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T14 and the secret to it's success!


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dvang #41 Posted Jul 20 2012 - 23:42

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View Postmasterzjg, on Jun 19 2012 - 08:32, said:

That's like calling the kv5 the worst tier 8 tank. It is, however, neither were designed to be on the same level, or even be able to fight on even terms with their own tiers. You buy it because of the extremely favorable MM, and the fact that both tanks are very great at bullying lower tiered tanks.

Oh, I agree to an extent. Premiums are, generally, not intended to be "Awesome" and perform better than their non-premium counterparts. I am not saying otherwise.

However, the KV-5 is much better compared to other tier 8 heavies, than the T14 is compared to other tier 5 heavies.

Let's do a quick look at numbers...
---------------------------------------
KV-5 Pen 167
h/t: 180/150/140

IS-3
h: 110/90/60
t: 150/90/80

KV-4
h: 180/150/90
t: 180/130/110

T-32
h: 127/76/51
t: 114/76.2/76.2

Lowe
h: 120/80/80
t: 120/80/80

Tiger 2
h: 150/80/80
t: 100/80/80

----------------------------
T14 Pen 92
h: 50/50/50
t: 101/101/101

T1HT
h: 83/44/41
t: 102/83/83

KV-1
h: 75/75/70
t: 95/75/75

Churchill
h: 176/76/50
t: 88/88/76

-----------------------
Notice how the KV-5 gun's penetration is significantly better than most armor on most of the other tier 8s. (we do need keep in mind that the armor numbers do not factor in slope or distance, of course).
You've got 167 Pen vs ~80 armor on many side armors, and 167 pen vs ~120 average on the front (assuming targeting a weaker spot).

Compare that the the T14's pen of 92 vs the front of the other tier5 heavy tanks of 75-95, and the sides only slightly better at 92 vs ~75.

Rough approximations, and it can be difficult since it depends on angles and slopes and distance. But, it is fairly easy to see that the relative difference in Pen vs armor against their comparable tanks is significant. You are looking at a 40-80 pen 'overage' for the KV-5, and only a 15-ish pen 'overage' for the T14.

The KV-5's gun is better compared to same-tier tank armors, than the T14's gun is compared to its same tier opponents. The 92 pen of the T14 gun has a tough time penetrating the (deceptive) 50 value of another T14's hull, even at close range and shooting weak spots. Now consider trying to penetrate the 75 on a KV-1 or 88 on a Churchill, etc.

That's all I'm saying. The T14 is a decent tank, except that the penetration of the gun is too weak to effectively deal with other tier 5 heavies. The T14 really should *not* attempt to go 1 on 1 with another tier 5 heavy, unless they plan on merely being a speed bump to slow the enemy down. The T14 needs to target lights and mediums to effectively kill things (by himself).

I'll repeat, I have seen several matches of T14s fighting 1 on 1, each obviously aiming at hull weak spots, and each tank ending up still alive after each had fired 20-30 shots. The 92 pen isn't good enough to reliably pen the 50 hull of another T14, let alone the beefier heavies like the Churchill and KV-1.

Sonos #42 Posted Jul 21 2012 - 16:11

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With a rammer the T14 shoots about as fast as the Church.  I fear no tier 5 heavy in a T14 due to its speed, slope and ability to pump out shells.  Its the best rushing heavy tier 5 imo.  Rush, ram and instill fear into the enemy for pubstomping fun.  The tank is a great leader that is how I play it.

punkndisorderly #43 Posted Jul 21 2012 - 16:26

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I've been oticing way more games with tier VI's the last month or so. Lots of KV-2 and KV1-S. I ' d put it somewhere around 1/3 of games.

I can hold my own or beat anything in or below my tier. Against VI's, it's gun gets to be worthless and armor too thin. Can still be effective, but any mistake is likely to be fatal.

GrandMasterRaziel #44 Posted Jul 21 2012 - 16:29

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I don't mind the T14, but the only thing it has going for it is favorable matchmaking, and that doesn't seem as good as it used to be.  When I first got it, I got nothing but Tier 5 matches.  Now, I seem to get nothing but Tier 6 matches.  In any other tier 5 heavy, I wouldn't mind so much, but the T14 is hopeless in a tier 6 match.  It's slow, despite appearances its armor is a joke, and its gun sucks.  The Ram-II is a much better tank.  I'll gamely take a Ram-II into matches up to tier 7 with some confidence in being able to be relevant.

So, the T14 needs some kind of buff, to bring it up to Churchill effectiveness at the very least.  Make it a little more bouncy, so it at least resembles the tank you think you're getting when you look at it.

Sonos #45 Posted Jul 21 2012 - 16:51

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View Postpunkndisorderly, on Jul 21 2012 - 16:26, said:

I've been oticing way more games with tier VI's the last month or so. Lots of KV-2 and KV1-S. I ' d put it somewhere around 1/3 of games.

I can hold my own or beat anything in or below my tier. Against VI's, it's gun gets to be worthless and armor too thin. Can still be effective, but any mistake is likely to be fatal.

It gets a lot more 6 matches.  1/3 sounds about right.  In that case I team up with a tier 6 and go into more of a support role.

120mm_he #46 Posted Jul 22 2012 - 00:28

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T14 noobs. :Smile-bajan2:

If you can't kill a tier 6 with the t14 you need to lrn2play.

Sonos #47 Posted Jul 22 2012 - 03:24

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If it let me in tier 7 matches I'd kill those :Smile_glasses:

punkndisorderly #48 Posted Jul 22 2012 - 13:38

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Yes, T-14 CAN kill Tier VI tanks. It's just at a severe disadvantage against them. Your armor is on par or worse than the Mediums at Tier VI and your gun just does't have the pen or damage to cope. Against KV2 and other heavies at Tier VI their armor is pretty much impervious to your gun and your armor is pretty much wothless against theirs.

Was in a battle las night where I got tracked and a VK rushed straivht up to me. I was bouncing half my shots directly off its weak spots.

It can be done, but requires a total shift in strategy. Hull down and support.




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