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E75 & E50- Transmission Change


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Poll: Transmission Moved to Front- E75 & E50 (375 members have cast votes)

Do you think this move is right?

  1. Yes (36 votes [9.60%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.60%

  2. No (339 votes [90.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.40%

If this decision is overwhelmingly unpopular, what should the devs do?

  1. Reconsider the change? (271 votes [56.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.58%

  2. Explain the logic behind the decision? (171 votes [35.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.70%

  3. Other (please specify)? (37 votes [7.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.72%

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Fruity_Ninja #1 Posted May 31 2012 - 10:39

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Hello Fellow Tankers

I absolutely love this game, and I started in the German line.  I have sinced moved to other lines, but continue to play my German tanks (my personal favourites being the VK3601 and E75).  I have just been reading another post in the general discussion area, and there is some information in there which has got me thinking.  I am posting this in the German heavies section, and wanted to get thoughts of other German tankers in regards to the below:


•Fixed or reworked damage models of M2 lt, M3 Lee, JagdTiger, Gw E, Т-28, IS-8 (mantlet), Е-50 (transmission moved to front), Е-75 (transmission moved to front), VK4502B (transmission moved to the middle part of the vehicle)
http://forum.worldof...anks-eu-server/

In particular the information which concerned me was the E75 and E50 having their transmission box moved to the front.  The E75 is such a good tank, and one of the gems of this line- and it got me to thinking "why"?  Is this change necessary?  If so, should Wargaming come out and tell us "why"?

Don't get me wrong, I really don't think there is much wrong with German tanks- although I know many on these forums are vocal about 'Russian Bias' and such.  I have not been one to really buy into this theory much, or the 'Anti German' theories- but something like this just doesn't seem right.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the E75 or E50 have 55%-60% global win ratios, nor are they miles ahead of their relevant tiered competition.

Please share your thoughts on this information.  I think we need to speak up, and maybe if we are lucky the devs will consider this decision in a new light.  Either that, or we will get a reasonable logical explanation for such a choice.  We can only try, but lets keep this civil as if it turns into a slinging match it will only hurt our cause.

-Fruity Ninja

Edited by Fruity_Ninja, May 31 2012 - 10:42.


Kristine #2 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:08

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Well, there goes the only good heavies the germans have. GG devs

Millbarge #3 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:18

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I'm sure the new 400 Pen Gold Ammo that the RU tanks get will never catch them on fire either

Vengeful_Wolf #4 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:29

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my fav heavy........goodbye my love

sarkinc #5 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:42

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I'm rather pissed off about this.

Moving it to the front makes no god damn sense, you have the engine in the back, the transmission in the front just to send the power back to the rear drive wheel?

Edited by sarkinc, May 31 2012 - 11:44.


Mlyrecha #6 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:48

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Not sure if trolling, or OP went full retard. Ain't No one likes front transmission. Ain't no one.

Mlyrecha #7 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:53

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You clearly state the E75/50 does not have 55-60 win ratio, u clearly state the E75/50 is not miles ahead of it's other tanks. Therefore, WHY NEEDLESSLY NERF IT?!?!?!?! You're not helping our cause. You're not helping ANYONE. No one wants to read this. Go hide in a hole or smt.

miles1991 #8 Posted May 31 2012 - 11:56

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That would be it...

It was fun while it lasted...goodbye my friends.

Herr_Klug #9 Posted May 31 2012 - 12:01

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I'd like to see the documentation that states the E-50/E-75 were to designed to be front drive when before their release the devs stated rear drive was "historically accurate". Remember that speed boost feature that was dropped for the E series?

Tolos #10 Posted May 31 2012 - 12:08

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View PostHerr_Klug, on May 31 2012 - 12:01, said:

I'd like to see the documentation that states the E-50/E-75 were to designed to be front drive when before their release the devs stated rear drive was "historically accurate". Remember that speed boost feature that was dropped for the E series?

Well lets be honest, of the E50 had kept that speed boost, it would have been hugely OP. But i do agree with what most people are saying about the E75/50

However  http://fingolfen.tri...series/e50.html is pretty good, and the Bit that stands out for me is near the bottom, for those that dont want to read all of it

ENGINE


The engine chosen was an improved version of the Maybach HL230 as fitted to the Panther and the Tiger II. Called the HL234, it developed 900 HP using fuel injection, and was expected to produce up to 1200 HP with supercharging. The improvements included sodium filled valves to withstand the higher exhaust gas temperatures. The location of fuel tanks, radiators and fans was similar to the Tiger II. Maximum speed was to be 60 KPH for the E-50 and 40 KPH for the E-75. The idea was to assemble both types on the same production line, using identical production machinery and brought in sub assemblies.

As mentioned earlier the final drive for the whole series was meant to be at the rear of the vehicle. However none of the drawings of E-50/75 make any space allowance at all for a rear gearbox and final drive except for adding teeth to what was the idler. For instance the turret would probably have to be a couple of feet further forward on the hull top. Also they all show the standard Tiger II sprocket at the front of the vehicle as well! I think that the E-50 probably had the gearbox at the front: the E- 100 certainly did. I believe the projected rear drive motor was to have been the Maybach HL233P with ZF gearbox but my German isn't that good!

