29 replies to this topic

[WreckinBall]

OK i dont know if anyone else is having problems with the m58 but iv never had this many bouncing issues with a gun before.  I just finished a match and was side huging a t95 and bounced 3 times ina row off a t95s side, then right after i finaly killed the t95 after a bunch of bounces i shot an american t20 in the front and it bounced off of him.  Then a couple of rounds earlier i was firing at the lower plate of a e75 and had several bounces off the lower plate, had no problems before with the t122 penning an e75 front lower plate.  Iv never had a problem with lower tier tanks pening a t95s side and why the hell does it bounce off of a t20!!!!  There are several other ocasions i have had numerous bounces off of targets that should not be able to bounce a shell with the penatration values of the m58 yet it does.  Anyone know why this gun is so bouncy?

[gman2725]

If you think that's bad, I've had shells bounce off of a t49 tank destroyer with a straight 90 degree shot using a gun whose minimum penetration is double the t49s armor thickness lol Wasn't happening to me before the patch.

[vit12345]

RNG and luck.

[guywitn0life]

Gun doesn't seem to normalize quite right.

I've bounced 3 rounds in a row off the back of a Maus turret that was only a few degrees off vertical to me.

I've bounced multiple times on T-54 glacis from under 100 yards.

The M58 doesn't deal with slopes very well. It never has.

[VirgilHilts]

The M58 seems to be problematic for a lot of people in several areas. Wierd failures to penetrate, random wild flier shots, and strings of really low damage. I've wanted to like the M58, but feel they screwed it up when they "adjusted it" to match the French 120MM. Which should never have been done.

[rotorian]

VirgilHilts, on May 23 2012 - 16:06, said:

The M58 seems to be problematic for a lot of people in several areas. Wierd failures to penetrate, random wild flier shots, and strings of really low damage. I've wanted to like the M58, but feel they screwed it up when they "adjusted it" to match the French 120MM. Which should never have been done.

It gots reamdomized.  IMO.  It may not be the truth, but perception is reality and the damn thing on a M103, specifically, sucks.

Edited by rotorian, May 23 2012 - 17:20.

[areuworkhere]

<p>I also feels like the gun is unreliable. With that much I pen I shouldn't get the bounces I do. And the accuracy that's what bugs me the most. I shot at the front of a t34 at about 250m he completely filled the reticle. First shot went to his track. The next shot hit his turret. And the last shot? I have no clue. And o was centered on his hull WTf I can snipe better with the pattons gun.

[NoMoreChillies]

ive had m58 bounce off rear of hummel WTF?

also get alot of 0dmg penetrations that irritate me to no end.

[vit12345]

0 dmg crit penetrations? Weird bounces? Or even vanishing shells? Ask the SA 46 on the AMX 50 120. M58 on M103 is still much more reliable.

[KnightFandragon]

Yeah, its WoT's marvelous Penetration RNG.....FAILING AT LIFE!

[TELEFORCE]

I don't think the M58 is any worse than the other guns as far as accuracy and penetration go.  Last night, I had a 9-kill game with my M103 and I pulled off some pretty tricky shots, blowing off Type 59 turrets at 400 meters while they were hull-down.  I did bounce off a Type 59 turret once, but I expected at least one bounce because of their turret armor.

Like others said, I think you had bad pen RNG luck.  My jagdtiger with the 128/L61 gun bounced off the front hull of a Chaffee once, yet proceeded to cut right through an IS-7.

[the_moidart]

I don't have any problems with the gun, I don't even have the supposed too many low damage rolls bug. Patience, precision, and cover to use while reloading are really all you need.

[MajorOffensive]

The problem isn't the accuracy so much as the hidden dispersion soft stat.  The accuracy only describes the area in which the shell may go (with a few out-of-bounds exceptions).  But the hidden dispersion stat describes the probability of hitting center of the circle, more or less.  For some guns on some tanks, this value is ludicrous.  Mostly on American tanks (and the TDs I've played), the shell is about equally likely to go anywhere in the reticle.  This will make you hit at weird angles, if you hit at all, and result in more often than normal bounces.  Enjoy.

