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E75 & E50- Transmission Change


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Poll: Transmission Moved to Front- E75 & E50 (375 members have cast votes)

Do you think this move is right?

  1. Yes (36 votes [9.60%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.60%

  2. No (339 votes [90.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.40%

If this decision is overwhelmingly unpopular, what should the devs do?

  1. Reconsider the change? (271 votes [56.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.58%

  2. Explain the logic behind the decision? (171 votes [35.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.70%

  3. Other (please specify)? (37 votes [7.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.72%

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Elsior #41 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:17

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The question that you don't ask WarGaming is...

"Why?"

German tanks are already underarmoured and undergunned because of the power creep that came with the introduction of high penetration, fast reload guns of the new US, French, and Soviet tanks.

As a player that plays tanks of ALL nations, I am disappointed WarGaming has no sense of improving game balance.

Edited by Elsior, Jun 01 2012 - 04:18.


c0mp3t3nc3 #42 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:23

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View Postsarkinc, on Jun 01 2012 - 01:46, said:

Please tell me how it makes any sense to have the drive sprocket at the front when it can't possibly be connected to anything.
To those saying it won't cause a lot of fires, go play your tiger and panther again.

p.s the fact your saying to use gold to lower the chances of fire is bs.

the automatic fire extinguishers reduce chance of fire by 10%. take that from the quoted 15% chance of fire for the top engine(20% Tiger 2 engine), and your looking at 13.5% and 18% chance of fire respectively.this means for each shot that deals damage to the drive position has said % chance of lighting the tank up.my E-100 rarely gets lit on fire. in the last week, ice only been lit up once or twice in the nearly 20 games I have played in my E-100 since sunday.

aPyro_ #43 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:28

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E-75 is actually a good tank. It has more alpha than the IS-8 and ST-1, that took me back a little, but like all German tanks, they won't be German without hilarious problems like fires every other shot, low DPM fail guns and stupidly huge silhouettes (so they can get sidehugged by every soviet tank in the game! :D)

imo, E-75 doesnt deserve it though. its the only half decent german tank in the game... dat aint fair

Edited by aPyro_, Jun 01 2012 - 04:30.


lugzan #44 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:31

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sigh i will need retrain my whole e-75 crew again

sarkinc #45 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:40

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View Posttheaptpupil, on Jun 01 2012 - 04:23, said:

the automatic fire extinguishers reduce chance of fire by 10%. take that from the quoted 15% chance of fire for the top engine(20% Tiger 2 engine), and your looking at 13.5% and 18% chance of fire respectively.this means for each shot that deals damage to the drive position has said % chance of lighting the tank up.my E-100 rarely gets lit on fire. in the last week, ice only been lit up once or twice in the nearly 20 games I have played in my E-100 since sunday.

So we have to pay gold now not to be set on fire? gtfo.

w00j #46 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:42

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Since the only original designs of the E-75 and E-50 are just drawings shown with rear toothed sprockets indicating a rear drive transmission, this change is completely uncalled for and factually wrong.

The whole German tank tree is a joke.

Oh wait, we still got the Ferdi and GW-E I guess.....

Tupinambis #47 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:50

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A nerf is a nerf but this is NOT going to ruin the E-75. Again, you guys are being WAYY over dramatic. E-75 got nerfed, M103 got nerfed, VK4502B got buffed, IS-8 still has no armor, both the ST-I and IS-8 still have terrible handling.

Yeah, sorry I know it sucks, but its just insulting to listen to you guys complain about the E-75, with its 120mm of side armor, well sloped lower hull, and superior mobility, as if its going to be the worst tank in the entire game while the VK4502B is sitting right next to it.

