Jump to content


Excursion of the WoT World: Prokhorovka


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
31 replies to this topic

merig00 #1 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 01:21

    Major

  • Special Beta Testers
  • 413 battles
  • 2,976
  • [TB-H] TB-H
  • Member since:
    06-14-2010
On July 12th, 1943 under the village Prokhorovka took place one of the largest battles with use of armored forces in the human history. Soviet sources indicate that there about 1500 tanks participated in the battle: about 800 units from soviet side and 700 - from german. Other sources give us a little bit smaller number - 1200 vehicles.  It was here where "Hummels", "PZ III", "SUs", and "34" crossed paths in battle...

http://game.worldoft...ka/memorial.jpg

Neither side achieved the the initial goals. However both sides suffered major losses. Sources indicate different number of lost units: from 300 to 700 from each side. "It was hell!" -  recalls Untersturmfiihrer Gurs. "Tankers were jumping from the burning tanks and rolled on the ground, trying to knock down the flames" - remembers parts of the battle the Hero of the Soviet Union Yevgeny Shkurdalov.

http://game.worldoft...a/terrain_1.jpg

High Resolution

Today, in memory of one of the biggest battles of the Great Patriotic War [merig00: that's the name of part of World War II fought by USSR] - Battle of Prokhorovka, a museum-preserve "Prokhorovka's field" was created. And for the 50th anniversary of the Victory the "Victory Monument" was built. It consists of belfry and the Church of Saints Peter and Paul, who are considered symbols of the third battle field in Russia. The museum of the Battle of Prokhorovka history has permanent exhibition on the history of the Battle of Kursk and the battles under Prokhorovka.

http://game.worldoft.../memorial_2.jpg

The fighting of 1943 died down, and on the "third battle field of Russia" peaceful sky reigns again. Developers of the "World of tanks" could not miss the opportunity to let players experience the drama of this great battles of WWII, recreating the theater of fighting on the virtual Prokhorovka field. Players of the World of Tanks now know firsthand about the massive battles of Prokhorovka ...

http://game.worldoft...a/terrain_2.jpg

High Resolution

We asked Natalia Bezrukova, map artist, and Henry Kravtsov, a leading game designer, to tell us about the process of creating "Prokhorovka". And to tell us about the difficulties and nuances that were encountered during the work on the map.

Henry Kravtsov: The battle for Prokhorovka - the legendary battle of the Second World War, so we wanted to make the map as realistic as possible. We had to carefully study the historical facts, repeatedly view various photos of the area. But the major problem, perhaps, was that the real countryside rather stingy for vivid landscapes.

Natalia Bezrukova: Initially our task was to draw a game map using the plan provided by the game designers. It was in essence only a sketch of the necessary objects on the map. Therefore, all local beauty, which players can observe on the "Prokhorovka" - is a work of map artists.

Prokhorovka" is one of the first maps of the World of Tanks, but after a variety of experiments on the "Karelia" artists have had a clear idea of the difficulties they will have to face.

Natalia Bezrukova: During the creation of "Prokhorovka" we had mostly problems of a technical nature. Game map by itself is a grid, divided into squares,  over which, in turn artist "stretches" textures. It was hard to make smooth transitions from one area to another: after all, "Prokhorovka" was the first time we had to do this. Here the lifeless sands are replaced by dense vegetation.

http://game.worldoft...a/terrain_3.jpg

High Resolution

Henry Kravtsov: The railroad, in many ways creates the balance on the map. The railroad is repeatedly mentioned in various sources (there were difficulties with the transporting troops across the railroad). Attacking through the central part of the map is a very risky venture, so players tend to employ flanking attacks.

Natalia Bezrukova: When creating the map, we naturally worked hand in hand with game design. It was necessary to take note of all the comments. So, we had to remove some barriers in the form of stones and destroyable objects. And especially our colleagues from the game design would get "nervous" when they would stumbled upon rocks inside the bushes (smiles).

In general, the location of objects on the "Prokhorovka" were repeatedly changed, some elements were added, just to be removed later.

Natalia Bezrukova: We were constantly rearranging the houses on the map: added new ones, removed others. Added more details: we wanted to create a map that really is very similar to the real-world Prokhorovka.

