Jump to content


Super Pershing's final stats?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
16 replies to this topic

HuntMaster82 #1 Posted Jul 27 2012 - 07:46

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 1161 battles
  • 28
  • Member since:
    07-12-2011
Does anyone know what the final stats for the SP in 7.5 are?

Thompson153 #2 Posted Jul 27 2012 - 13:42

    Major

  • Players
  • 16804 battles
  • 4,809
  • Member since:
    06-16-2011
Nope. You can take a look at the RU server though, they have 7.5 installed.

HOTA_CHATON #3 Posted Jul 28 2012 - 05:02

    Major

  • Players
  • 10232 battles
  • 9,342
  • [-BAT-] -BAT-
  • Member since:
    09-28-2011
The so-called Super Pershing is really a grade A dud.

TheRonmasteh #4 Posted Jul 28 2012 - 06:40

    Major

  • Players
  • 31245 battles
  • 4,757
  • [CAZA] CAZA
  • Member since:
    04-07-2011
Posted Image

Stats from 26/7, first day of official 7.5 Patch on RU. (Note: Remember the SP has original Persh armor + the additional frontal plates. The plates are NOT listed)

If you want more info, you can google translate this page: http://forum.worldof...-superpershing/ (At the end, there is a table. Dont understand it a lot, but I guess last numbers on the last right row are the credit earning of that match)

Edited by TheRonmasteh, Jul 28 2012 - 06:42.


Gaslight #5 Posted Jul 28 2012 - 07:48

    Private

  • Beta Testers
  • 1829 battles
  • 5
  • Member since:
    12-08-2010

View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Jul 28 2012 - 05:02, said:

The so-called Super Pershing is really a grade A dud.

If you're expecting it to play like a traditional medium, maybe.  You need to play it like a "pocket heavy."  It is really a higher-tier analogue to the Sherman Jumbo in terms of characteristics and role.  Accompany your team's heavies, provide support, fill gaps in the line when needed.  Protect your flanks and do not overextend.  The sides and rear are vulnerable and it lacks the speed to get out of trouble, but you can absorb a ridiculous amount of punishment as long as you keep your front facing the enemy.  The gun is not great (lower pen than the vanilla Pershing's top gun when the Super Pershing was built specifically to carry a more powerful gun is very hard to swallow), but it is adequate - you can hurt anything in your own tier or lower if you're a decent shot.  Remember that like the KV-5 and Type 59, it has special matchmaking considerations - it will never go up against tier 10s.

In one of my first games with it on the test server last night, I found myself alone defending the railroad tracks/swamp side of Live Oaks against an enemy force that included an SU-100, IS-6, IS-3, Easy 8, and a KV-1S, and possibly one more tank I don't remember.  As long as they tried to engage me in a standoff battle I totally held my own - claimed one kill, damaged all or almost all of the others, and took a good 8-10 front hits that did no HP damage whatsoever.  Finally they got frustrated and rushed me and I died when I got swarmed.  Of course not all games in the Super Pershing are that good, it definitely has flaws, and when you get flanked or get caught out of position without the speed to escape matches can be short and frustrating, but the potential for games like that one on Live Oaks was enough to sell me on the Super Pershing.

Edited by Gaslight, Jul 28 2012 - 07:50.


Psykmoe #6 Posted Jul 28 2012 - 11:13

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 14520 battles
  • 762
  • [STUG] STUG
  • Member since:
    03-11-2012
The only problem is that the Jumbo is 15+ tons lighter depending on turret while also having higher horsepower. If you want to compare them to heavies, the Jumbo maneuvers like an IS and the Super Pershing like a KV-4. It's a considerable difference, sadly. I hope it will be tolerable to play in the long run anyway.  With 66% win rate on my Jumbo after 200 games I know how to leverage its armor advantages so I hope it'll translate to the SP even if it'll take FAR longer to get anywhere just because of the crippled acceleration and hillclimbing.

