444 replies to this topic

[Arrowfoot]

I have long believed that this game has a very pro-Russian set up. I have now come to believe that while there is some pro-Russian belief in the set up, it is also VERY anti German. There are many ways I could show this but none show it better then the heavy tanks.

  Arrival- The first hint to this is the fact that the Germans are the last to get heavy tanks, some nations get them at tier 4 the rest get them at tier 5, the Germans don’t get the heavy tank till tier 7. This puts the others in their 3^rd or 4^th generations of heavy tanks.

   Facts vs. stats- Many of you have all of your stats ready to back up your point of view, but remember that “figures lie and liars figure”. What I am dealing with is the FACTS, they don’t change!
Hit points- It is a fact that the Tiger 1 has the most hit points then any other tier 7 heavy, and many of you will point that out to show that the Tiger is “OP”, when in fact it is not. Other facts will make that “stat” meaningless.

Timing- the KV-3 is the only tank on the tier 7 list built before the tiger, yet is was a one of a kind prototype that only ever mounted the 107 gun, not the widely diverse tank that is use here. All the other tier 7 heavies where built or drawn up after the Tiger was on the field and were done in response to the tiger as at the time no one had an answer to the Tiger. The IS is the only one ever to make service and came out a year after the tiger (1943) the AMX-4 was started in 1945 and its design was based on the Tiger II, they T-29 was a 1944 prototype also built to counter the Tiger. With these facts the Tiger 1 and KV-3 should be at least one tier in front of the others

.
Real power- The real power of a tank comes down to two things- amount of armor and damage from the gun. In the armor department the Tiger (who’s thick armor scared all) comes in 4^th or 5, only the 1945 AMX-4 has worse. In penetration of the lines top guns the Tiger does score 2^nd of 5, only the AMX-4 has better penetration, but in damage the Tigers top gun ranks dead last most guns doing 50%to 75% more damage. In spite of having higher penetration its weak armor means the others have an over match as their guns have a 70% to 112% over match Vs. the tigers armor.


The bottom line is the in spite of being the standard that all other heavy tanks would be judged by and the tank that struck fear in the hearts of all and had many countries in a mad dash to find an answer to it limps into our world too late and in time to face the tanks that where built as an answer to it.


The Tiger should either enter the war as a tier 6 (and there are plenty to fantasy tier 6 tanks that can fight it) or the other tier tanks on the tier 7 list should be moved up to tier 8.

Thanks for you time and let the hate mail begin just please answer me in FACTS not STATS as I have sad “figures lie and liars Figure”. Have a nice day.

[AncalagonBlack]

Armor is not as important when sniping the Red Team from 500m away. Nor is damage when sniping said Red Team from 500m away, before they can either:

A. See you
B. Reply in a meaningful fashion

You have over 300 games in the Tiger, yet you believe what you are writing?

[VladimirsRevenge]

I wish I had a dime for every time I've bounced a shell off a T34, but skewered an IS-3 for 900 damage on the very next shot.

[aznnoodle727]

Sorry...ONE nation gets them at T4, and it can't really do much other than bully lower tier tanks. Technically, the 3601 was meant to be a heavy tank; I have no idea why it's a medium. T1 Heavy and M6 are laughable. KV-1 is alright.

Have you tried angling your armor at all (a necessity for German tanks and all tanks in particular)? How about sniping? Most Tiger aces IRL got their kills from long ranges. Maybe you shouldn't engage people by yourself.

[Arrowfoot]

AncalagonBlack, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:06, said:

Armor is not as important when sniping the Red Team from 500m away. Nor is damage when sniping said Red Team from 500m away, before they can either:

A. See you
B. Reply in a meaningful fashion

You have over 300 games in the Tiger, yet you believe what you are writing?