Henry Kravtsov: "Prokhorovka" is not our first map, so work on it did not dragged on. We managed to create a pretty close to the reality map in a relatively short period of time.

steelers708 #2 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 03:30

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 82
  • Member since:
    07-24-2010

View Postmerig00, on Oct 08 2010 - 01:21, said:

On July 12th, 1943 under the village Prokhorovka took place one of the largest battles with use of armored forces in the human history. Soviet sources indicate that there about 1500 tanks participated in the battle: about 800 units from soviet side and 700 - from german. Other sources give us a little bit smaller number - 1200 vehicles.  It was here where "Hummels", "PZ III", "SUs", and "34" crossed paths in battle...Neither side achieved the the initial goals. However both sides suffered major losses. Sources indicate different number of lost units: from 300 to 700 from each side.

Please stop quoting Soviet propaganda figures about the number of tanks involved at Prokhorovka, especially when talking about losses. There are plenty of modern books by very respectable authors that can give you the exact figures involved for both sides(including losses) on the 12th July, with the figures taken from official records/documents etc, not that crap the old Soviet Union put out.

merig00 #3 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 03:44

    Major

  • Special Beta Testers
  • 413 battles
  • 2,976
  • [TB-H] TB-H
  • Member since:
    06-14-2010

View Poststeelers708, on Oct 08 2010 - 03:30, said:

Please stop quoting Soviet propaganda figures about the number of tanks involved at Prokhorovka, especially when talking about losses. There are plenty of modern books by very respectable authors that can give you the exact figures involved for both sides(including losses) on the 12th July, with the figures taken from official records/documents etc, not that crap the old Soviet Union put out.
You are free to post them here. I don't really care since the post is more about the map and where it came from.

soulspectre #4 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 03:51

    Captain

  • Beta Testers
  • 13445 battles
  • 1,759
  • Member since:
    07-24-2010
A map with even less cover than campwhateveritis. The mods better get the topic delete button warmed up when that map comes out. :Smile-hiding:

merig00 #5 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 03:53

    Major

  • Special Beta Testers
  • 413 battles
  • 2,976
  • [TB-H] TB-H
  • Member since:
    06-14-2010

View Postsoulspectre, on Oct 08 2010 - 03:51, said:

A map with even less cover than campwhateveritis. The mods better get the topic delete button warmed up when that map comes out. :Smile-hiding:
Uhm it's been in game even before the beginning of the EU Closed Beta, where have you been? Camping at Malinovka?

soulspectre #6 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 04:00

    Captain

  • Beta Testers
  • 13445 battles
  • 1,759
  • Member since:
    07-24-2010

View Postmerig00, on Oct 08 2010 - 03:53, said:

Uhm it's been in game even before the beginning of the EU Closed Beta, where have you been? Camping at Malinovka?
lol, so it is. I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Can't notice the ridges in the centre and the trains are missing and so is the lake and river, but yeah that map sucks almost as bad. It's only redeeming feature is that it is more balanced between the spawn points than Malinovka and both sides can't instant spam each-other from their basecamps.

Mike_Hammer #7 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 14:25

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 474
  • Member since:
    09-14-2010
Prokhorovka is a fine map, has loads of options for advancing as well as defending. The absolute worst option is for *everyone* to sit camping one corner, don't do that and you'll have a blast.

A joy for light tanks whether it's a low tier or max tier fight. Once got two arty and then made a Tiger2 with friend waste several minutes trying to hit my Pz3, while I nibbled at them with my stubby 7,5cm, and while my team got free reign from these two two blast away. To top it off I got finishing blow on the Tiger2  :Smile-playing:

Best Pz3 game I've had.


In KV I've hid in a bush and singleshotted two scouts that didn't see me before it was too late, and then went on to support my team in fighting their bigger tanks.

It's a good map, and I like these presentation threads. Cheers merig00.

TrIpMo #8 Posted Oct 08 2010 - 14:30

    Captain

  • Beta Testers
  • 2 battles
  • 1,151
  • Member since:
    09-05-2010
Well I wish we would get more maps like Ensk.
I hate those wide open, flat maps.

Arty heaven maps I call them

edocsil123 #9 Posted Oct 09 2010 - 16:43

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 62
  • Member since:
    09-21-2010
waw, good information  :Smile_honoring:

Bajuware #10 Posted Oct 10 2010 - 20:46

    Private

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 5
  • Member since:
    07-14-2010

Quote

Well I wish we would get more maps like Ensk.
I hate those wide open, flat maps.

