69 replies to this topic

[JohnGaltCobraCommander]

I was struggling through solo pubbies today when a "golden bullet", so to speak, dawned upon me.

Many issues of this game could be solved by widening the gain/loss rewards for tier 6+ tanks. Currently a good player on non-premium can be profitable up to about tier 8/9. Bad players start losing profitability at tier 6. Keeping both of these in mind, WG can just widen the spread for good play versus bad play. For example: If a player breaks even on a game under the current system, they would break even under the new system as well. This minimizes the impact on the average player who does relatively well in games. On the other hand, a game a player would normally lose 10,000 credits on (say tier 8) would lose somewhere around 50,000. While a good game that normally would profit 10,000 would now profit 50,000.

What would this do?

Deplete the amount of bots and AFKers.

Now it would not be profitable to "bot" as these players contribute little to the battle and would be slammed with costs of 50,000-100,000 credit losses each game.

Now this solution would also promote good play. Players who do poorly would take much more time to get to higher tiers while encouraging everyone to become better in order to maintain credits.

The end result would be some players getting better and some relegating most of their time to tier 5 in order to get credits to play a few high tier games.

[JackQueRudo]

That would not appeal to Americans, it's unconstitutional

[Sniper]

What if someone like me lost connection or disconnected? I dont want to lose 100k just because my internet randomly shut down.

[annhwi]

Tier 6's and 7's stuck in a Tier 10 match will absolutely regret breaking into T6/7... and it gives those same tier 9/10's every reason to swat the tier 6/7 instead of dueling the other tier 9/10.

[fire70]

looks like 1 bot didnt like ur suggestion. He might have auto neg on?

[cheesellama]

Jackquelegs, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:20, said:

That would not appeal to Americans, it's unconstitutional

I find it ironic that you said that because it's Independence Day.

[Rukab]

Really bad idea.

Try telling everyone they need to keep 1million credits just sitting around just in case they lose 10 in a row (as an example.)  They have this exact system in Diablo 3 for gear repair, it makes you break even on money vs what you collect but it feels punishing to the players.  You can lose a lot of money very quickly and need to step away at times when rng isn't on your side.  That has no place in this game as I can't choose to remake the game anytime I want.

[JackQueRudo]

cheesellama, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:24, said:

I find it ironic that you said that because it's Independence Day.

EQUALITY FOR ALL, PUBBIES OR NOT

[JohnGaltCobraCommander]

Sniper, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:24, said:

What if someone like me lost connection or disconnected? I dont want to lose 100k just because my internet randomly shut down.

It happens. I work while I play and AFK a lot. This cuts down on those who dont wish to pay for it.

[Mydragonsfly]

I like the thought, but yes like someone said earlier what if our net dropped out or our client crashed?

I could see this makeing good players better, and lousy players hopefully striving to become better so they can advance and get somewhere in the game.

It would really clean up these teams and we hopefully wouldnt have these 30 game loosing streaks like some of us have suffered with...

[VegasRon]

A significant portion of this game's player base is flat out bad. WG won't do anything to discourage them from playing.

It's funny you bring this up, just earlier today I was on El Halluuf and a type 59 driver on the other team said at the start, "Wrong tank, cya" and went AFK for the rest of the match. Turned out to be a pretty close game, he could have made the difference but instead, screwed his team and they lost.

Much like when idiots take low tier tanks into high tier platoons.

[SourKraut13]

Dumb pubbies are gonna be dumb, no matter what the cost.  If they wanted to learn the game, they would have by now. Unless there is a mandatory training to advance, they will never learn.

[rinying]

Sniper, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:24, said:

What if someone like me lost connection or disconnected? I dont want to lose 100k just because my internet randomly shut down.

you can make back the 100k simply by doing good.

[rustyshackelford3000]

That.........is just too much, if  your playing high tier tanks it can already be hard to make a lot of money, doubt t1 tanks would appreciate it either

[JohnGaltCobraCommander]

Rukab, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:27, said:

Really bad idea.

Try telling everyone they need to keep 1million credits just sitting around just in case they lose 10 in a row (as an example.)  They have this exact system in Diablo 3 for gear repair, it makes you break even on money vs what you collect but it feels punishing to the players.  You can lose a lot of money very quickly and need to step away at times when rng isn't on your side.  That has no place in this game as I can't choose to remake the game anytime I want.

Contrary to popular belief, you can make credits on a loss.

rustyshackelford3000, on Jul 05 2012 - 03:13, said:

That.........is just too much, if  your playing high tier tanks it can already be hard to make a lot of money, doubt t1 tanks would appreciate it either

You do not have a single high tier tank and your closest (a t29, quite possibly the most OP tier 7 heavy out currently) you do not do very well in anyways.

Edited by JohnGaltCobraCommander, Jul 05 2012 - 03:19.

[rtp099]

Good luck with trying to get this implemented. WG put much thought into the current economics within the game and I highly doubt they are going to rewrite it and pi$$ off a bunch of their player base.

