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German Leopard 1 tank

New German teir 10 heavy

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Poll: Leopard 1 (30 members have cast votes)

Do you like my Leopard 1 proposal?

  1. Yes (16 votes [53.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.33%

  2. No (14 votes [46.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.67%

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XxdoorcountyxX #1 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 21:51

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Is everyone excited for the new teir 10 mediums and TD's? I took a look at them erealier today and for the most part they look pretty cool.

However, I got 1 question.

How come the new teir 9/10 Russian, American, and French tanks are from the age of "future tech" in the late 1950's 60's and yes, 70's while all of the German teir 9/10 vehicles remain in the "stone ages" of 1944 and below?

The current M46 Patton was the first in its series developed in the early 50's for the cold war, but never saw direct combat. However the new teir 10 M48A3 Patton was consturcted later in the 1960's and was THE primary battle tank for the U.S. during the vietnam war. (1955-1975). Now don't get me wrong, I love my E-100, but I find it quite anoying, and to be honest a little unfair to be fighting a tank 30 years in the future that was one of the most advanced tanks of its time.

On top of that, the T62 (new teir 10 russian medium) was the succesor of the T54 and built between 1961-1975. This tank later did lead to production of the T72, prbably the USSR's most successful battle tank of the Cold War. However, the T62 brought to the battlefield more powerful guns than its predicesors giving the Soviets another victory in techology. Again, thats cool and all, but why do I have to fight it with my E-100 from 1944 unless I want to spend another year reaserching a new tank tree.

Also, the Bat Chat and all those french autoloaders from the 50's, despite not really being used because of many flaws they did pave the way for auto loaders in vehicles. I have nothing against the Batchat and other frenchies other than it posesses 20 years more technology than my E-100.

I'd also take a look at the new Russian Object 268, but I couldn't find a website, blog, journal, article, or even a picture of it making me very suspicious. Never-the-less, it looks to come from the 1950's if it originated on this planet.

I had the same problem with the T110E4, T110E3 and the AMX 50 Foch or whatever that is.

Now, I'm cool with the new vehicles, I think it would be really neat to be fighting with the Cold War's best vehicles; to see how those battles would really turn out if the Soviets and Americans ever generated a Hot War like what almost happend after the Bay of Pigs incident. The French vehicles, though they never really saw combat provide more flavor and variety to the game than just American and Russian standoffs. However, the only thing that I ask is that my vehicle is from the same era.

Hence my proposal.

Wargaming should introduce a new German teir 10 heavy, the leopard 1

The leopard 1 was designed in the 1950's and produced in the 1960's. It was a very succesful design armed with the British L7A3 105mm rifled gun making it very powerful and accurate. Its MTU MB 838 Ca M500 multifuel deisle engine produced 830 hp bringing the Leopard 1 to a top speed of 65kph. On top of that the leopard 1 used a special gun stabalization system to allow it to fire on the move.

Now, to me this tank would be perfect for WOT, for openers it actaully existen in large numbers. On top of that it only has a 105mm gun not some uber canon of death like the 704 or, yes my E-100. Also its mobile and most importantly produced and used in the same time peroid as the new American, French and Soviet vehicles. The specail stablization system could be added as a unique charactersitic or left out for balancing purposes.

I think this tank could easily be very balanced, I'm guessing it would opperate a lot like the T110E5 and I think it could be a lot of fun to play and most importantly, its from the "future tech" ages.

If wargaming were to actually do this I think it should be introduced similar to the T110E5 was, where Maus and E-100 players have the choice to trade in their current vehicle for a leopard 1 or something like that.

So, what do you guys think of my proposal?

questions,

comments,

concerns,




PS. I love my E-100, but as of 7.2 WOT has changed "chemisty". The old superheavies are being traded out for the newer more mobile heavy/"mediums". All I want is the Germans to be given the same oppertunity as everyone else and not be stuck in the "Stone Ages of 1944".

lostwingman #2 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 21:54

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View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

Wargaming should introduce a new German teir 10 heavy, the leopard 1

While skimming down to see if there were any comments I saw that.
I am not even going to bother reading. OP didn't do any research and if probably blabbering about some misguided idea of what late 50s and early 60s tank designs were about.

EDIT: I'm a glutton for punishment.