PzAbt505 #48 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:51

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Posted Image
my feeling how the devs look at the forums.. any one else?

stcrazy #49 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:52

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well  i spent money on creds to get the E75

they will  have to pay me back some cash if they do this .

just sold panther11   not worth ginging E50 now

E100 sold last week  , to slow to compete with the modern russian and usa tanks
E75 sold last week as well, knew this was coming .

name me one teir where a german tank is tops ?  easy you can't , it;s all russian

i bought the E75 and you either keep it the way it is or we go to court to get my money back

TheBestAround #50 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:56

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What everyone think its going to be like, " THATs THE THIRD FIRE THIS GAME!", What its probably going to be like, " OH NO A FIRE, *Fire Extinguisher* Crisis averted," and then go back to destroying everything

h


Edited by TheBestAround, Jun 01 2012 - 04:58.


stcrazy #51 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:58

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trouble is it will be third fire this game , try playing the E100 it;s exactly like that

zorachus99 #52 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:59

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View PostTolos, on May 31 2012 - 12:08, said:

Well lets be honest, of the E50 had kept that speed boost, it would have been hugely OP. But i do agree with what most people are saying about the E75/50

However  http://fingolfen.tri...series/e50.html is pretty good, and the Bit that stands out for me is near the bottom, for those that dont want to read all of it


ENGINE


The engine chosen was an improved version of the Maybach HL230 as fitted to the Panther and the Tiger II. Called the HL234, it developed 900 HP using fuel injection, and was expected to produce up to 1200 HP with supercharging. The improvements included sodium filled valves to withstand the higher exhaust gas temperatures. The location of fuel tanks, radiators and fans was similar to the Tiger II. Maximum speed was to be 60 KPH for the E-50 and 40 KPH for the E-75. The idea was to assemble both types on the same production line, using identical production machinery and brought in sub assemblies.

As mentioned earlier the final drive for the whole series was meant to be at the rear of the vehicle. However none of the drawings of E-50/75 make any space allowance at all for a rear gearbox and final drive except for adding teeth to what was the idler. For instance the turret would probably have to be a couple of feet further forward on the hull top. Also they all show the standard Tiger II sprocket at the front of the vehicle as well! I think that the E-50 probably had the gearbox at the front: the E- 100 certainly did. I believe the projected rear drive motor was to have been the Maybach HL233P with ZF gearbox but my German isn't that good!

E-50 and E-75 were to have been the backbone of the German army, with most other fighting vehicles such as self propelled guns, etc, on either Waffentrager or Panzer 38D chassis. The E-25 was quietly dropped in favour of the 38D, a wholly German, greatly simplified and enlarged development of the Czech Panzer 38(t). Panzer IV chassis production was to be phased out completely as all the weapons it carried in its various guises could be taken by the 38D which was two thirds the weight and size. With that sort of rationalisation of the ground forces in equipment, logistics and training combined with new automatic personal weaponry such as the MP43/Sturmgewehr 44 and the traditional tenacity of the German soldier, the Wehrmacht would have been an even harder enemy if the war had gone on into 1946/47. The Army would have been complemented by an all jet Luftwaffe and strategic forces using long range ballistic missiles, such as developed versions of the V-2!

This is about as close as I have managed to find so far, while this source isnt " perfect "  he is correct about 99% of the stuff

When the heck has realism creeped into this game?

Target_7 #53 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 04:59

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Historical accuracy is irrelevant becuase this is not an historical simulation it is an on line tank game.  The german E series has a lower glacis weak spot that is huge and easily penetrated by tanks equal to its tier.  Now we will get hit and move like a tracked t-28.  It doesn't make sense.  Especially on the E-50 where mobility is critical.  When every other tank line is getting buffed by power creep the Germans are getting nerfed.  If this is in the name of "balance" and "accuracy" then the German tank line must have been gossly OP to start with because the nerfs just keep on coming.

I appreciate the stats that say the changes will be slight but wonder why the changes are not slight in the other direction?  If the other nations are getting buffed why not keep the Germans in the arms race as well?

Edited by Target_7, Jun 01 2012 - 05:02.


Mow_Mow #54 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 05:00

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As if there we needed fewer reasons to use the E-50 in CW...

