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T-28 Historical Inaccuracy/Controversy ?

T-28 Russian Meds historical inaccuracy change

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ViktorTsoi #1 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:22

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Hello Fellow Tankers,

I would like to get this started by saying the WoT Team claims that they value Historical Accuracy ,and for the most part this is true ,this is why i would like to point out some problems with the Ruski T-28 Teir IV Med.

First Point-Weight,In the game the tank weights around 16t with a load limit of 32t ,in reality the tank LIGHTEST variant topped out at 25t and the heaviest at 32t.

Second Point-Speed ,In the game this tank has a speed of 45km/h wich it reaches way to quickly for its size, in reality this speed was 27km/h and off road this speed could drop to as low as 12km/h yet in the game this behemoth flys around the map like it has nitrous!!!

Third Point-Health , I dont know what dictates how much health a tank should have but im pretty sure for a tank with a crew of 6 and a weight of 25-32t it sohuld be much higher than 350HP

Fourth Point(may not be valid depending on what variant your talking about)-but in the game the tank has 20-30mm of armour well in reality this tank had frontal plates of 50-80mm side and rear plates of 30-40mm ,the turret being the same 80/40/40, so in my mind thi tank is very under-armoured in the game.

Last Point-Gun , in the game it is a choice of 57-76-85mm guns(although the latter will be taken out) most players use the 57mmZis-4  but as far as im aware this gun was never put on the tank not even a prototype!As for the F-32 76mm gun it only does 110 avg. damage but in reality it fires 14lb shells with a muzzle velocity of 2000ft/s, it can penetrate 75mm of armour at 1km, in the game this gun is no where as good as real life.

For my conclusion,In the game this tank flys around the battlefield defying physics with a imaginary gun swooping down unholy terror on enemies while having paper thin armor-Reality: SLOW , ARMOURED ,BREAK-THROUGH tank desgined for driving into the enemy head on and f-ing shit up with a rapid firing 76mm cannon ,with semi-sloped frontal armor.


So if you this my points are great please tell me why , if you think what i wrote is shit also please comment and tell me why and i leave you with this ,so that you dont think i pulled this out of my ass here is a link that you can verify this information yourself

http://www.wwiivehic...medium/t-28.asp

Советские танки самые лучшие, Цой жив  :Smile-izmena:


Have A Great Day Everybody,Happy Hunting

alexsamson #2 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:24

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this is an arcade game remember, not a true sim, so not everything is going to be perfect, the tanks have to be fast enough to be bearable and such. So don't judge it too hard


Also, remove that red text, it is reserved for mods

iPancakes #3 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:30

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you should talk to T95...
Which is taller than the Jagdtiger IRL

and oh... the T95's main armament is not the 155mm gun(and was never put in the tank too... It's the T30's gun)

Edited by iPancakes, Jul 15 2012 - 01:32.


lostwingman #4 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:31

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But the 20-30mm armored versions that we have in game DID weigh under 20 tons...I don't think you actually read your own research OP...

ViktorTsoi #5 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:34

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View Postlostwingman, on Jul 15 2012 - 01:31, said:

But the 20-30mm armored versions that we have in game DID weigh under 20 tons...I don't think you actually read your own research OP...

First off that was only the prototype every other tank weighed over 20t also if you wish to tell me im wrong please show me the article wich states your case.


Specifications
T-28 T-28 19322 T-28 19341 T-28 Model 19381, T-28 E, T-28 M T-28V7,
T-28A7 T-28M-17,
T-28B7 T-28M-27,
T-28C7Crew 63,4,5,6,7,8 61,2 61,2 61,2,8 67 67 67Physical Characteristics Weight 61,730 lb,
27.5 tons8, 28 tons3,4,6, 28.5 tons5,7
28,500 kg3 25.22, 27.5-28.5 tons2 32,000 kg1, 31.5 tons1 31 - 32 tons 31 tons7 31 tons7 32 tons1,7
32,513 kg1

alexsamson #6 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:39

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View PostViktorTsoi, on Jul 15 2012 - 01:34, said:

First off that was only the prototype every other tank weighed over 20t also if you wish to tell me im wrong please show me the article wich states your case.


Specifications
T-28 T-28 19322 T-28 19341 T-28 Model 19381, T-28 E, T-28 M T-28V7,
T-28A7 T-28M-17,
T-28B7 T-28M-27,
T-28C7Crew 63,4,5,6,7,8 61,2 61,2 61,2,8 67 67 67Physical Characteristics Weight 61,730 lb,
27.5 tons8, 28 tons3,4,6, 28.5 tons5,7
28,500 kg3 25.22, 27.5-28.5 tons2 32,000 kg1, 31.5 tons1 31 - 32 tons 31 tons7 31 tons7 32 tons1,7
32,513 kg1

They try to make it historical to a degree, but where histroy messes with their view of balance and they way the game is played, then its taken out

AtomikDynamo #7 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:40

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Good points.
And yah, I share some of the confusion over what exactly is accuracy in World of Tanks.

Some tank models in the game are very faithful to their real life prototypes,...yet some end up either wimpy, or too powerful.

An extreme example is the T-50.
While the Soviets did employ them initially, they were frought with failure and soon withdrawn, yet in the game they are 'Goliath' killers.

But since this is a game, and not just a sim, I'm content seeing some creativity as to what was really available in AFV's 70 years ago.

Alas, some of the proposed changes, like the emasculating of the T-28 are kinda hard to take.
I like using the 85mm F-30 gun and using the T-28 as a TD.