View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

The current M46 Patton was the first in its series developed in the early 50's for the cold war, but never saw direct combat. However the new teir 10 M48A3 Patton was consturcted later in the 1960's and was THE primary battle tank for the U.S. during the vietnam war. (1955-1975).
Yea, see what I mean? I was right, OP did less research than it takes to check google.
The M46 Patton is virtually the same as the M26 Pershing that was deployed in WW2, only with powerpack and transmission upgrades. The M46 Patton btw was developed in '48 and deployed fully by '49. Would love to see the "50s" in there.
Then you completely get wrong what tank we are getting. It even says it in the update....it's the M48A1. I wish people would stop referring to it as the Patton III, it seems to only confuse people like this...


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

On top of that, the T62 (new teir 10 russian medium) was the succesor of the T54 and built between 1961-1975. This tank later did lead to production of the T72, prbably the USSR's most successful battle tank of the Cold War. However, the T62 brought to the battlefield more powerful guns than its predicesors giving the Soviets another victory in techology.
Yet again, no research performed, not even enough to have fully read the announcement.
We are not getting the T-62 that used the 115mm smoothbore.
We are getting the T-62A that is going to use a 100mm gun, the D-54TC which will be firing the same ammo as the M48A1 in game and we can expect the 105AusfK to perform similarly.
Also the T-62A and T-62 have less armor than the in game T-54. Keep bitching loud and proud and proving that you have no idea what your talking about.


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

Also, the Bat Chat and all those french autoloaders from the 50's, despite not really being used because of many flaws they did pave the way for auto loaders in vehicles. I have nothing against the Batchat and other frenchies other than it posesses 20 years more technology than my E-100.
Again you didn't do shit for research.
Autoloaders were dropped because of the oscillating turrets which were not air tight and thus could offer no protection in Chemical, Nuclear, or Biological warfare. Stop talking...please for the love of god stop talking...
Also Skoda designed a drum autoloader for the T-25, 20 years ahead my ass.


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

I'd also take a look at the new Russian Object 268, but I couldn't find a website, blog, journal, article, or even a picture of it making me very suspicious. Never-the-less, it looks to come from the 1950's if it originated on this planet.
Oh FFS does google not exist where you are from or are you just an idiot?


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

I had the same problem with the T110E4, T110E3 and the AMX 50 Foch or whatever that is.
T110E1,E2,E3,E4, and E5 were all designs by Chrysler in the mid-50s. All legitimate designs with blueprints, mock-ups, and peer reviewed sources. Learn how to use google before making a wall of text to show how little you know.
And again are you stupid or do you legitimately NOT have access to google?


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

Now, I'm cool with the new vehicles, I think it would be really neat to be fighting with the Cold War's best vehicles; to see how those battles would really turn out if the Soviets and Americans ever generated a Hot War like what almost happend after the Bay of Pigs incident. The French vehicles, though they never really saw combat provide more flavor and variety to the game than just American and Russian standoffs. However, the only thing that I ask is that my vehicle is from the same era.
Posted Image



View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

Hence my proposal.
So after long bouts of showing how little you know and how much you like to assume without doing research, let's see how you butcher this up....


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

Wargaming should introduce a new German teir 10 heavy, the leopard 1
Posted Image
Sweet freaking Jesus is that the dumbest thing I have read in awhile. With the damn plethora of information flooding the forum about the Leopard 1 (your truly being one of the contributors) you would think, YOU WOULD THINK, that if one was making a thread about this they would have done a little bit of research. BUT NO! Because I live in a world inhabited by monkey brained butt whistlers no one can be asked to do the slightest bit of research to save THEIR LIVES.
The Leopard 1 was designed in a time when armor was considered obsolete.
The first prototypes had only 50mm of upper glacis armor max, the production version had 70mm of upper glacis armor.
The rest of the tank was armored just enough to defeat anti-personnel rounds and shrapnel (mostly). It did not see even a marginal armor upgrade until the Leopard 1A3, which came out in the 70s and featured advanced technology that bar it from the game.
The simple proposal of making THAT TANK a HEAVY TANK is beyond stupid. "Hey guys! What do you think about a Lorraine 40t as a tier X heavy!" "Herp dee derp!"