Edited by Mow_Mow, Jun 01 2012 - 05:00.


w00j #55 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 05:01

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View PostTheBestAround, on Jun 01 2012 - 04:56, said:

What everyone think its going to be like, " THATs THE THIRD FIRE THIS GAME!", What its probably going to be like, " OH NO A FIRE, *Fire Extinguisher* Crisis averted," and then go back to destroying everything

h

Try playing the E-100...... I've caught fire 3 times in a single game, twice from the front, once from the side.

sarkinc #56 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 06:53

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View PostTupinambis, on Jun 01 2012 - 04:50, said:

A nerf is a nerf but this is NOT going to ruin the E-75. Again, you guys are being WAYY over dramatic. E-75 got nerfed, M103 got nerfed, VK4502B got buffed, IS-8 still has no armor, both the ST-I and IS-8 still have terrible handling.

Yeah, sorry I know it sucks, but its just insulting to listen to you guys complain about the E-75, with its 120mm of side armor, well sloped lower hull, and superior mobility, as if its going to be the worst tank in the entire game while the VK4502B is sitting right next to it.

Have you used the e-75? what.. no? funny that.
It's lower plate is not all that strong tier 8s can punch through it reliably.

As it stands the vk4502B has far more reliable front armour tbh.

Edited by sarkinc, Jun 01 2012 - 06:53.


Embiggener #57 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 07:13

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View PostKristine, on May 31 2012 - 11:08, said:

Well, there goes the only good heavies the germans have. GG devs

Not really.

Both German tier 9's already achieved crap status in the current live version, with the Aufs B getting the worst of it.   You can punch holes in their upper plate or turret face all day long with other nations' tier 9 heavies, and their guns don't fire fast enough or do enough DPM to be viable.  Slow speed, awful camo, and mediocre radio and view range rounds out the suckage.

A lot of people seem to have not noticed this happening, but I assure you it's already a done deal.

There is virtually no reason to run one of these things if you can avoid it.  I groan when I see an E-75 on my team; they're a wasted tier 9 heavy slot.

E-50 is already a non-entity, it has no use whatsoever in clan wars and is basically a tank for goofing around in pub matches.  It's not bad at that, but the changes here don't really mean anything for it.

Mow_Mow #58 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 08:47

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I'd like to see you punch holes in the E-75's upper plate at a flat angle with AP shells. Video or it didn't happen.

E-75's upper glacis is one of the strongest plates in the game, reliably surpassed only by the Maus' 200mm at 50 degrees, and E-100's 200mm at 60 degrees. I find it hard to believe that the E-75's upper glacis can have holes punched 'all day long.'

Also, German heavies starting from tier 8 onward have the highest view range in the entire game outside of the Patton. I'd like to see how at tier 8, the same view range as tier 10 tanks is "mediocre."

MaxL_1023 #59 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 14:04

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I get penned in the upper plate by the T110 and IS-4 (and the tier 9s) fairly often, but I bounce more rounds then get through, maybe 30% of T110 shots will pen at close range. The Upper plate of the E-75 is about the same as the T29s gun mantlet in effective thickness if you angle a bit. You won't bounce Tier 9 TDs reliably but you will do better aganst them then any other t9 would.

Hilariously yesterday a M103 penned my T30s gunshield - first time i have even seen a hole in that part of the tank. I promptly blew him up so nbd but still funny.

PzAbt505 #60 Posted Jun 01 2012 - 16:27

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View PostMow_Mow, on Jun 01 2012 - 08:47, said:

I'd like to see you punch holes in the E-75's upper plate at a flat angle with AP shells. Video or it didn't happen.

I can give a little credibility to that. 2 nights ago an M103 dead ahead of me managed to do that from about 100 meters on Himmelsdorf and I have seen it happen to other tanks before, its rare but possible..
almost took a screen shot because of the shock, im sorry I didnt..

then again it could allways be rich kids spraying gold rounds..




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