Garbad's arty poll, with less bias.
Elepole
May 23 2012
Beerstein, on May 23 2012 - 02:28, said:
I liked Garbads poll better.
This is the original garbad poll. Before he changed it by removing the "no change" option (for obvious reason)
Brok2ndArmored
May 23 2012
Arty has its good and bad, I think 3+ arty leads to poorer game play. 0-2 is reasonable. The problem seems to be most pronounced in high tiers, I believe because tanks get (overall) slower and slower (and thus easier for arty to hit as they advance from cover position to cover position). Second, random big hits. The randomness unbalances matches. Big lucky hits early on can sway a match into a big loss, where otherwise it could have been a fairly good fight. I'd like to see less damage and in return up its reliability. So same dps but far less outliers due to luck.
---------------------------------------- anyways
My big problem with arty is how they can be arty or TD on the fly. With camo and crew camo, it is very easy for arty to tag someone at the end of matches (especially on certain maps). I don't think arty should be deciding the end of matches the way they do. So I propose a timered switch between arty mode and TD mode. Like 30 seconds.
And don't talk any RL crap, SPGs are very far from reality in WoT.
---------------------------------------- anyways
My big problem with arty is how they can be arty or TD on the fly. With camo and crew camo, it is very easy for arty to tag someone at the end of matches (especially on certain maps). I don't think arty should be deciding the end of matches the way they do. So I propose a timered switch between arty mode and TD mode. Like 30 seconds.
And don't talk any RL crap, SPGs are very far from reality in WoT.
ArmoredCorps
May 23 2012
Well Garbad's thread is locked, so I'm stuck with this one.
In pubs, high arty-count games turn retarded. You can literally die for nothing just cause you brought a Maus but the enemy team had tons of lights. Spotted, nuked out, with absolutely no recourse of changing this outcome. RNG luck doesn't hold a candle to this kind of bad luck -- really detracts from the notion the game is skill based.
I voted for the higher RoF, AoE type. The thing is, as is, arty is a pure damage output class where player input makes a large difference, but there are huge RNG influences which detract from the same. This is the scizophrenic result of the devs original intent being modified by a ton of generalized arty nerfs over tons of patches.
Changing it blandly to low alpha, area of effect should seem to further dilute player skill and make the RNG even stronger. I think a few ideas could flesh out arty in a new roll.
1) different firing modes. The crazy alpha, pinpoint strike at the moment turns CW, companies and pubs into contests or terrain leverage and superior spotting, probing and countering the same.
A) new pin point strike, 3-shot salvo. Aim time and rof are increased. One shot (user choosable) fires near or far, the next brakcets the opposite direction, and the final one is precise, moreso than currently. This is a bit more realistic but gives you an indication you're targeted.
B) fire for effect: you pick an area, lock the treads and a salvo of rounds hits within a certain area bounded by the arc of the gun. The salvo length and rate of fire can be commensurate with the caliber of the gun. So the small stuff peppers out a veritable storm of shells quickly. A T92 for example might chuck out 2-3 rounds over 15 seconds over a very wide area, then load for a long time.
2) Now, pinpoint shootings a thing of the past, right? And stuff hits all over the place, its all RNG. Seems like a too-heavy randomizing element fundamentally leveling off all artillery skill so everyone does the same. So we add some buff and quirks to area bombardment / pinpoint strikes.
A) tanks in the vicinity of area bombardment lose the tank comander benefit of 5% skill, and get spotting range reductions of 15-75 meters. The precise numbers could vary but it reduces combat effectiveness in addition to damage inflicted through splash and hit. Rationale: the tank is buttoned up, in addition to the chaos of / fog of war.
This would allow you to cover an advance and encourage campers to adopt more fluid defensive postures. Basically, hard campers got the river covered pat in El Hallouf, right? Wrong -- their spotting gets tanked, they take damage and can't shoot or move quite as well. Multiple arty bombarding the same area can obviously keep an area perpetually supressed by covering each others reload, OR they can saturate an area with shells by firing at the same time.
2) CB: so arty bombardments turn into a way to reduce combat effectiveness of typical camp spots (pockets of resistance) and as legitimate area denial when massed on one area. "T'ing" off a needs to have terrain added.
The bracket method exists primarily to cb, through a simple dynamic. Arty salvos last longer than precision aiming. I could pull numbers out of my ass, but they'd be balanced more precisely. Say its calculated so that if an arty is already looking at a precise spot, that it has a 5 second buffer where it will successfully land a precise shot against the same type of arty. (or this could be a percentage) So, while you're crapping out 5 155mm hummel rounds, an enemy hummel is shooting 3 out and the 3rd will be on your head before your gun goes cold and you can move again.
________
Quirks: say it takes the same amount of time to load as currently, but obviously within an arty bombardment, RoF is a round every 3-8 seconds or so. But you aren't trapped into your bombardment solution: you can cut it out sooner but at the expense of fewer rounds out and the same full reload. You can play safer (harder to cb) but deal out area suppression less effectively.
Ammo counts have to go up, however unrealistic. Or they stay the same, but so do exact damage and splash characteristics, balanced against the fact its far less consistently precise. (it takes 3 rounds for any "precision strike;" this means low ammo count spg's specialize on cb or area suppression at key times and locations)
Angles need to increase, or else arty just runs out of rounds smashing hard cover. This is balanced against the fact precision aiming is more time and ammo intensive and that area suppresion can be driven out of. You can hard camp but the moment the first of say 4 203mms land in your vicinity, you get out of the area of impact.