Edited by Psykmoe, Jul 28 2012 - 11:15.


darkdog9 #7 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 00:38

    Captain

  • Players
  • 6516 battles
  • 1,302
  • Member since:
    07-09-2011
The tank seems like it will work well for frontal hits due to how the game treats spaced armor but the speed is more like a kv series (aka slow heavies)

Gaslight #8 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 02:09

    Private

  • Beta Testers
  • 1829 battles
  • 5
  • Member since:
    12-08-2010

View PostPsykmoe, on Jul 28 2012 - 11:13, said:

The only problem is that the Jumbo is 15+ tons lighter depending on turret while also having higher horsepower. If you want to compare them to heavies, the Jumbo maneuvers like an IS and the Super Pershing like a KV-4. It's a considerable difference, sadly. I hope it will be tolerable to play in the long run anyway.  With 66% win rate on my Jumbo after 200 games I know how to leverage its armor advantages so I hope it'll translate to the SP even if it'll take FAR longer to get anywhere just because of the crippled acceleration and hillclimbing.

You're right that the Jumbo is much more nimble.  However, the they're alike in that both of them are significantly slower and less maneuverable than most other mediums at their tier, and are not really suited to traditional medium tank flanking and striking maneuvers - that's the point I'm trying to make.

Eriance #9 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 08:59

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 11080 battles
  • 244
  • Member since:
    06-02-2011
From the videos I've seen, this thing moves like a KV-5. Which is strange for a medium. Given it's speed and maneuverability (or lack of), I'd say you'd need to plan your movements a lot more carefully as a wrong move would get your killed. But considering it costs only 7200 gold, it's a cheap tank to get for higher tier battles. The gun still pens more than a KV-5, so anything a KV-5 can shoot, so can the SP. I plan on getting one when 7.5 rolls out. :)

Thompson153 #10 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 14:15

    Major

  • Players
  • 16804 battles
  • 4,809
  • Member since:
    06-16-2011

View PostEriance, on Jul 29 2012 - 08:59, said:

From the videos I've seen, this thing moves like a KV-5. Which is strange for a medium. Given it's speed and maneuverability (or lack of), I'd say you'd need to plan your movements a lot more carefully as a wrong move would get your killed. But considering it costs only 7200 gold, it's a cheap tank to get for higher tier battles. The gun still pens more than a KV-5, so anything a KV-5 can shoot, so can the SP. I plan on getting one when 7.5 rolls out. :)
The only problem with the cost is that it will be the new KV-5, where players with 500 battles get ahold of $50 and buy it. However, it's going to be even worse than the KV-5, since it will take a TON of knowledge of the game and a large amount of skill (not saying the KV-5 does not take skill). With the SP, once you're flanked you're dead, meaning you have to play smart about it.

Pocktio #11 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 15:34

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 6695 battles
  • 451
  • [LIMBO] LIMBO
  • Member since:
    08-04-2010
Looks damn sexy, can't wait to add another no effort fun tank to mess around with for free xp tomfoolery.

Only ever had an m4 and t34 before so will be nice to try a sprightlier, but heavier US vehicle.

tankkiller1221 #12 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 19:47

    Private

  • Players
  • 1576 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    05-27-2012
the super pershing looks good

Whyan #13 Posted Jul 29 2012 - 20:55

    Captain

  • Beta Testers
  • 5995 battles
  • 1,872
  • Member since:
    01-26-2011

View PostThompson153, on Jul 29 2012 - 14:15, said:

The only problem with the cost is that it will be the new KV-5, where players with 500 battles get ahold of $50 and buy it. However, it's going to be even worse than the KV-5, since it will take a TON of knowledge of the game and a large amount of skill (not saying the KV-5 does not take skill). With the SP, once you're flanked you're dead, meaning you have to play smart about it.

Acutally, i would say the Kv-5 is an extremely difficult tank to drive, more so than the SP due to the presence of the R2D2 and the horribad gun. New players or average/poor players only have the grasp of simple angling and hull down tactics, whereas the Kv-5 requires you to hide the weakspots and engage appropriate angling maneuveurs to successfully abuse its armour.

However, the SP is difficult to drive soley because of the poor speed and lack of any armour on the sides and rear. This makes it a great tank for frontal engagements but a poor one for any tactic that relys on mobility or flanking. The other issue is the turret because only the mantlet has spaced armour which leaves the "cheeks" exposed which the driver must compensate for.

Edited by Whyan, Jul 29 2012 - 20:56.


TheRonmasteh #14 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 00:56

    Major

  • Players
  • 31245 battles
  • 4,757
  • [CAZA] CAZA
  • Member since:
    04-07-2011

View PostWhyan, on Jul 29 2012 - 20:55, said:

New players or average/poor players only have the grasp of simple angling and hull down tactics, whereas the Kv-5 requires you to hide the weakspots and engage appropriate angling maneuveurs to successfully abuse its armour.