I may have only 300 battles in the tiger in this game but over 7000 battles total. I was a tanker for 26 years, studied armor for years and was a teacher on armor tactics, tank ID as well as tank abilities. Oh yea and I ran an Army armor musseum. so yes i beleive what i say, and as usual people like you responed the insults rather then facts, have a nice day

[SHISHKABOB]

there's how the tanks compared in real life, and then there's how the tanks compare when we give them stats and use them in a fanciful arcade battle like the ones we find in WoT

the tanks may have characteristics *based* on real life, but the final numbers come down to what the devs put in the game

for example, the King Tiger in real life apparently had a 100mm lower frontal glacis plate, but in this game it is set at 120mm. This game is not a 100% accurate historical simulator. Things are changed in order to maintain balance. Please forget about when these tanks were built and why they were built, because what really matters are the stats and abilities that they have in World of Tanks (at least, in the context of balance within WoT).

Your paragraph on "real power" is the only one that really comes close to talking about relevant facts, but it still does not convince me because you only speak of two numbers which are NOT the only two important characteristics of a tank. Look at the Patton: it is considered to be one of the finest tier 9 mediums even though its armor is mediocre and its damage is around that of its peers. Its other stats are what makes it a good tank.

I think you should take a good hard look at every aspect of the Tiger H and compare those aspects to its peers. Make a pro and con list. Think about stuff like accuracy, horsepower per ton, turning rate, slopes, view range, etc. The Tiger H is definitely not overpowered compared to the other tier 7 heavy tanks, but I wouldn't say that it is too far behind any of them.

[Wind2008]

The tiger has better accuracy, aim time and pen than the IS and has similar speed. It is faster and more accurate than the T29 in trade for a little alpha damage and a lot of turret armor. The AMX is bad so I won't bother comparing it.

The tiger is a mobile medium/long range heavy tank and it is great at what it does. It's really only gotten better with the game's focus shifting towards speed and away from armor, the gun is great at everything except the alpha damage you're so focused on and I think you're forgetting that.

[SolidBeer]

The Tiger I fought T-34s and M4s during the war...why is it that a Tiger here very rarely sees those tanks i game. I agree with OP. +1
But if it would be moved back a tier...get rid of the sniper gun ad just give it the short 88...the real Tiger 1 gun.

[SHISHKABOB]

SolidBeer, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:30, said:

The Tiger I fought T-34s and M4s during the war...why is it that a Tiger here very rarely sees those tanks i game. I agree with OP. +1
But if it would be moved back a tier...get rid of the sniper gun ad just give it the short 88...the real Tiger 1 gun.

it doesn't see those tanks often because those tanks are tier 5. The game needs to be balanced for the enjoyment of everyone that's playing, not for Tiger players to stomp on Shermans.

[AncalagonBlack]

Arrowfoot, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:15, said:

I may have only 300 battles in the tiger in this game but over 7000 battles total. I was a tanker for 26 years, studied armor for years and was a teacher on armor tactics, tank ID as well as tank abilities. Oh yea and I ran an Army armor musseum. so yes i beleive what i say, and as usual people like you responed the insults rather then facts, have a nice day

I didn't insult you. I merely refuted what you stated with my opinion in two simple statements, the latter statement being further reinforced by "A/B" list. Try and relax.

This is an arcade game, not a mil sim. While its nice about studying armor and being a tanker for xx years, it doesn't have any bearing on the game.

[Arrowfoot]

aznnoodle727, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:14, said:

Sorry...ONE nation gets them at T4, and it can't really do much other than bully lower tier tanks. Technically, the 3601 was meant to be a heavy tank; I have no idea why it's a medium. T1 Heavy and M6 are laughable. KV-1 is alright.

Have you tried angling your armor at all (a necessity for German tanks and all tanks in particular)? How about sniping? Most Tiger aces IRL got their kills from long ranges. Maybe you shouldn't engage people by yourself.