Oh god...oh god that statement alone bust a vein in my head...well let's go on....let's see what you got...

View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

-standard piecemeal crap copied from wikipedia that clearly indicate this is a small caliber and highly mobile fighting vehicle, AKA NOT A HEAVY TANK-


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

Now, to me this tank would be perfect for WOT, for openers it actaully existen in large numbers. On top of that it only has a 105mm gun not some uber canon of death like the 704 or, yes my E-100. Also its mobile and most importantly produced and used in the same time peroid as the new American, French and Soviet vehicles. The specail stablization system could be added as a unique charactersitic or left out for balancing purposes.

Still...still with the spelling mistakes? What are you...8? Again...you explain how this thing would be good...as a medium tank...
Oh yea and about gun stabilization, no one could fire on the move for shit until the later 60s and 70s but we can do it just fine in game, why? Because it is a balancing characteristic. It will get it if it needs it.


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

I think this tank could easily be very balanced, I'm guessing it would opperate a lot like the T110E5 and I think it could be a lot of fun to play and most importantly, its from the "future tech" ages.
No...it would act like a faster Patton. Which is similar but not the same.
Also "future tech"? Oh ffs are we on about this?
Tank technology for most of the 50s and early 60s were still close to WW2 era. Reliability and ammunition was the real developments of the time and they were all analog. Given that WG limits tanks out of the game based on tech and not the retarded year system you nooblets seem to think they use, then it should be an easy given there that the vehicles they add are not "future tech". Oh god...aneurism...I need some booze....the stupid...the stupiddddddddddddd


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

If wargaming were to actually do this I think it should be introduced similar to the T110E5 was, where Maus and E-100 players have the choice to trade in their current vehicle for a leopard 1 or something like that.
I had to literally stop for a minute on that line.
All I can say is no and that it should be obvious but I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt.


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:

So, what do you guys think of my proposal?

questions,

comments,

concerns,
I think you need to learn how to do research is what I think.

Also, I am officially mind rotted now. Thanks
Posted Image

Edited by lostwingman, Jun 14 2012 - 22:38.


eat3reat3r #3 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 22:00

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http://forum.worldof...ing-eventually/

  • Q (Random name.):
    • Why aren't you giving Germans Leo-1? It'll look better as MT-10 than same but overupped E-50.
  • A (SerB):
    • We will give you your cardboard dream, don't worry. But later.

Edited by eat3reat3r, Jun 14 2012 - 22:00.


Skygunner #4 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 22:01

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From the Russian Q and A


Why aren't the Germans getting the Leo-1? It would have looked better at Tier 10 than the same E-50 but with parameters stretched out even further, IMO.

We'll give you your cardboard dream tank, don't you worry.
But later.




Don't think for a second though that it'll be anything remotely like a heavy.   Leopards were designed to operate on an entirely different battlefield.  They are highly mobile,  well armed, and that's about it.   The tank will play more like a French medium than any current german tank.   It doesn't take hits, but it dishes them out, a glass cannon, if you will.

Legiondude #5 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 22:03

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Alright, let's make it official then

The Leopard I is now part of the Drinking Game, because people aren't bothering to notice that Wargaming plans to add it as part of the 2nd German Medium line as a tier 10 with it's realistic armor levels(IE: It's as fragile as a Batchat, without the perks)

XxdoorcountyxX #6 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 22:29

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View PostSkygunner, on Jun 14 2012 - 22:01, said:





Don't think for a second though that it'll be anything remotely like a heavy.   Leopards were designed to operate on an entirely different battlefield.  They are highly mobile,  well armed, and that's about it.   The tank will play more like a French medium than any current german tank.   It doesn't take hits, but it dishes them out, a glass cannon, if you will.

Thats the point. Its a highly mobile tank with low armor designed to use terrain and tactics to its advantage and its gun was designed to have a high rate of fire and be very accurate at long ranges. The leopard 1 still has the lower glacie's weakspot, its upper hull and turret look pretty strong, but its side armor looks paper thin. I think if would be a lot like an IS8. A mdium in disguise if you will.

On top of that I think a lot of people forget that after the fall of Berlin in 1945, the german scientists were far from done designing vehicles. I mean most of the french tanks in WOT were designed by German scientists in France. So I hardly think that the German vehicles should stop at the end of the "German Empire" in 1944. The German Empire was still there in culture and technology in West Germany, It was just purged of all the radical facisits who wanted global dominiation. Therefore, I think failing to represent vehicles that the German Scientists designed in West Germany during the 50's and 60's is simply uncalled for

Sparky630 #7 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 22:34

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while i agree the german heavy line is a bit underpowered currently, i believe the leopard 1 is a bit of an overkill, and just plainly roflstomp any tank out there

lostwingman #8 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 22:42

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View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 22:29, said:

Thats the point. Its a highly mobile tank with low armor designed to use terrain and tactics to its advantage and its gun was designed to have a high rate of fire and be very accurate at long ranges. The leopard 1 still has the lower glacie's weakspot, its upper hull and turret look pretty strong, but its side armor looks paper thin. I think if would be a lot like an IS8. A mdium in disguise if you will.
The number of ways you are wrong in that post is soo mind boggling I might have to drink some rubbing alcohol to forget it.


View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 22:29, said:

On top of that I think a lot of people forget that after the fall of Berlin in 1945, the german scientists were far from done designing vehicles. I mean most of the french tanks in WOT were designed by German scientists in France. So I hardly think that the German vehicles should stop at the end of the "German Empire" in 1944. The German Empire was still there in culture and technology in West Germany, It was just purged of all the radical facisits who wanted global dominiation. Therefore, I think failing to represent vehicles that the German Scientists designed in West Germany during the 50's and 60's is simply uncalled for
Hey OP....WHY SO WRONG?
They brought the Germans in to help with the engine they were license building from them. THAT IS IT.
In fact, they knew soo little about the rational behind German design choices they usually just decided to keep features (such as interleaved road wheels) without knowing why.
So please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeease stop embarrassing yourself and the rest of the German tank subforum.
This kind of posting is what gives this subforum the reputation it has...

Horrorsh0w #9 Posted Jun 14 2012 - 23:14

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Leopard 1 will be and should be a medium.

/thread

XxdoorcountyxX #10 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 00:49

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View Postlostwingman, on Jun 14 2012 - 22:42, said:

The number of ways you are wrong in that post is soo mind boggling I might have to drink some rubbing alcohol to forget it.



Hey OP....WHY SO WRONG?
They brought the Germans in to help with the engine they were license building from them. THAT IS IT.
In fact, they knew soo little about the rational behind German design choices they usually just decided to keep features (such as interleaved road wheels) without knowing why.
So please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeease stop embarrassing yourself and the rest of the German tank subforum.
This kind of posting is what gives this subforum the reputation it has...

I was just throwing out an idea that I had, I'm not complaining at all

If you don't like my information just say so, you don't need to scream at me like a twelve year old (thats what gives this subforum a bad reputation)

Edited by XxdoorcountyxX, Jun 15 2012 - 00:49.


lostwingman #11 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 01:08

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View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 15 2012 - 00:49, said:

If you don't like my information just say so, you don't need to scream at me like a twelve year old (thats what gives this subforum a bad reputation)
Ok first off, this is the exact kind of shit that pisses me off. Facts, data, history, and other such information is not a matter of opinion. What, you think I'm going to LOVE your information when it is patently and repetitively WRONG?

And I'm not screaming, you don't know screaming. This is a frustrated dismantling of forum stupidity. Don't get mad at me about my tone when your posting absolute crap and get called on it.

And no, what gives this subforum a bad rep is this garbage.
Apparently if you want to be a German subforum poster all you need to do is:
1. Never do any research but the bare minimum.
2. Never use search functions.
3. Never think through or articulate the logic in a coherent thought.
4. Complain about the time line.
5. Read one line someone says on the forum and take it as gospel that the "gurmans wuld hab dun it"

and now all we need is a rant about Russian bias and something about the Tiger killing T34s meaning it should slaughter T-43s and IS-2s and you'll be absolutely pro.

The fact is, what you put out is exactly what you should expect to get back. If you post worthless drivel expect to not get any courtesies back.

XxdoorcountyxX #12 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 01:55

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View Postlostwingman, on Jun 15 2012 - 01:08, said:



The fact is, what you put out is exactly what you should expect to get back. If you post worthless drivel expect to not get any courtesies back.

