Jump to content


Encounter battles: a hypothesis

Encounter battles capping winning losing

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
52 replies to this topic

warrends #1 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:03

    Major

  • Council of Armored Forces
  • 15800 battles
  • 2,789
  • [SNRK] SNRK
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011
So I have a hypothesis about Encounter battles. Just to be clear, for those who haven't yet figured out what an Encounter battle is:

Teams spawn at opposite sides of a map. There is a single base/flag (and it is white). To win, you must either (or both):
1) Capture the flag, and/or
2) Kill all of the red guys

So after playing many an Encounter battle, here's my hypothesis:

The team that tries to cap too quickly, say within the first 3-4 minutes, will lose the vast majority of the time.

I don't know for sure that it is true, but I just got out of yet another Encounter battle in my Patton in Murovanka. The other team tried to cap, had 3-4 tanks by the flag within 2 minutes. I spotted them easily and we popped them quickly, and then won handily.

This may not be true of all Encounter maps, but for those in which the base is not well-covered, it definitely appears to be so. Why? I think it's because in the frenzy to get to the base and begin to cap quickly, those few tanks in the base are NOT being supported by the rest of their team, and so they are killed pretty easily, thereby gimping their own team within the first few minutes. This is exactly what just happened in the battle I was in. It all goes back to teamwork, or in this case, a severe lack of teamwork.

Some maps provide better cover: Siegfried Line and Ensk, for instance, have bunches of buildings to cover the frenzied cappers. But the problem remains: They get there too soon, they MUST wait for a minute and a half or so for the clock to run down for them to win (all the while avoiding getting shot at all and causing a reset), and meanwhile the other team makes their casual way to the cap to off the cappers, which is usually pretty easy.

This thought actually comes from one of my clan's fellow Deputy Commanders (here's to you Sittingduck), who also happens to be one of our toppest (my 8 year old son's word) Field Commanders and strategists. He mentioned this casually the other day durign one of our clan Company battles (Encounter in Ensk) and it stuck in my head. He said that he prefers it when the opposing team tries to cap first.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Even before this, long, long ago, not having a death wish, I have NEVER raced to cap at the beginning of any battle, because the siren goes off and even if you are not yet spotted, they just know that you are there.

flamino_j #2 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:09

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7212 battles
  • 340
  • Member since:
    06-18-2011
That makes sense completely, thanks Warrends. I actually had noticed that myself. Oh, and I agree, Duck is out "toppest" feild commander out there. :Smile_great:

destroyer2020 #3 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:13

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 6604 battles
  • 28
  • Member since:
    08-05-2011
i agree with that and have also noticed that if the other team tries to cap quickly they normally lose.

LoooSeR78V #4 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:14

    Major

  • Players
  • 21 battles
  • 5,110
  • [CMFRT] CMFRT
  • Member since:
    04-03-2011
Yes, first thing that team should do is clear area around base.

I think that it's better to kill all enemy tanks, than trying to cap.

TxSteppeWolf #5 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:15

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 11060 battles
  • 462
  • Member since:
    10-06-2011
Here is the catch, for ENSK it matters to have many tanks going for flag. If majority of friendly tanks go to fight in open field, there is no enough time due railroad blocking even if you destroy all opposite side in open field. When the capping team has enough power in base, fast tanks who can reach there got killed, while the slow ones are not able to reach. For Ensk at least 5-6 tanks need to go base and defend but not cap too early.

warrends #6 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:16

    Major

  • Council of Armored Forces
  • 15800 battles
  • 2,789
  • [SNRK] SNRK
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011
OK ... having started this thread, I may have to recant, at least on some maps. Just had another Encounter battle, this time in my Chaffee in Steppes. In an unusual fashion, some of my team actually went toward the flag instead of EVERYONE heading to the other team's spawn area. We capped quickly, and it worked.

But there was a difference: a T20 and I were first in. And we stayed hidden behind the hill. Some of our much larger brethren, IS-8s and such, actually left the cap to kill the nearby red guys and keep us unharmed.

So it did work, but the difference was teamwork and situational awareness --- These other players knew that THEY had to take some shells to win the game for us. THAT is how you win battles.

warrends #7 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:18

    Major

  • Council of Armored Forces
  • 15800 battles
  • 2,789
  • [SNRK] SNRK
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011

View PostTxSteppeWolf, on Jul 08 2012 - 22:15, said:

Here is the catch, for ENSK it matters to have many tanks going for flag. If majority of friendly tanks go to fight in open field, there is no enough time due railroad blocking even if you destroy all opposite side in open field. When the capping team has enough power in base, fast tanks who can reach there got killed, while the slow ones are not able to reach. For Ensk at least 5-6 tanks need to go base and defend but not cap too early.

You are exactly right. All maps are different, and I have found myself saying "OH HELL!!" as I was in the field and had to do a complete end-around just to get to the cap area because of all of the railroad cars. I have since become very careful about this in Ensk.

Nick_the_Tank_Driver #8 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:18

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 4030 battles
  • 407
  • Member since:
    03-16-2012
Yeah, the only time lemming-ing the cap worked for my team was on ruinberg when 70% of the other team went to "flank" us and ended up camping on the entrances to every path into the city while I hid behind a building. Other than that, the "cap" is essentially useless in encounter.

yarl5000 #9 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:20

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 6548 battles
  • 977
  • [VPG-S] VPG-S
  • Member since:
    03-15-2011
I generally will get close to cap and sit and wait for them to come in, I get to spot them, then shoot them.