[Blizzard36]

Sniper, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:24, said:

What if someone like me lost connection or disconnected? I dont want to lose 100k just because my internet randomly shut down.

This is an especially pertinent question given the currently crashhappy build of WoT. It would be aggravating enough to lose credits due to a crash/lost connection outside of your control, immensely more so if the crash was actually due to the game that then charges you extra for "your" failures.

The proposal would also cause anti-arty lynch mobs to prosper to seriously worrisome levels. It's rough enough getting an unlucky arty hit at the start of the match that pops you right now. (I've had this happen a couple times when I'm spotted but don't realize it or the arty risks a very low margin shot.) Switch that 30k credit loss to an 80k credit loss and you've brewed some insane levels of rage.

I applaud your attempt to find a new way to force the NA MM pool back to the bell curve it's intended to be, and even better you're attempting to punish infractions like leaching at the same time. But you're ignoring the actual problems with your fix. Most importantly, that going by regular tanks the NA server isn't painfully top heavy. It's the incredibly large percentage of premium tier 8s that make the problem so bad, and with those tanks being cash cows for Wargamming on the NA server I don't see them going away any time soon. Simply changing the matchmaker to fit the actual MM pool instead of the hoped for MM pool would be a much more effective solution.

As for the leachers, there's no getting rid of them. As long as there is any team share (and there should be to ensure that those people who just have a terribly unlucky match still get something for trying) there will be leachers. If you implemented your plan, there would STILL be leachers. They'd have to leach more, adding in some cycles of very low tier matches that are guaranteed to make a profit to counteract the credit losses, but they'd still get to the top eventually. If they're already not actually playing the game, making them not play the game more isn't going to inconvenience them.

[Rukab]

JohnGaltCobraCommander, on Jul 05 2012 - 03:18, said:

Contrary to popular belief, you can make credits on a loss.

  Non premium account: Tier 8 you can make money on a win, break even/make money on a loss.  Tier 9 you can make money on a win, lose money on a loss.  Tier 10 break even/ lose a bit on a win/make a bit on a win, and lose money on a loss.

This wouldn't effect me in the long run (mostly because I win more than I lose.)  In the short run you can go on a 20 game losing streak and literally not be able to play some tanks if you don't have the credits to cover those losing streaks.

This would also devalue premiums (both tanks and accounts) unless you were planning on jacking up all the credit costs of all the tanks/spg linearly to the cost/credit incomes to current tanks.  On napkin math that means that 6.1 mil tier X heavy would now cost 30.5 million.

[ageNtreachery]

JohnGaltCobraCommander, on Jul 05 2012 - 02:17, said:

Now this solution would also promote good play. Players who do poorly would take much more time to get to higher tiers while encouraging everyone to become better in order to maintain credits.

Not sure about good play but it would certainly promote camping and hiding in back corners of the map

[armoredteapot]

I think this is a bad idea, simply because there is a chance that an average player having a real bad day can be severely punished playing higher tiers.

I remember when i broke in to tier 8 and I simply had no extra cash to buy premium status. I almost quit the game because on a very bad losing streak i lost money or just broke even on my tier 7 (an IS with a 1k per round battle) and almost consistently lost creds on the near stock Tiger 2 and IS-3. Yes, I could grind for creds on lower tier tanks, but because they are new and I grinded for them for so long I just wanted to play my tier 8s, even just to get them out of stock status. I was very frustrated. Well, I got through that when I shook off my bad luck streak and played arty for creds. Now I got premium back and am happily chugging along the lines again.  

Now, imagine that hapenning at tier 7, or if the player really strikes out - tier 6 (as you sugggested the losses should start), losing so much credits especially when your grinding to the "popular" tanks, like the Tiger and the IS, might get a lot of "average" players to quit! Some say, "they suck anyway let them quit", and I think that is just plain incorrect thinking. You think matchmaking is bad now? Try the SEA servers during off-peak. The low number of players makes for horrible, very horrible, matchups, and no one wants that.

We, like WG, should care that about maintaining the player base. Yes, even the low skill ones, even the douchebags that go afk, even ones with shaky internet connections. Some of these people will support this "free-to-play" experience (via game purchases and premium accounts now or in the future), some can become better players in the future - maybe even better than us, and as sucky as it is, some just fill the servers just enough so that all of us can get better MM. The perceived benefits of such a punishing system are too small compared to the probable loss of players at the middle tiers.

I believe MM can be fixed, maybe by making some MM spreads smaller and locking weaker tanks to lower tier matches. WG should get to tweaking the MM more ASAP. The afk'ers though, that we will just have to deal with (because we can't change what stupid people will do, and we also can't control other people's computers or internet connections) by reporting them, or simply trying to make up for the loss of their tank. The system can be improved, but having players punished so badly for having low skill, a bad connection, a crashing game, or simply a very unlucky day, I believe, is not the way.