Your right, I should have spent more time checking my punctuation and arrangment. I'm sorry if they were not set up properly and made it confusing, my appologies. I'll try better next time. :Smile_great:

Skygunner #13 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 01:59

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Give it time, there are 3 confirmed german post war tanks.

Leopard 1
Leopard 1 prototype
Indien Panzer

They have also said there is enough material for 4 german TD lines, so there is a chance that we will see the Kanonenjadgpanzer,  a very small, lightly armoured yet very fast post war tank destroyer.  As a tank in one of those branches or possibly a premium

We may also see the Wiesel 1,  an airdrop tank, which would play a lot like the T2 Light tank with improved...everything, except for armour.


The last 2 are possibilities,  only the Leo's and Indien panzer are confirmed,  all of the tanks listed would be  higher than average performance,  lower than average armour for their tier.

lostwingman #14 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 02:59

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View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 15 2012 - 01:55, said:

Your right, I should have spent more time checking my punctuation and arrangment. I'm sorry if they were not set up properly and made it confusing, my appologies. I'll try better next time. :Smile_great:

I was talking about the facts and the information itself. I'll forgive a lot of bad grammar and spelling if it is based in reality. This was just a combination of too many bad things.

PzAbt505 #15 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 08:22

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Posted Image

MagusGerhardt #16 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 09:01

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As has already been stated, the Leopard 1 ( or prototype derivative thereof ) will be a future 2nd tier ten medium tank evolving from the currently mostly pointless VK3002DB line.

This is good, because right now the DB serves no purpose other than providing a link to both the Panther I and Tiger I from a single tank, though the research are sidegrades to other tier seven tanks rather than an upgrade to tier eight.

For all the reasons pointed out in previous threads and earlier posts in this thread the Leopard 1 would be less than useless as a heavy tank, it will not have the armor or HP to hold a position the way a Maus or even an E75 can.

I sense that you would just really like to drive a Leopard and have it in your garage.  Feel free to research the VK3002DB and prepare to research the India Panzer from it when the tree is expanded.  I would also recommend that you choose a fast medium tank with negligible armor and a good gun to begin training yourself on how the Big Leo will have to be driven as its characteristics (aside from the gun) will be nothing like other German tanks you have driven.

Duty_Remains #17 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 10:01

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View PostXxdoorcountyxX, on Jun 14 2012 - 21:51, said:


.....

If wargaming were to actually do this I think it should be introduced similar to the T110E5 was, where Maus and E-100 players have the choice to trade in their current vehicle for a leopard 1 or something like that.

.....

PS. I love my E-100, but as of 7.2 WOT has changed "chemisty". The old superheavies are being traded out for the newer more mobile heavy/"mediums". All I want is the Germans to be given the same oppertunity as everyone else and not be stuck in the "Stone Ages of 1944".

First the thing I have to say is...  I like my E-100 and unlike the IS-4 it can offer me something my T110E5 cannot.

Second thing I have to say is...  no super-heavies have been traded out of the game.  The only vehicle that's been removed to the best of my knowledge is T23 MEDIUM tank from the American tree.  Sure the T34 and T30 moved but they never qualified as "super-heavies" any ways.

Third and most important...  the Maus' and E-100's problems are primarily gun related, the chassis (the tank itself) remains viable in my opinion however their firepower is simply outclassed by the new 120mm & 122mm cannons.  A more sensible suggestion in my mind would be to give the Maus the Jagdtigers top 12,8 cm gun and increase the penetration (~260mm) on the 15cm.

What Wargaming really needs to do is find a way to buff its players IQs...

PortraitOfSanity #18 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 19:09

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Leopard 1 as a heavy? Wtf are you high?It's not even a question of year and technology, it's about game mechanics. Heavies soak damage in this game. That's their job. You can't soak damage in a leo 1.

kampfer91 #19 Posted Jun 15 2012 - 21:15

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Tell me the reason why i should drive a tank that have weak armor and its ammo rack is placed in its front armor ?
This is not World in conflict .

shdowhunt60 #20 Posted Jun 16 2012 - 02:54

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At first, I thought the OP was being satirical, and was making fun of the dilemma that German tanks have with the lower glacis, with a tank that has an ammo rack right on the lower glacis. Then I stopped laughing when I realized the OP was serious.