Generally though it depends on the team, like we had one team where I was joking just going to go straight for their spawn to maybe get an arty or two but on the way there I find most of their team but luckily most of my team was backing me up and we dropped them and kept on rolling while rest of team kept them from capping in the base and we just ran them over

AncalagonBlack #10 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:20

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 2672 battles
  • 470
  • Member since:
    01-30-2012
Rushing flag can work.

Example

Enough said. :Smile-izmena:

Melkarid #11 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:23

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 9230 battles
  • 102
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Going for the cap at the start of an Encounter is just asking to get flanked from your spawn and the enemy's spawn.

Vaneimort #12 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:23

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 11156 battles
  • 300
  • Member since:
    06-26-2011

View Postwarrends, on Jul 08 2012 - 22:16, said:



So it did work, but the difference was teamwork and situational awareness --- These other players knew that THEY had to take some shells to win the game for us. THAT is how you win battles.

here it is the guide to win any match!

ToothDecay #13 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:26

    Major

  • Players
  • 20414 battles
  • 4,165
  • Member since:
    06-29-2011

View Postwarrends, on Jul 08 2012 - 22:03, said:

So I have a hypothesis about Encounter battles. Just to be clear, for those who haven't yet figured out what an Encounter battle is:

Teams spawn at opposite sides of a map. There is a single base/flag (and it is white). To win, you must either (or both):
1) Capture the flag, and/or
2) Kill all of the red guys

So after playing many an Encounter battle, here's my hypothesis:

The team that tries to cap too quickly, say within the first 3-4 minutes, will lose the vast majority of the time.

.

This thought actually comes from one of my clan's fellow Deputy Commanders (here's to you Sittingduck), who also happens to be one of our toppest (my 8 year old son's word) Field Commanders and strategists. He mentioned this casually the other day durign one of our clan Company battles (Encounter in Ensk) and it stuck in my head. He said that he prefers it when the opposing team tries to cap first.

.



Toppest......lol.....love it.

RRR3 #14 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:30

    Major

  • Players
  • 10305 battles
  • 2,727
  • [SPCTR] SPCTR
  • Member since:
    02-17-2012
Excellent point

conman5525 #15 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:31

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 15487 battles
  • 463
  • Member since:
    10-28-2011
The tanks that move into the cap area are affectively turned into teathered goats for the opposing force's arty and surrounding flankers. In general, the cappers can be easily isolated and destroyed especially if the opfor sends an effective flanking force to keep the bulk of the opponents busy.

Securing the area, then capping tends to be more effective.

DBrimstone #16 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:39

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Testers
  • 10258 battles
  • 597
  • Member since:
    12-31-2010
Capping it takes too long to be a valid strategy. I have no sense of urgency when the siren goes off. If the cap went normal speed or even a little faster it'd make the rush to the cap strategy more viable. Whoever swings through the others spawn almost always wins no matter how many you have on the cap... The closest I got was in my m26 with a bunch of heavies that all got on the cap and we had it at 98 when they all get shot up and reset the entire cap

AncalagonBlack #17 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:44

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 2672 battles
  • 470
  • Member since:
    01-30-2012

View Postconman5525, on Jul 08 2012 - 22:31, said:

The tanks that move into the cap area are affectively turned into teathered goats for the opposing force's arty and surrounding flankers. In general, the cappers can be easily isolated and destroyed especially if the opfor sends an effective flanking force to keep the bulk of the opponents busy.

Securing the area, then capping tends to be more effective.

Somewhat agree.

The goal of pushing cap (illustrated in my link) is to get the enemy team to react, rather than having your own team react to the enemy. That usually confers a greater advantage and allows battles to be fought on your terms. Or, if the enemy refuses to directly acknowledge the capping and instead tries to flank, quite often it takes too long. More so in the bigger maps, where being in the right place at the right time has a larger importance.

Chamberland #18 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 22:56

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 10329 battles
  • 810
  • [DEMII] DEMII
  • Member since:
    03-01-2011
I have noticed that too. There are some exceptions to this rule as always. Say everyone but 4-5 tanks tries to kill everyone before capping. Then is the time to have you to make a judgement on whether or not to cap now. If you can tell that the majority of the opposing team is fighting somewhere else you cap like hell.

Damonvile #19 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 23:08

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 10518 battles
  • 3,376
  • Member since:
    07-09-2010
Going all one direction will almost always fail on most maps. Assault probably has the highest chance of this working.

The problem with rushing the flag in an encounter is it now puts you on the defensive. With a few arty in the game trying to defend a small area when they know where you are is suicide. Add to that giving up all of the map and you own arty and your only hope is to get lucky and cap before they kill you. You probably wont be able to fight to a win.

Those battles happen but I wouldn't say they're something you should go into a battle planing to do.

Jagdfan #20 Posted Jul 08 2012 - 23:18

    Major

  • Players
  • 15788 battles
  • 2,197
  • [SM0KE] SM0KE
  • Member since:
    06-03-2011

View Postwarrends, on Jul 08 2012 - 22:03, said:

So I have a hypothesis about Encounter battles. Just to be clear, for those who haven't yet figured out what an Encounter battle is:

The team that tries to cap too quickly, say within the first 3-4 minutes, will lose the vast majority of the time.


Please: quiet, they might hear you.  Absolutely true most of the time imo.  Only seen the first team to start capping win 4 times - twice on Ensk and once each on Murovanka and Prokharovka Steppes.  Each time the cappers got great support from others that set up a crossfire to hit the enemies trying to stop it.

Edited by Jagdfan, Jul 08 2012 - 23:22.