E-50 and E-75 were to have been the backbone of the German army, with most other fighting vehicles such as self propelled guns, etc, on either Waffentrager or Panzer 38D chassis. The E-25 was quietly dropped in favour of the 38D, a wholly German, greatly simplified and enlarged development of the Czech Panzer 38(t). Panzer IV chassis production was to be phased out completely as all the weapons it carried in its various guises could be taken by the 38D which was two thirds the weight and size. With that sort of rationalisation of the ground forces in equipment, logistics and training combined with new automatic personal weaponry such as the MP43/Sturmgewehr 44 and the traditional tenacity of the German soldier, the Wehrmacht would have been an even harder enemy if the war had gone on into 1946/47. The Army would have been complemented by an all jet Luftwaffe and strategic forces using long range ballistic missiles, such as developed versions of the V-2!

This is about as close as I have managed to find so far, while this source isnt " perfect "  he is correct about 99% of the stuff

Fruity_Ninja #11 Posted May 31 2012 - 13:25

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View Postnite0807, on May 31 2012 - 11:53, said:

You clearly state the E75/50 does not have 55-60 win ratio, u clearly state the E75/50 is not miles ahead of it's other tanks. Therefore, WHY NEEDLESSLY NERF IT?!?!?!?! You're not helping our cause. You're not helping ANYONE. No one wants to read this. Go hide in a hole or smt.

Sorry but did you read my post?  Or you trolling?

I agree that it is a needless nerf... The reason for my original post was to get the feedback of other German tankers and their thoughts on this change.  With a bit of luck, I was hopeful that it wasn't just me that felt this way.  My next wish was (given the majority of people actually felt this was unjustified), that WG may listen to our voice and either offer an explanation and/or reconsider the decision.

So your comment about me going to hide in a hole, and not helping anyone- you should really think about retracting that statement.  My intent is 100% to gather enough voice on this forum to provoke action, sorry for caring...

Into the communities hands this issue lies, it is easier now to be heard before the changes are made, rather than after the fact.  If you have nothing constructive to add, don't join the conversation.

-Fruity Ninja

Fruity_Ninja #12 Posted May 31 2012 - 13:29

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View PostTolos, on May 31 2012 - 12:08, said:

However  http://fingolfen.tri...series/e50.html is pretty good, and the Bit that stands out for me is near the bottom, for those that dont want to read all of it

Thankyou Tolos for your constructive post and information- much appreciated

I will have a read over the link now..  :)

MaxL_1023 #13 Posted May 31 2012 - 13:34

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It won't make a huge difference - the E-50 doesn't take a lot of lower glacis hits because the upper is easier to pen in most cases due to angles. The E-75 will still bounce anything under 225 pen and anything under 235 most of the time when angled, and most E-75 battle strategies either involve using the armor to roll through lower tiers or using cover+ angling to force shots to the nearly impenetrable upper front or turret. You need to remember that 4 hits to the lower glacis from the tanks that can pen it will usually either kill you or leave you at low HP, so if you happen to lose your engine once and burn a repair kit it won't really make a huge difference. As well, the E-75s engine has a low chance of fire to begin with. This is a nerf, but it won't make a huge difference.

Kristine #14 Posted May 31 2012 - 13:48

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Good bye E-series, you've been fun.

vit12345 #15 Posted May 31 2012 - 14:01

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Great. I'm about to buy an E-50 and now this.

Time to get another Russian tank :Smile-angry:

tank_sniper #16 Posted May 31 2012 - 15:54

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Le sigh, they are trying and failing to adjust a tank that has a rear mounted engine to be moved to the front, the designs of the E-75/50 have no allowance for it to be frontally mounted plus that type of design was liked by porche and their tank designs mostly became TD's the only one of which was the Maus that was not a TD.  A front mounted engine with a lot of armor to cover it is a good thing but with how WGing likes to make a joke of german armor and it's thickness ruins it.

I can forsee this causing fire issues as well even with a low fire chance it almost feels like they are adding this change as a cover for the fact they can't fix most tank shots setting them on fire from frontal hits.  Was a problem in beta and will always be a problem anyone who wants German steel will face sadly.

It is nice to see the pole in favor of reversing the upcoming changes but from what i have seen over this games development the Dev's will 99.9% of the time ignore players unless it is something they can't cover for such as when the T54 was first released.  The game has the potential sadly it will never reach it, back to BF1942 FH and FHSW mod for me!

Mow_Mow #17 Posted May 31 2012 - 15:58

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What happens when everyone whines and demands that the E-100 transmission to be moved to the rear to make it the same as the E-50/E-75, then they end up moving the other two to the front :/

(Historically, however, evidence points that the E-100 hull found by the British army had a front wheel drive.)

PzAbt505 #18 Posted May 31 2012 - 17:01

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saw this coming a while ago, so despite my near depleated silver pile im gona play my E75 while theres still a sliver of fun left in it.
anyone who voted "Explain the logic behind the decision" all your going to get is.. "ballance issues" balance my ass.. they just wont allow any advantage for playing a german tank. what so ever.
no other way this is anything else than another case of "my russian tank cant roflstomp things anymore, GIVE ME INSTANT GRATIFICATION!"

i see 3 spies in this poll..  :Smile-angry:  they better go slither back to the soviet tank threads..

-edit: it seems there are 6 in our ranks..  son I am dissapoint..

Edited by PzAbt505, Jun 01 2012 - 17:25.


fritz3d #19 Posted May 31 2012 - 19:01

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It's an intentional nerf, there is no other reasoning behind this change.

WarStore #20 Posted May 31 2012 - 19:16

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There is no logic behind this change.... it is one of those things that make people believe in russian bias theory.

I don't know why they make such unpopular decision. It is like they don't give a crap about what the players/costumers think.They just do things as it pleases them. WG Fail.




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