Sorry bud, but you lost the argument in here.

This tank is not american by any means. It is almost like a French Heavy (Yes, you AMX 50B): Impressive hull, awful turret.

Yes, the turret has a huge spaced armor, but it a very small block that doesnt cover the whole turret (Spaced one only needs 180+ pen guns. The cheeks can be penned with 120-140, and the roof/"rocket launcher tubes" penned with 115). On top of that, the SP turret behind the mantlet is STOCK, that means that any pen after the spaced one is a 100% pen (The upgraded turret has spaced gun mantlet. Not the stock). The SP will die easy and much more faster when enemy focus on the turret instead of the hull.

Pahech #15 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 01:34

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 15144 battles
  • 2,831
  • [OTTER] OTTER
  • Member since:
    09-28-2010

View PostTheRonmasteh, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:56, said:

Sorry bud, but you lost the argument in here.

This tank is not american by any means. It is almost like a French Heavy (Yes, you AMX 50B): Impressive hull, awful turret.

Yes, the turret has a huge spaced armor, but it a very small block that doesnt cover the whole turret (Spaced one only needs 180+ pen guns. The cheeks can be penned with 120-140, and the roof/"rocket launcher tubes" penned with 115). On top of that, the SP turret behind the mantlet is STOCK, that means that any pen after the spaced one is a 100% pen (The upgraded turret has spaced gun mantlet. Not the stock). The SP will die easy and much more faster when enemy focus on the turret instead of the hull.

I think he's talking about the KV-5.

Thompson153 #16 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 02:09

    Major

  • Players
  • 16804 battles
  • 4,809
  • Member since:
    06-16-2011

View PostWhyan, on Jul 29 2012 - 20:55, said:

Acutally, i would say the Kv-5 is an extremely difficult tank to drive, more so than the SP due to the presence of the R2D2 and the horribad gun. New players or average/poor players only have the grasp of simple angling and hull down tactics, whereas the Kv-5 requires you to hide the weakspots and engage appropriate angling maneuveurs to successfully abuse its armour.

However, the SP is difficult to drive soley because of the poor speed and lack of any armour on the sides and rear. This makes it a great tank for frontal engagements but a poor one for any tactic that relys on mobility or flanking. The other issue is the turret because only the mantlet has spaced armour which leaves the "cheeks" exposed which the driver must compensate for.
However, what I was talking about is that the KV-5 has fairly good all around armor, that can bounce some large guns (have bounced off the rear with the 200mm pen gun on the JagdPanther). The weakspot in the center is by no means easy to hide, but think about the SP: its entire sides, rear, side of turret, rear of turret, AND even the front of the turret are all weakspots, not just this thing that can only be hit with some reliabilty 250m away. It will take far more skill to hide your entire side and rear and side of turret than it will to hide the R2D2. Granted, I have never played a KV-5, BUT, having seen them played and played the SP, I think the SP will be far harder to play for someone who only knows about rushing across the field in Malinovka (which may actually be a valid tactic in the SP, come to think of it... ;)

The "horribad" gun on the KV-5 has also seemed to move over to the SP, only with a few more pen but a massive nerf in damage and DPM. However, I think the aim time and accuracy make up for that I guess...

Oh well, I've kinda convinced myself to your side. New players with the KV-5 had the problem of the massive weakspot and bad gun, while the new players with the SP will have to deal with not knowing about always keeping their front to the enemy and a slightly better gun that still sucks. Only time will tell though whether the SP gets the reputation of being bought while mom is on the phone or whether it will actually be played by good or very good players for the most part.

Whyan #17 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 05:14

    Captain

  • Beta Testers
  • 5995 battles
  • 1,872
  • Member since:
    01-26-2011

View PostTheRonmasteh, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:56, said:

Sorry bud, but you lost the argument in here.

This tank is not american by any means. It is almost like a French Heavy (Yes, you AMX 50B): Impressive hull, awful turret.

Yes, the turret has a huge spaced armor, but it a very small block that doesnt cover the whole turret (Spaced one only needs 180+ pen guns. The cheeks can be penned with 120-140, and the roof/"rocket launcher tubes" penned with 115). On top of that, the SP turret behind the mantlet is STOCK, that means that any pen after the spaced one is a 100% pen (The upgraded turret has spaced gun mantlet. Not the stock). The SP will die easy and much more faster when enemy focus on the turret instead of the hull.
You're overexaggarating about the SP's turret weaknesses and underestimating exactly how thick that mantlet is.