From a distance I can wipe out pretty much anything from a Tier 5 down,...with multiple hits of course.

But, this is a game,...
If this was meant to be a prototypical sim, we would'nt be seeing any 'Paper Panzers' or any other fictional vehicles.

So enjoy the ride while it lasts.

T0NKA #8 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:41

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The majority of the game is wildly inaccurate. I've been saying since beta that the only accurate thing about the game is the model designs, other than that nothing is right.

sharlin648 #9 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:47

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Welcome to WoT where reality is tossed out of the window at the drop of a hat.  The T-28 is not a contraversial tank, its actually rather unpopular unless its driven by those dedicated few who love it for its benifits. Yes its speed and manouverability are waaaaaay too high, but as has been said, this is an arcade game that pretends to be realistic.  With considerable emphasis on pretends.

strelkov16 #10 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:59

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most of your info is about the T-28e a heavier more armored version  and they did test an 85mm on the t-28 http://english.battl...8-tank-gun.html hell they even tested a 95mm "

The artillerymen completed their task for the KV-3 tank first. It is a fact that the design bureau of Plant No.92, under the supervision of

V. Grabin

, had worked out the design of the

F-42 107 mm Tank Cannon

in the fall of 1940, created on the base of the

F-39 95 mm Tank Cannon

. (This cannon had undergone successful testing in the T-28 tank turret in the summer of 1940)."

http://english.battl...v-9-kv-220.htmlhttp://english.battl...ld.ru/t-28.html as for the 57mm zis-4 it was on the T-34 in 1941 and the t-28 was serving up to 1943 so i don't see why they couldn't of had that

hoom #11 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 01:59

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Hmm, that is a big weight discrepancy, never saw that :Smile_confused:
It did always seem odd how fast it is for such a big tank.

I believe they tested the 57mm on a t28 post-Kursk looking to up-gun T34s but thats essentially the same rationale for it having the F-30.

ViktorTsoi #12 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 02:05

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View Poststrelkov16, on Jul 15 2012 - 01:59, said:

most of your info is about the T-28e a heavier more armored version  and they did test an 85mm on the t-28 http://english.battl...8-tank-gun.html hell they even tested a 95mm "

The artillerymen completed their task for the KV-3 tank first. It is a fact that the design bureau of Plant No.92, under the supervision of

V. Grabin

, had worked out the design of the

F-42 107 mm Tank Cannon

in the fall of 1940, created on the base of the

F-39 95 mm Tank Cannon

. (This cannon had undergone successful testing in the T-28 tank turret in the summer of 1940)."

http://english.battl...v-9-kv-220.html http://english.battl...ld.ru/t-28.html as for the 57mm zis-4 it was on the T-34 in 1941 and the t-28 was serving up to 1943 so i don't see why they couldn't of had that

Yea thanks man i really like what you wrote and thanks for the evidence, but the weight and speed issue is true for all the models not just the E model.
And I wonder why their taking out the 85mm gun they should be ADDING a new gun like the 95mm or something.

Thanks for your input :Smile_Default:

Killertomato #13 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 05:13

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View PostT0NKA, on Jul 15 2012 - 01:41, said:

The majority of the game is wildly inaccurate. I've been saying since beta that the only accurate thing about the game is the model designs, other than that nothing is right.

But those aren't really accurate either, at least regarding sizes. A Sherman was almost as tall as a King Tiger IRL but the KT has at least two or three feet on it in-game. Same with the T95 (though that is for gameplay reasons, the full-scale model couldn't fit down most of the roads).

ViktorTsoi #14 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 13:19

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View PostKillertomato, on Jul 15 2012 - 05:13, said:

But those aren't really accurate either, at least regarding sizes. A Sherman was almost as tall as a King Tiger IRL but the KT has at least two or three feet on it in-game. Same with the T95 (though that is for gameplay reasons, the full-scale model couldn't fit down most of the roads).


So this makes me wonder why are they claming to be historicaly accurate if the sizes are so wildly off ???

Maus123 #15 Posted Jul 15 2012 - 17:09

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Talk to the T-50, IRL it was a slow infantry tank.

edlewies #16 Posted Aug 01 2012 - 14:49

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go watch some videos of tanks being penetrated in real life, one or two pen shots and guys are jumping out like mad men. this is an arcade game not a sim.

Dominatus #17 Posted Aug 01 2012 - 15:08

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View PostViktorTsoi, on Jul 15 2012 - 02:05, said:

Yea thanks man i really like what you wrote and thanks for the evidence, but the weight and speed issue is true for all the models not just the E model.
And I wonder why their taking out the 85mm gun they should be ADDING a new gun like the 95mm or something.

Thanks for your input :Smile_Default:

Cause the 85mm on it is unbalanced. You're right about the weight though, that's odd.

viking_power #18 Posted Aug 01 2012 - 16:51

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You know they are not that hard to kill. Without the speed and the 57mm gun the tank would be worthless. They are kind of needed.

ViktorTsoi #19 Posted Aug 01 2012 - 18:01

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View Posthwj_chim, on Aug 01 2012 - 16:51, said:

You know they are not that hard to kill. Without the speed and the 57mm gun the tank would be worthless. They are kind of needed.

Then why not give them the armor health and gun they deserve but make them slow and un-mobile like they really were

viking_power #20 Posted Aug 02 2012 - 19:17

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View PostViktorTsoi, on Aug 01 2012 - 18:01, said:

Then why not give them the armor health and gun they deserve but make them slow and un-mobile like they really were

That would work as well :Smile_Default: