75 replies to this topic

[KiwiMark67]

AznTank7, on Jun 12 2012 - 03:51, said:

First off why would a Tiger fight a E-75 or E-100 in real life? Rogue Germans? Also I believe the E series were only planned, not constructed due to advancing forces/bombed factories. Not trying to belittle you, just trying to make a good argument.

Well, keep trying.
Maybe try re-reading my post and understanding what I was saying, that would be a good start.

Nothing you say argues with anything I said.
I NEVER said that the Tiger would fight an E-75, I said that in real life the Tiger would attack the M4 Sherman & the T-34. in the game as in real life the Tiger IS OP compared to those tanks.
But in the game UNLIKE in real life (where a Tiger would NOT fight an E-75 or E-100) the Tiger faces tanks that are more OP than it is.
Just because in real life a Tiger could stomp a T-34 it doesn't mean that in the game it should be able to fire shells through an IS-7 with ease.

[Gryphon_]

I would have no problem with the Tiger going faster on roads, but the main issue that needs to be fixed is the ridiculous speeds that many tanks do offroad. The difference between on and off road should be much higher. Roads are things of extreme tactical importance to tanks in real life, but much less so in game. A Tiger should require extreme driver care offroad to avoid getting bogged down.

In real life, good luck driving any tank through flooded ground - I've seen light tanks sunk up to their turret rings. Tanks like the T50 that can go real fast on roads should be sliding all over the place offroad. Most tanks just cant climb wet slopes - they slide down. It's also worth noting that driving a WW2 tank across a river by any means other than a bridge is not recommended.

So by all means get the tops speeds on tarmac of all tanks adjusted to reality, but a serious nerf to offroad speed is also needed for most if not all tanks.

[Mow_Mow]

Gryphon_, on Jun 13 2012 - 16:35, said:

I would have no problem with the Tiger going faster on roads, but the main issue that needs to be fixed is the ridiculous speeds that many tanks do offroad. The difference between on and off road should be much higher. Roads are things of extreme tactical importance to tanks in real life, but much less so in game. A Tiger should require extreme driver care offroad to avoid getting bogged down.

In real life, good luck driving any tank through flooded ground - I've seen light tanks sunk up to their turret rings. Tanks like the T50 that can go real fast on roads should be sliding all over the place offroad. Most tanks just cant climb wet slopes - they slide down. It's also worth noting that driving a WW2 tank across a river by any means other than a bridge is not recommended.

So by all means get the tops speeds on tarmac of all tanks adjusted to reality, but a serious nerf to offroad speed is also needed for most if not all tanks.

The reason they are so high is so that the match can finish within 15 minutes. Most maps are not well roaded, and allow tanks to travel at a "decent" speed off road allows for increased tactical possibility. It's a historical sacrifice for the sake of game play viability.

[Gryphon_]

Mow_Mow, on Jun 13 2012 - 17:13, said:

The reason they are so high is so that the match can finish within 15 minutes. Most maps are not well roaded, and allow tanks to travel at a "decent" speed off road allows for increased tactical possibility. It's a historical sacrifice for the sake of game play viability.

Good point on map time, but as the maps are maximum 1km side to side, you can cross any map at just 15kph in 4 minutes. Average match lasts 6 minutes these days, unless I'm mistaken, so there is considerable scope for longer matches as-is.

However, I disagree that this 'increases' tactical possibility; if roads were significantly faster than off-road, access to roads would have a greater tactical value than it does now, and the bigger the difference between the various tactical options, the better the game.

Edited by Gryphon_, Jun 13 2012 - 17:46.

[Mow_Mow]

Gryphon_, on Jun 13 2012 - 17:44, said:

Good point on map time, but as the maps are maximum 1km side to side, you can cross any map at just 15kph in 4 minutes. Average match lasts 6 minutes these days, unless I'm mistaken.

However, I disagree that this 'increases' tactical possibility; if roads were significantly faster, access to roads wouldhave a greater tactical value than it does now, and the bigger the difference between the various tactical options, the better the game.

Most tanks' maximum speed in-game is their historical road speed. Also, for most heavy tanks in poor ground they make about 5-8 kph right now. Are you arguing for an increase or decrease in speed on poor ground?

[LoooSeR78V]

AznTank7, on Jun 12 2012 - 03:51, said:

Second Will_of_Iron is right. Tigers decimated Allied tanks throughout the war. Not just because of penetration, but also because Tigers could accurately hit you out of conventional combat ranges. So yes, Tiger was a sniper in real life. They also rocked Soviet tanks  
Thats why they made the IS! IF my sources are reliable, the only Allied tanks that were capable of penetrating a Tiger frontally was the IS(122mm) and the British Firefly(76.2mm aka 17pdr). The M26 Pershing probably could also.

