37 replies to this topic

[JE_Crazy]

on steppes, if you rush to cap you are in a "fishbowl". All anyone has to do is hit each tank in turn to reset the cap while the cappers try to hit the top of the non-cappers tanks and ricochet. Meanwhile no one is protecting your arty and their arty is pounding the hell out of you.

Use the lower tier tanks to cap. Use the higher tiers to defend the cappers by keeping the enemy back and it might work.

Surrounding the enemy and hitting them in a crossfire usually works much better.

[Evil_Monkey_Killer]

This tactic is also known as a " suicide rush" or a " lemming rush".  We should all try not to die in the first 5 minutes of a match.  The flag in these battles should be treated like the hill on mines which is to say deny the enemy but not necessary to control it.

[cbryant]

Robock, on Jul 08 2012 - 02:55, said:

I found no point rushing to cap. The first side to go park inside the cap circle will be left in the open and will be decimated.
Remember that Encounter have TWO objective. Kill-them-all is a very valid plan.
1) go toward spawn, kill all those who are also going to your spawn (you'll meet head on)
2) kill anyone still at spawn or near it
3) go to the cap circle and finish off the rest of the army.
And of course right from the beginning of the match send a few tank to defend the cap (not to cap it but just to shoot anyone inside the cap circle)

I'm glad someone else gets its. 'lets rush cap and die !!!'  never works ...

[archre]

Cap rush NEVER worked. My team did it yesterday. Lost
The problem is that while caping, the tanks are very vulnerable to arty.

[mcclada]

I've lost to a well designed cap rush...usually on Himmelsdorf where their heavies can patrol the surrounding streets while my team is half taking the hill and the other half....around somewhere....

But I agree with Steppes...I've cap rushed and found myself pounded into dust by peek-a-boo tactics.

[davewing]

Seldom does Cap win that battle, Kill All mostly does at least 80% of the time.

[rinying]

Walter_DJ_PON_3, on Jul 04 2012 - 20:17, said:

On the map "The Steppes"

On gamemode "Encounter"
NOBODY EVER FOLLOWS THIS PLAN:
Everybody rush to the base, cap and defend.
That's the only reason why it fails!
BECAUSE NOBODY LISTENS!
Most people go to base, and then the other half of players WANDER OFF into some RANDOM direction!
And people criticize me:
"Great plan..."
"Nice job, douchebag."
"Horrible plan, man."

GAIS. THE ONLY REASON WHY THE PLAN DOESNT WORK IS BECAUSE NOBODY FOLLOWS IT.
If you have the same problem with another map, plan, or gamemode post it in the comments.

....... i actually had the enemy team do this once, you want to know what happened? i picked them off with my t34, laughing at them as they tried to cap. some need to flank, others need to cap.

[shadistic]

It's actually the other way around from what the OP said.
Encounter Steppes is counter-intuitive, but if you pay attention, you'll understand it.

Cap-and-defend is an especially poor strategy on Steppes for several reasons.
-There's no cover. The only thing you can reliably get behind is the wrecks of friendly tanks (which there will be plenty of if you try this).
-The cap is right inside a half-circle ("fishbowl"). The other team can approach from any direction on that half-circle, and your team has to cover 180 degrees. Plus, they'll have the height advantage on you.
-It's right along the other team's trajectory, and it's close enough for arty to hit. Once you get there, they'll have you downrange of their guns.
-Capping is slow, and the other team will have the advantage of surprise.
-Abandoning the rocky west flank leaves your own arty wide open.
-Once a team reaches the cap, they stop advancing. This gives 3/4 of the map to the other team.
(These last 2 combined means that they'll soon be attacking you from both their spawn AND from your own spawn.)

Sure, sometimes it works, but that's only when the other team is so incompetent that you'd win either way.

The team that wins is the one that controls all the angles on the cap. That's why the battle between the spawns is important. In fact, it's the most important part. Control both spawn points, and you'll almost always go on to win. A good plan is to have a few tanks cover the base to prevent them mass-rushing it, and dedicate the rest to fighting to their spawn. Once you win that, the cap will still easily be low enough for you to catch and massacre them.

[Fireguard]

Cap rush on Encounter battles is scrub gameplay personified, with the exception of El-Halouf, where an early fast tank on cap is a good idea, due to the silly rock in the middle. On Himmelsdorf, the hill seems to be the focal, and deciding, point of the battle.

[Shaftronics]

Capping on encounter is great for pressuring the opfor, like in El Halluf and the infamous rock.