Arty heaven maps I call them

i totally disagree.
Prokhorovka is one of the finest maps currently in the game. Especially when you drive medium Tanks.

utahman #11 Posted Oct 11 2010 - 02:38

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 13018 battles
  • 268
  • [AGOGE] AGOGE
  • Member since:
    07-05-2010
This is my favorite map too! Some of the bests matches I have ever had have been on Prokhorovka. Paradise for mediums, especially my Pz III. Lots of room to manouver and lots of ways to play it. I think it's probably one of, if not the best maps in the game. But that could be beacuse I like to be moving rather than finding a nice little corner to camp in :rolleyes:

killakanz #12 Posted Oct 13 2010 - 16:43

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 579
  • Member since:
    08-17-2010

View Postmerig00, on Oct 08 2010 - 03:44, said:

View Poststeelers708, on Oct 08 2010 - 03:30, said:

Please stop quoting Soviet propaganda figures about the number of tanks involved at Prokhorovka, especially when talking about losses. There are plenty of modern books by very respectable authors that can give you the exact figures involved for both sides(including losses) on the 12th July, with the figures taken from official records/documents etc, not that crap the old Soviet Union put out.
You are free to post them here. I don't really care since the post is more about the map and where it came from.

I have sources that give somewhat different figures.
The combined force of the 'Leibstandarte', 'Das Reich' and 'Totenkopf' SS Divisions at the start of the battle totalled some 456 tanks, including possibly 70 Tiger 1 tanks (provided the 45 from 10th Panzer Brigade took part, it's not confirmed).
Red Army at the start of the battle are numbered at maximum of 850 tanks spread through 3 tank armies and a further 3 reserve divisions.

As for units lost, official German figures put their loss quite a lot lower than the Soviets claim; 3 tanks totally destroyed, 89 damaged, 41 of which badly enough to return to factories. Men; 552 casualties, 97 missing. Luftwaffe had a much worse time than the tanks, they lost 220 of their 966 aircraft.

Soviet figures are somewhat hazy but believed to be substantially larger; around 5,500 killed, some 207-334 tanks destroyed, 420 damaged. Air losses are unknown.

Neither side achieved their objective. The Germans were expecting very light resistance as they launched their attack, a few anti-tank guns maybe. The shock of meeting Soviet tank armies in huge numbers stalled the offensive and although inflicting huge casualties on the Soviets, the Red Army held the line until Hitler ordered his armies to break off the attack.
The Soviets turned it into a massive propaganda victory. There's no doubt that stopping the Germans dead in their tracks here was a major turning point in the war, however propaganda since then has seriously messed up the statistics and public knowledge of the battle.

Rocangus #13 Posted Oct 17 2010 - 21:28

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 19
  • Member since:
    07-18-2010
It's awesome to have real-world battlefiends in the game. Pokhorovka is a pretty fun map once you learn how to play it. :) The ridges are ideal for cover against tanks and TDs, but SPGs can fire upon almost everything on the entire map, as long as they are close enough to the target.

Armouredgoof #14 Posted Oct 26 2010 - 11:55

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 5716 battles
  • 253
  • [QUIVR] QUIVR
  • Member since:
    08-31-2010
I think it is a good map too.  Wide open is what you want for tank operations.

Whinging about being too open for artillery means you aren't driving a tank, you are parking a tank, no sympathy here.
I love playing this map as a light, the artilley just begs to be chased down.

tizianenel #15 Posted Oct 26 2010 - 21:38

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 406
  • Member since:
    07-31-2010

View Postarmouredgoof, on Oct 26 2010 - 11:55, said:

I think it is a good map too.  Wide open is what you want for tank operations.

Whinging about being too open for artillery means you aren't driving a tank, you are parking a tank, no sympathy here.
I love playing this map as a light, the artilley just begs to be chased down.


Very nice map for my TD playstyle. Bushes all around while the ridges make shooting everywhere tricky, isn't quite as badly limited in routes one can take as some other maps (like karelia and lakeville). I imagine every tank can use their preferred playstyle here, whether it be sniping from one spot or roaming around like crazy. There's even a little bit of "rocky tanks" to be done in the town, using the buildings as (temporary) cover.