First off, that "small" block covers roughly ~1/2  or ~3/5 of the frontal turret, overlapping the mantlet area is at least 220mm thick from what Wot armory says but i suspect the number is roughly ~250mm due to shape of the mantlet, and how it bounced ~200-225mm pen shells, while other times, absorbing ~225-240mm pen shells.
However, the mantlet+block is unpredictable in the protection levels because the actually mantlet behind it is rounded but it is safe to say that you should not be shooting there at all since it statistically is the second thickest area on the SP.

The cheeks have have to values:

1. The area where a piece of the protruding spaced armour overlaps the turret cheek is roughly 160mm thick, not too bad.

2. The area under, above and everything above the mantlet besides the tubes are roughly ~110-120mm thick. The tubes themselves have no hitboxes so shooting those does nothing but everything else is fair game. To be honest this is truly where the SP's turret weaknesses come from but it is easier to manage sometimes because people avoid shooting the turret at mid-range engagements for fear of hitting the mantlet.

I'm not doubting that people won't abuse the turret weakness at close range but than again the King Tigers, IS-3s and KV-4s gets their lower hull abused like no tomorrow. At least with the SP, the weakspot(s) are smaller and less prominate than most tanks of its tier.

View PostThompson153, on Jul 30 2012 - 02:09, said:

However, what I was talking about is that the KV-5 has fairly good all around armor, that can bounce some large guns (have bounced off the rear with the 200mm pen gun on the JagdPanther). The weakspot in the center is by no means easy to hide, but think about the SP: its entire sides, rear, side of turret, rear of turret, AND even the front of the turret are all weakspots, not just this thing that can only be hit with some reliabilty 250m away. It will take far more skill to hide your entire side and rear and side of turret than it will to hide the R2D2. Granted, I have never played a KV-5, BUT, having seen them played and played the SP, I think the SP will be far harder to play for someone who only knows about rushing across the field in Malinovka (which may actually be a valid tactic in the SP, come to think of it... ;)

The "horribad" gun on the KV-5 has also seemed to move over to the SP, only with a few more pen but a massive nerf in damage and DPM. However, I think the aim time and accuracy make up for that I guess...

Oh well, I've kinda convinced myself to your side. New players with the KV-5 had the problem of the massive weakspot and bad gun, while the new players with the SP will have to deal with not knowing about always keeping their front to the enemy and a slightly better gun that still sucks. Only time will tell though whether the SP gets the reputation of being bought while mom is on the phone or whether it will actually be played by good or very good players for the most part.

The thing is that the KV-5s "all-around" armour only works on lower pen guns (~170mm max) and the moment an enemy introduces a gun with 175mm+ pen, the main strength of the KV-5s armour, both frontal and side, is significantly reduced. In addition to the gun the biggest problem with the KV-5, and the reason why i rate it more difficult to drive than the SP, is trying find a place to hide the r2d2 without handicapping yourself in the process.

It is far easier to hull down than uh, "side down" and whats even worst is that the R2D2 is tall enough to peer over some cover.  

The SP's frontal armour however, is more reliable and capable of completely tanking up to 225mm pen shells, allowing it to be a viable candiate to engage heavier armed tanks. IMO, most of the frontal armour on the SP is at least equivalent or exceeds the King Tiger's frontal armour for overall effectiveness against both lower and higher tier tanks.

The only problem with the SP armour compared to the King Tiger's is that the SP isn't completely immune to lower pen guns due to the cheeks, however, the spots are small and somewhat difficult to hit if the SP driver moves a bit.

In short the KV-5, in my mind, is designed primary to attracted/distracted tanks and eliminate lighter armed tanks, essentially it is a support breakthrough tank.

The SP on the other hand, is pretty much a textbook heavy "tank" - slow, heavily armoured and ment to soak up shots. This fits the profile of a frontline support tank, basically a support brawling/meatshield tank depending on the on the MM.

Still both are still support tanks at heart because they do not have the required amount of firepower to take on most of the other T8 heavies in-game.

Edited by Whyan, Jul 30 2012 - 05:17.