[BobLoblaw]

Seems like if your main force doesn't meet their main force, you lose.  Some will rush to the flag, while everyone else gets steamrolled, then the enemy main force basically surrounds/ducks in a barrel your capping people far before they get close to capturing.  And vice-versa.  Except El-Halluf, where it seems similar to the standard battle, minus the rock, which is mainly for annoyance anyway.

[shadistic]

Fireguard, on Jul 24 2012 - 02:56, said:

Cap rush on Encounter battles is scrub gameplay personified, with the exception of El-Halouf, where an early fast tank on cap is a good idea, due to the silly rock in the middle. On Himmelsdorf, the hill seems to be the focal, and deciding, point of the battle.

I don't think I've seen more than 1-2 Encounter battles on El Halluf where having a fast tank hide behind the rock at the start was the deciding factor. Certainly, it puts pressure on the opposing team, but if that scout's team is the better one, they'll push the other team out, and if the other team is the better one, they'll manage to kill the scout.

I'd say that Ruinberg is the exception.

[Gath69]

Fire_Horse, on Jul 04 2012 - 20:42, said:

yeah on the encounter maps 2/3 of the team rushes to their spawn point instead of the flag, I'm assuming to get easy kills from arty or afk idiots.

whenever the other team isn't equally stupid, we lose, badly.

during the countdown I've tried reminding them that their spawn has no value and that the objective is here *points*, but that usually just makes a bunch of brats look up my stats.

You're right those of us staying on the west flank are just mindless nubs hoping to get arty amd afk tanks at their spawn. Rly?  Wow.  I will say I was in a lower tier battle that we won by capping because the other team did not push to cap and their flankers that over ran us at spawn were too slow to get to cap and reset.  It was pretty stupid too because they had t-50s that could have done it.  This map like the other encounter maps is won on the flank not on the cap at least 75-80% of the time, period.  End of story. Cya later, bye-bye.

[Keifomofutu]

Fireguard, on Jul 24 2012 - 02:56, said:

Cap rush on Encounter battles is scrub gameplay personified, with the exception of El-Halouf, where an early fast tank on cap is a good idea, due to the silly rock in the middle. On Himmelsdorf, the hill seems to be the focal, and deciding, point of the battle.

encounter himmelsdorf is my favorite one.  There are a lot of viable things you can do.  If the enemy team masses hill you can quickly push 8 line killing their weakened defenses.  Then you clear their base are and hit their guys near cap from behind.  Course it will probably come down to their guys on hill vs you at the end.

[greydrake]

Exactly, the cap will only add 2 pts every 3 seconds for the 1st guy and the ereverse for anyone else who joins.  SO, if the whole team caps, you will add 3 pts every two seconds = over 1 min to cap IF no one gets hit. Therefore the fastest cap is two people in the circle and everyone else camping ambushes. It is always better to swarm to their spawn cuz even if they all go to cap... you have over a minute to light up the circle and let the arty rain.

[HalfTrack1981]

I've seen both scenarios work, and both fail miserably... all goes back to the team.  If they are working well together, are not campers, and are a bit aggressive, either one will work fairly often.  If no teamwork/fail team... the plan is meaningless.

That said, if cap rush is the call, the TDs, HTs & MTs gotta spread out on the hill side above cap in groups of 2 or 3.  Also really helps if arty can come to the cap valley, as they are defended along with cappers.  Works so much better if it isn't a total lemming rush, and 3-4 stay back to defend around the spawn... there is opportunity from both spawns to set up some really effective cross-fires.  I have seen this hold the enemy spawn rush off long enough, that by the time they defeat our spawn defense, cross the middle ground (usually while taking some fire), and then try to push through the cap defense...we've already won.

[greydrake]

Fireguard, on Jul 24 2012 - 02:56, said:

On Himmelsdorf, the hill seems to be the focal, and deciding, point of the battle.

And it is always best to send two tanks down along the 8 line to out flank the other side... so send the guys to meet with the tanks the enemy is sending.  At worst, you give the hill more time before having enemy at this backsides and the arty can get clear to set up for firing angles.

Edited by greydrake, Jul 27 2012 - 17:58.

[Gath69]

Had a T29 suggest this strategy this am, to which I said no.  Well the other team beat them to cap and almost won that way and they sent more south than we did north.  I go two kills and if our KV-5 driver had been decent and the pzIV not just hide behind a rock we would have one the flank.  Instead they almost capped had it to over 90 secs, but our team reset and killed them all.  It was an IS & T29 on our team, they took down their tiger and had a T29 & KT coming back that killed us.  One at under 100 hp the other just over 100 hp and our T29 was at 22 hp and the IS at 290 or so.  Neither of them get to cover behind the dead tanks in cap and neither got shots off before they died.  Fail strategy.