Perhaps my only gripe is the northeast corner not being accessible because of the river. Any close defense near the railroad crossing has enemy coming from a wider area an naturally funneled into where you are defending. The southeast corner of map is more interesting, with the slow to climb hill next to the pond and the railroad crossing not being quite as close to the end of the map.

--
As for the map being good for artillery, that's just historical ;)
The battle of kursk had a huge amount of artillery, three to five times as many artillery/mortar pieces as there were tanks. Quoting one part from wikipedia "the density of anti-tank guns was 23.7 guns per kilometre of defended front." in the heaviest AT gun areas.

steelers708 #16 Posted Dec 23 2010 - 00:49

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 82
  • Member since:
    07-24-2010
I appreciate that eyewitneses' may have varying views on events they witnessed and can understand that may be conveyed in history books, but unlike you when it pertains to events like Prokhrovka, I like to learn about and study the facts of those events, not the fiction.  If we were all to take your attitude then we would learn nothing of the actual events only the perceived events.

Regarding my point about Prokhrovka you do not have to rely on peoples memories to get the figures you only have to refer to original Divisional/Corps etc documentation that exists to get to the truth, and after all what is the point in studying/learning about history if your not interested in the actual facts of the event, if all your after is a good war story then I suggest you go and read the Sven Hassel books.

Mick0311 #17 Posted Jan 04 2011 - 00:40

    Private

  • Beta Testers
  • 266 battles
  • 5
  • Member since:
    12-22-2010

View Poststeelers708, on Dec 23 2010 - 00:49, said:

I appreciate that eyewitneses' may have varying views on events they witnessed and can understand that may be conveyed in history books, but unlike you when it pertains to events like Prokhrovka, I like to learn about and study the facts of those events, not the fiction.  If we were all to take your attitude then we would learn nothing of the actual events only the perceived events.

Regarding my point about Prokhrovka you do not have to rely on peoples memories to get the figures you only have to refer to original Divisional/Corps etc documentation that exists to get to the truth, and after all what is the point in studying/learning about history if your not interested in the actual facts of the event, if all your after is a good war story then I suggest you go and read the Sven Hassel books.


Wow, could you be any more of a typical Squeeler's fan?  lol  Straight obnoxious.  Good lord.

steelers708 #18 Posted Jan 04 2011 - 03:21

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 82
  • Member since:
    07-24-2010

View PostMick0311, on Jan 04 2011 - 00:40, said:

Wow, could you be any more of a typical Squeeler's fan?  lol  Straight obnoxious.  Good lord.

Aren't you touchy, wouldn't be a Bungles or Brownies(after Sunday maybe Girl Guides is better) fan would we?  Or is it just jealousy, 20 Division Titles(since the 1970 merger) and 6 Superbowl wins will do that to a person.

I may be obnoxious to you if you want to make it personal, but having spent 40 years as a historian(albeit amateur) of WWII,  I'm fed up with people still peddling the shit that was around when I was a kid in the 60's when modern researchers have studied the actual records and finally debunked all that Communist crap, only for gullible people like you to swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Falcon91 #19 Posted Jan 09 2011 - 04:42

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 60 battles
  • 13
  • Member since:
    01-04-2011

View Poststeelers708, on Jan 04 2011 - 03:21, said:

Aren't you touchy, wouldn't be a Bungles or Brownies(after Sunday maybe Girl Guides is better) fan would we?  Or is it just jealousy, 20 Division Titles(since the 1970 merger) and 6 Superbowl wins will do that to a person.

I may be obnoxious to you if you want to make it personal, but having spent 40 years as a historian(albeit amateur) of WWII,  I'm fed up with people still peddling the shit that was around when I was a kid in the 60's when modern researchers have studied the actual records and finally debunked all that Communist crap, only for gullible people like you to swallow it hook, line and sinker.

BACK ON TOPIC AWAY FROM THE FOOTBALL BULLCRAP

In the end this battle helped determine the war, that's all that matters. To get the real records you'd have to go into the russian war documents which VERY few people have access to outside of the russian military and government.

nublex #20 Posted Jan 24 2011 - 10:00

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 13609 battles
  • 2,949
  • Member since:
    01-05-2011
But the map in game is really bad...or rather....."Hell"; whoever pushing pass across the other half loses; unless one side is under gun on the road side.

If the map is more like the real Prokhorovka it would be better.