Wow another expert, yes the tigers were well known for their long range kills, the could easily kill most tanks from 1500mm....Oh yea but the maps in this game are too small for that and all gunsight are limited to a maxe veiw of 500m and 500m is also the guns max range so when shooting at a target 500m away the gun is as effective as a real life gun at closer to 2000m. thanks for your insightful input!

[lord_havoc01]

I actually agree. I played the Tiger (P) for quite sometime, and while it's not the Tiger per-say, its guns are exactly the game. Alot of the time I would fire and find myself doing maybe 100-150hp to tanks of similar tier. When the KV-3 got its rise in tier I groaned again cos I was already having issues with the blighter. As top of the Tier I new the Tiger was a monster to be feared, but against similar tier tanks I really needed to shape up and work for the win. Yes it does scrap in last of the tier 7 tanks, but like SHISHKABOB said, real life and this game aren't entirely connected. The Tiger is much faster then the KV-3, hull armoured better then the T29(and more accurate) and is a sniper compared to the IS which is a brawler.

[aznnoodle727]

I've always wondered how some people boast about their time in the armed forces, their first hand knowledge about tanks, and their experience in driving one, and then undergo regression when under fire. As much as I respect and honor the armed forces, if you use that fact to reinforce your argument or to somehow prove that your argument is better, then my respect for you has become more questionable.

[SHISHKABOB]

aznnoodle727, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:37, said:

I've always wondered how some people boast about their time in the armed forces, their first hand knowledge about tanks, and their experience in driving one, and then undergo regression when under fire. As much as I respect and honor the armed forces, if you use that fact to reinforce your argument or to somehow prove that your argument is better, then my respect for you has become more questionable.

this discussion is about the merits of the Tiger, not about the OP's life story

[Arrowfoot]

SHISHKABOB, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:32, said:

it doesn't see those tanks often because those tanks are tier 5. The game needs to be balanced for the enjoyment of everyone that's playing, not for Tiger players to stomp on Shermans.

But its ok for the 1950s tanks of other nations to stump on the tigers and others. you have proved my piont thank you. It is ok for the other nations to overpower the Germans, but not ok for a German tanks to over power others in the same tier.

[AncalagonBlack]

Arrowfoot, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:35, said:

-snip- 500m is also the guns max range -snip-

I'm fairly sure that shells* in this game travel about 700m before being rendered useless. This is merely what I've heard.

*Save for SPG's.

[SHISHKABOB]

Arrowfoot, on Jul 15 2012 - 16:40, said:

But its ok for the 1950s tanks of other nations to stump on the tigers and others. you have proved my piont thank you. It is ok for the other nations to overpower the Germans, but not ok for a German tanks to over power others in the same tier.

no, what I said was that the sherman and T-34 are *tier 5*, whereas the Tiger is *tier 7*

it's an imbalance within the game. The devs could very easily change the numbers to make the Sherman a tier 6 and the Tiger a tier 6 and then they'd be balanced with each other. The numbers *in the game* are what matters, not what happened in real life.

[Arrowfoot]

as expected most of you have chosen to site game play as your only deffence of this system. and my guess would be most of you dont play Tigers much and enjoy killing them with easy. I KNOW ITS A GAME and must be ballanced, my piont is that it is not, at least as far as the germans go. Guns like the 90mm 107mm and 122mm were all introdced to conter the Tiger yet all nations get them BEFORE the tiger comes out. There needs to be a way to kill all tanks in the game, but at the same time the gegmans need to have balance on there side as well.

[Moonrider]

http://conspiracylol.../conspiracy.jpg

[Gryphon_]

The OP makes a reasonable argument that the TIger is in the wrong tier. However, this is just part of a larger problem - how do we know that any tank is in the right tier? When we review the characterisitics of any tank and compare things like armor and gun, we are trying to subjectively weight each of those characteristics to arrive at a conclusion, but as we can see from the discussion, opinions vary on what is important.

I suggest that the ultimate test of whether a tank is in the right tier is the server stats. Does anyone know how the Tiger stands in the NA stats for tier 7?