You forgot T-34-85 (could pen Tiger from up to 1000 meters)
SU-85 (same distance)
SU-100 (from up to 2 km)
SU-152
ISU-152

Edited by LoooSeR78V, Jun 13 2012 - 17:52.

[Gryphon_]

Mow_Mow, on Jun 13 2012 - 17:47, said:

Most tanks' maximum speed in-game is their historical road speed. Also, for most heavy tanks in poor ground they make about 5-8 kph right now. Are you arguing for an increase or decrease in speed on poor ground?

I understand the Tiger is too slow on the road, so I support raising it to 38kph. For offroad, the speed in game is usually the same as onroad; I suggest it be lower except in maps intended to be bone-dry. In swamps or water it sounds like it's slow enough as is. Performance on sand should be poor, unless on tracks or roads. I guess the change I'm looking for is a noticeable change in speed when you go onto or off a road. Not just the Tiger - I wouldnt expect to see T-50s doing 60 kph on dirt either

[Mow_Mow]

Basically from what I see, there are three types of terrain

Road - this is generally, well, road, and tanks will go max speed on this terrain. Also in El Halluf and Sand River, you see this with just "dirt" terrain.

Grass - this represents off-road in "good" terrain - tanks will not reach max speed unless they are light tanks and/or have exceptional passing ability. For example, the Tiger I will do well here, but the IS-7 will start to bog down. It'll reach maybe 25-30kph instead of its 35-38kph road speed. It's not exceptionally noticeable but on tanks with poor passing ability you can see this. (German and USA tanks tend to have good passing ability, where as there are quite a few Soviet tanks which bog down heavily.)

Mud - This is the worst terrain and we all know what it looks like. Your tank will bog down to less than 10kph in most cases. You're still movable compared to RL because you, well, need to get your tank unstuck. You don't want to play a game where if you make a stupid mistake then you just stuck yourself for the rest of the game? Look at all the rage about the holes in the maps, or getting stuck on rocks. People don't like getting stuck.

[Gryphon_]

I agree with the definitions with the possible exceptions of:

1) sand dunes, like in Sand River; driving on dunes should be pretty much like mud as traction is minimal.
2) water - like rivers or lakes - should be at least as bad as mud if not worse

[Mow_Mow]

You do bog right down in water, have you tried going into the lake in Live Oaks? Also, sand dunes are pretty poor terrain compared to dirt, the IS-7 will not reach a good cruising speed on sand. If it were mud then all you need in Sand River area  bunch of camo nets and 12 arty pieces.

[Gryphon_]

Yes, I have been in the lake in Live Oaks and its pretty easy to travel through the water. I think that spoils that map; the bridge is a great chokepoint that can be avoided by taking a swim. No tanker would ever drive through a lake or across an unmarked ford. Perhaps having certain areas of rivers marked as fords would add some more tactical dimension to the game?

I didnt get to play Sand River last night, but if the dunes are slow going compared to solid dirt, thats fine.

I did notice on one map that speed changed noticeably when driving from road to dirt - which is good.

[CalvinThumma]

If they're gonna adjust the tiger's top speed they should with all the tanks in the game, which we know won't happen. The Tiger 2's top speed was very close to the Tiger's.

http://www.worldwar2aces.com/ and http://www.historyof...ons_tiger2.html

Along with the adjustment for top speed for the TIger's, many of the tanks in the game didn't exist expect in blueprints and some of them are made up almost entirely by WarGame.

[KiwiMark67]

CalvinThumma, on Jun 16 2012 - 00:04, said:

If they're gonna adjust the tiger's top speed they should with all the tanks in the game, which we know won't happen.

Nope, for game balance some tanks are nerfed compared to real life, but as mentioned the Tiger has a below average win rate for its tier & type, so a buff to historical values is not out of line.

[Silty]

Maybe the Live Oaks water is glitched to not be bad terrain?  The middle area in Swamp is a much better example.

[Gyarados]

SassanidShockCavalry, on Jun 05 2012 - 23:59, said:

oh i forgot to mention some annoying features of tiger:
TIGER gets engine fire 9/10 battles
TIGER gets ammo racked 9/10 battles
TIGER loses some of its crew 9/10 battles
TIGER loses some of its modules 9/10 battles
thats in the situation u engage the enemy...i mean they fire back and hit u
but this annoying things are rare in other tier 7 heavies.....so tiger really needs a buff to make it better than the shit it is now and tho the speed buff isnt that good but it makes the tank better

No it doesn't.

[Gryphon_]

Ive played just over 100 battles in a Tiger and I dont think I've had more than one fire, or a handful of ammo racks, but losses of crew members and modules occur every battle if I take damage. It's true what they say about angling the armor so the hull isnt pointing at the enemy - it really helps bounce rounds and avoid damage