To go along with the above, during a bombardment firing sequence, you can't shift aim point. It's a general area, and you fire all rounds in a rough box or linear ellipse if its to be more accurate.
=======
Typed on phone AFK / AFT. I'm up anyway, hence the detail.
Ps -- the neatest aspect of this to me is that it means lower tier arty become high tier arty kryptonite, since their lower calibers shoot faster in precision aim than will large calibers bombarded an area. This can balance arty heavy games.
Additional map UI elements to ease CB I would consider, too. Say whenever enemy rounds hit, they let you know the caliber -- that tells you "this player is in a bombardment, so I can pan and scan while he's stuck in place firing." Alternately, you could CB with the bombardment technique but this is obviously ammo intensive if you don't even get the kill.
In pubs, high arty-count games turn retarded. You can literally die for nothing just cause you brought a Maus but the enemy team had tons of lights. Spotted, nuked out, with absolutely no recourse of changing this outcome. RNG luck doesn't hold a candle to this kind of bad luck -- really detracts from the notion the game is skill based.
I voted for the higher RoF, AoE type. The thing is, as is, arty is a pure damage output class where player input makes a large difference, but there are huge RNG influences which detract from the same. This is the scizophrenic result of the devs original intent being modified by a ton of generalized arty nerfs over tons of patches.
Changing it blandly to low alpha, area of effect should seem to further dilute player skill and make the RNG even stronger. I think a few ideas could flesh out arty in a new roll.
1) different firing modes. The crazy alpha, pinpoint strike at the moment turns CW, companies and pubs into contests or terrain leverage and superior spotting, probing and countering the same.
A) new pin point strike, 3-shot salvo. Aim time and rof are increased. One shot (user choosable) fires near or far, the next brakcets the opposite direction, and the final one is precise, moreso than currently. This is a bit more realistic but gives you an indication you're targeted.
B) fire for effect: you pick an area, lock the treads and a salvo of rounds hits within a certain area bounded by the arc of the gun. The salvo length and rate of fire can be commensurate with the caliber of the gun. So the small stuff peppers out a veritable storm of shells quickly. A T92 for example might chuck out 2-3 rounds over 15 seconds over a very wide area, then load for a long time.
2) Now, pinpoint shootings a thing of the past, right? And stuff hits all over the place, its all RNG. Seems like a too-heavy randomizing element fundamentally leveling off all artillery skill so everyone does the same. So we add some buff and quirks to area bombardment / pinpoint strikes.
A) tanks in the vicinity of area bombardment lose the tank comander benefit of 5% skill, and get spotting range reductions of 15-75 meters. The precise numbers could vary but it reduces combat effectiveness in addition to damage inflicted through splash and hit. Rationale: the tank is buttoned up, in addition to the chaos of / fog of war.
This would allow you to cover an advance and encourage campers to adopt more fluid defensive postures. Basically, hard campers got the river covered pat in El Hallouf, right? Wrong -- their spotting gets tanked, they take damage and can't shoot or move quite as well. Multiple arty bombarding the same area can obviously keep an area perpetually supressed by covering each others reload, OR they can saturate an area with shells by firing at the same time.
2) CB: so arty bombardments turn into a way to reduce combat effectiveness of typical camp spots (pockets of resistance) and as legitimate area denial when massed on one area. "T'ing" off a needs to have terrain added.
The bracket method exists primarily to cb, through a simple dynamic. Arty salvos last longer than precision aiming. I could pull numbers out of my ass, but they'd be balanced more precisely. Say its calculated so that if an arty is already looking at a precise spot, that it has a 5 second buffer where it will successfully land a precise shot against the same type of arty. (or this could be a percentage) So, while you're crapping out 5 155mm hummel rounds, an enemy hummel is shooting 3 out and the 3rd will be on your head before your gun goes cold and you can move again.
________
Quirks: say it takes the same amount of time to load as currently, but obviously within an arty bombardment, RoF is a round every 3-8 seconds or so. But you aren't trapped into your bombardment solution: you can cut it out sooner but at the expense of fewer rounds out and the same full reload. You can play safer (harder to cb) but deal out area suppression less effectively.
Ammo counts have to go up, however unrealistic. Or they stay the same, but so do exact damage and splash characteristics, balanced against the fact its far less consistently precise. (it takes 3 rounds for any "precision strike;" this means low ammo count spg's specialize on cb or area suppression at key times and locations)
Angles need to increase, or else arty just runs out of rounds smashing hard cover. This is balanced against the fact precision aiming is more time and ammo intensive and that area suppresion can be driven out of. You can hard camp but the moment the first of say 4 203mms land in your vicinity, you get out of the area of impact.
To go along with the above, during a bombardment firing sequence, you can't shift aim point. It's a general area, and you fire all rounds in a rough box or linear ellipse if its to be more accurate.
=======
Typed on phone AFK / AFT. I'm up anyway, hence the detail.
Ps -- the neatest aspect of this to me is that it means lower tier arty become high tier arty kryptonite, since their lower calibers shoot faster in precision aim than will large calibers bombarded an area. This can balance arty heavy games.
Additional map UI elements to ease CB I would consider, too. Say whenever enemy rounds hit, they let you know the caliber -- that tells you "this player is in a bombardment, so I can pan and scan while he's stuck in place firing." Alternately, you could CB with the bombardment technique but this is obviously ammo intensive if you don't even get the kill.