[KnightFandragon]

Lol go play with the T150 and mount the 57mm 413 or w/e....THAT thing has 99% straight down the center dispersion...I played one battle with it and fell in love.  Only its low-ish pen and poor dmg keeps me from reinstalling WoT just to play that tank.....I wish the M58 had half the dispersion of that gun...whcih it should considering what the M58 is...a modern gun that is supposedly very accurate.  It is pretty accurate in game but still not even remotely close to the 413.

[MajorOffensive]

Accuracy and dispersion in this game are for "balance" not realism.  This game has drifted so far toward the arcade side since beta that I don't think it can really be called "historical" anymore.

[WreckinBall]

im glad im not the only one to realize that there is something wrong with the m58, i mean i have the is8 with that new m62 i LOVE that gun!!! and it has 1 point less penatration and i hardly ever bounce with it unless i aim carelessly and hit the mantle of an enemy tank or some other hard spot, but normaly ill pen easily in the same spot the m58 will bounce!!!!  I duno i guess american tanks will always be screwed in the end lol

[Danneskjold184]

*facepalm* I just bounced off of the flat side of a 1375 at about 150 yards after the previous shot sailed out of the circle.  I then proceeded to get a center mass penetration, and have 0 damage done.

Immediately following that, I had 2 shots, neither of which landed in the freaking circle, MUCH LESS NEAR THE GOD DAMN CENTER.  Then I had 2 shots bounce off of a flat shot on a 3601.  One on the front, one on the side.  All in all, it was not a very successful 7 shots.

As a consequence of this god awful gun, 1 of my team's arties died, and one other M103 died.  The other M103 seemed to be having the same reliability issues and couldn't defend himself from a Kv3, the discussed 3601 and the 1375.


It was all I could to not rip my keyboard out and smash it into little bits.  I'm not spending any more money on gold for WOT until this crap is fixed.  And I'm sure as hell not going to buy the T110 which has the same piece of shit gun.

Edited by Danneskjold184, Jun 03 2012 - 15:22.

[VirgilHilts]

The French get more bullshit bounces and no damage criticals than just about any other vehicle. I've come to expect to need 2-3 additional shots to kill anything French. They're as big a joke as the Russian cockroaches.

[KnightFandragon]

WreckinBall, on May 25 2012 - 04:41, said:

im glad im not the only one to realize that there is something wrong with the m58, i mean i have the is8 with that new m62 i LOVE that gun!!! and it has 1 point less penatration and i hardly ever bounce with it unless i aim carelessly and hit the mantle of an enemy tank or some other hard spot, but normaly ill pen easily in the same spot the m58 will bounce!!!!  I duno i guess american tanks will always be screwed in the end lol

Of course you do, its not the on paper stats that make it amazing..its what is under its hood that does that...

If we could see the Roll made to determine each shot for the M58 it would be

200, 200, 198, 187, 257, 234, 200, 198, 178, 267

T62 its

267, 288, 268, 268, 256, 268, 268, 268...yeah, its a far more reliable gun under the hood, all Russian guns are far more reliable in the penetration/dmg dept then any other nation...

M58 is a fickle bitch but for me its been working fairly well....I just hope the 7.4 nerf doesnt see to the end of the M58's accuracy and waht not.....for me it has been doing ok....but ugh..fuuuu..

[Dands]

WreckinBall, on May 23 2012 - 06:51, said:

OK i dont know if anyone else is having problems with the m58 but iv never had this many bouncing issues with a gun before.  I just finished a match and was side huging a t95 and bounced 3 times ina row off a t95s side, then right after i finaly killed the t95 after a bunch of bounces i shot an american t20 in the front and it bounced off of him.  Then a couple of rounds earlier i was firing at the lower plate of a e75 and had several bounces off the lower plate, had no problems before with the t122 penning an e75 front lower plate.  Iv never had a problem with lower tier tanks pening a t95s side and why the hell does it bounce off of a t20!!!!  There are several other ocasions i have had numerous bounces off of targets that should not be able to bounce a shell with the penatration values of the m58 yet it does.  Anyone know why this gun is so bouncy?

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