee, you don't know what your saying. A tier 4 scout (A-20 and pzn 38na) that does not have the speed or agility like t-50-2 so how can I scout?"

Theres a such thing called "passive scouting" meaning you hide in bushes and provide sight to your blind teammates. This is even better. I will tell you why.

If you spot a enemy while hiding in a bush, the enemy almost will unlikely know where you are. The enemy will be so disillusioned and troubled because there's a scout hiding somewhere. The best part is brig accused of "hacks". "stupid game mechanics, I already get if shot from across the map. That scout is hacking"

Shh... Don't reveal your location. Sit back and enjoy the show.

Best thing is, you don't need to do any shooting. Just sit back, turn on the TV and let your team do the rest. PLUS you get 50% of your team damage intake as credits and exp. wow... Look at that. Park somewhere in a bush and just sit back with your legs atop the table. "do my bidding my team. I going to sit back and enjoy the smoking barbecue wrecks"

I hope you will enjoy being a scout as much I like playing one.

Also remember. It's not the guns that determine the battle. Its the sight and information that determines the battle. You dot rush into the battle if you don't know what is going on.

Thats why a weak scout can be a very powerful asset to the team.

[Lert]

Daiichidoku, on May 10 2012 - 16:16, said:

*stuff*

All good points. However, your points assume a certain game knowledge and skill, including a good grasp of situational awareness. My tips are for absolute beginners. Guys like AlexanderTheGreat (not his actual name) who has a 30% win rate on his 38Na.

[Daiichidoku]

tanno, on May 10 2012 - 15:34, said:

As a scout at the start of that match, I like to sit back and wait for the enemy scouts, (they are a target you can Pen) and as a scout you have the speed and turning ablity to chase and my fav ram. At high speeds ramming will track them. A scout that can't move is a dead scout.

other scouts should always be avoided if possible, actually

when you are only one on that flank, etc then u have no choice (example: spawning in the bowl on siegfried line..often no one covers 0 line, or it takes them way too much time to get to the top of bowl to cover it..the scout should take a passive spot to cover that 0 line flank to screen for suiscouts at least until such time as another unit can be "on station")

leave the scout killing to others, your job#1 is scouting, job#2 is arty defense...

unless you really have no other option, AVOID RAMMING SCOUTS AT ALL COSTS. although we've all seen massive failteams..the WHOLE team fail to stop a single puny scout from getting to very back of map, this is in the minority.  most times your teamamtes can and will stp the scouts..no need to damage urself, and track urself so enemy arty can kill your ass

[MacLeod_]

Just a question, to get the 50% spotting XP bonus do you have to physically press t and stop them or simply sit back and have them pop into view range?

[Lert]

You can just sit back and light them up. There's no button to press.

[Ekorus]

I agree with most of the stated. I am a scout (my main tank is tier III Luchs) and I find it a very fun role to play, plus I get a pretty good win ratio too. However, there is a reason why I keep being a tier III after 800+ battles, accumulating money and experience pointlessly without advancing. And it's precisely that the d*mn Leopard gets thrown against tier 9s. So I think about the fun factor for all the possible battles the MM puts me in:

Luchs (III):
- Battle against tiers II and III: *evil laugh*, time to slaughter!
- Battle against tier IIIs and IVs: let's do some scouting, flank them and pulverize arty and TDs. May get good shots on the rear and sides of IVs too.
- Battle against tier Vs and IVs: scout at safe distance while lighting them up, keep an eye for arty, land some good opportunity shots on the back of unaware IVs and Vs.

Leopard (IV):
- Battle against tier IX: We just dinged 'em!
- Battle against tier VIII: We just dinged 'em!
- Battle against tier VII: We just dinged 'em!
- Battle against tier VI: We just dinged 'em!

Really, when your shots ricochet even on arty, you should set your tank on fire yourself, don't make the enemy waste one shell (wasting a whooole shell for such overkill, no way). Thanks god I recently bought a medium tank - if I get instakilled, let it be at least in balanced matches.

I believe players who don't know how to scout are not the problem here, but the MM. I am no incompetent scout - I have read all sorts of guides, learned all battle mechanics from the wiki, have 55%wr, ace tanker, 1554 efficiency rating (according to this), and got many top guns in tier V matches with a small tier III scout. But I simply refuse to play scout against an enemy team wholly composed of tanks that could kill 5 scouts with a single shell if they were lined.

[Slick_Rick]

Daiichidoku, on May 10 2012 - 16:16, said:

Remember, keep lateral movement relative to your tgt minimal, ideally you will be in an erratic course away or towards tgt; going away gives headaches to hit you for range factors, moving towards gives headaches as there is less reaction time for corrections for enemy to shoot you

Speaking not as a scout, but as a TD driver that tries to hit that scout with a fat bullet ...I often wait until the scout is headed either directly towards or directly away from me to fire, as that is when I am least likely to miss.  The key here is ERRATIC course -- if you head straight towards me? straight away from me?  That's *much* easier to hit than if you're driving in a straight line laterally.  Of course if you're driving in a straight line *anywhere*, you're doing it wrong.  Just be careful that you don't get popped in the butt as you face directly away from that enemy because your speed was bleeding off and now he doesn't have to lead you.  I've killed a fair number of scouts, using the much poo-poo'd autoaim feature simply by choosing the right moment to fire.  Not recommending you autoaim, but recommending that you avoid getting in the situation where even an autoaim can kill you .

-Slick