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German Vehicle Lesson/Overview


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Alesia_Aisela #41 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 00:01

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Chieftain why do you tease us with the Pz II J and Hydro? :C  Maybe if there were plans to actually release them on the NA server : /

nui_vu #42 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 00:25

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i felt like i`ve watched this before... was this on one of the live events at E3?

The_Chiv #43 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 00:30

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I felt let down by this as he glossed over the td section...Not to mention was flawed with factual errors about the stug and no mention of the fiasco known as the Ferdinand.

Or the fact he didnt cover how sloped armor and german in game = no advantage, Where as sloped and russian= advantage.

cheesellama #44 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 00:51

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Thanks for the video! I missed the first 8 minutes and 51 seconds on live stream, so it was good to see what I missed. :Smile_great:

The_Chiv #45 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 00:51

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http://www.youtube.c...h?v=08wP9JODO78
proof of factual errors of Chieftain

das_nooblet #46 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 01:00

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chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:30, said:

I felt let down by this as he glossed over the td section...Not to mention was flawed with factual errors about the stug and no mention of the fiasco known as the Ferdinand.
I think he simply just ran out of time. Very easy to go off on tangents or linger too long in one spot when you're educating on a topic you're passionate about :Smile_honoring:

chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:30, said:

Or the fact he didnt cover how sloped armor and german in game = no advantage, Where as sloped and russian= advantage.
"Historical Overview of German Vehicles using World of Tanks Garage"
These videos are meant to educate about the history of tanks, not a showcase of the community's gripes about the game.

chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:51, said:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=08wP9JODO78
proof of factual errors of Chieftain
For chissake people, read the thread. This has already been adressed several times :Smile_sceptic:

Edited by das_nooblet, Jul 30 2012 - 01:02.


The_Chieftain #47 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 01:02

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laxrules56, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:25, said:

i felt like i`ve watched this before... was this on one of the live events at E3?

Yes.

Figured it'll get a bit more mileage.

chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:30, said:

I felt let down by this as he glossed over the td section...Not to mention was flawed with factual errors about the stug and no mention of the fiasco known as the Ferdinand.

The director had waved at us at that point, telling us we were out of time. Hence the glossing over. What were the factual StuG errors, other than my not being sure if it was F or G off the top of my head? And was Ferdinand really a fiasco, or is that just common perception? (For the latter, watch this space)

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Or the fact he didnt cover how sloped armor and german in game = no advantage, Where as sloped and russian= advantage.

Not quite sure I understand that. The slope is the slope, whatever the angle of impact is.

Edited by The_Chieftain, Jul 30 2012 - 01:03.


prince_machiavelli #48 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 01:08

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I want your garage. Can I has it?

Wuerger #49 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 01:37

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FryaDuck, on Jul 29 2012 - 22:52, said:

A7V Mephisto


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The tank was captured at the Second Battle of Villers-Bretonneux on 24 April 1918 by the 26th Battalion of the 7th Brigade 2nd Division 1st AIF, mostly from Queensland. The battle for the area saw the Australian, British and German forces in a fluid situation, moving around the tank, which had been disabled after falling into a ditch and still had dead crew inside. The Australian infantry, hatched a plan to capture it so it could not be used by the Germans. After launching an artillery barrage, the Infantry moved forward and dragged it back to their lines, the Germans still being in a position in sight of the tank and firing at them. They had to don gas masks after poison gas was deployed..



Posted Image


Nice work FryaDuck, I pass the Mephisto every day going to work and used to (as a kid) play in the interior (which is gutted apart from the remains of the driveline from the gearbox back, but does still have the front mounted main gun although no breach block) when it used to sit outside the Old Museum Building next to the RNA Showgrounds.

Sadly I was away on tour when they moved it to it's current home in SouthBank, locked up in it's humidycrib.

At least it is "saved".

Oh and Cheftain, Brisbane is the Capitol of the State of Queensland ... not "some little town"

Just for your clarification :)

Edited by Wuerger, Jul 30 2012 - 01:46.


Tiger_23 #50 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 01:44

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chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:51, said:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=08wP9JODO78
proof of factual errors of Chieftain

:Smile_great:

This video is rich in infos

Edited by Tiger_23, Jul 30 2012 - 01:45.


Maus123 #51 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 02:05

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The Chieftain, when will WG release the Char 2C?

The_Chiv #52 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 03:06

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The_Chieftain, on Jul 30 2012 - 01:02, said:

Yes.

Figured it'll get a bit more mileage.



The director had waved at us at that point, telling us we were out of time. Hence the glossing over. What were the factual StuG errors, other than my not being sure if it was F or G off the top of my head? And was Ferdinand really a fiasco, or is that just common perception? (For the latter, watch this space)



Not quite sure I understand that. The slope is the slope, whatever the angle of impact is.

The Fiasco with the Ferdinand Tank destroyer historically was that it lacked a machine gun secondary and thus infantry sappers were able to plant charges on them or even set them afire with simple molotov cocktails. In the battle of kursk 93 were fielded. Most were either destroyed by infantry, or by were imobilized by mines and thus force to be abandoned due to lack of replacement parts. Though to its credit it did have a 10:1 kill ratio Something about being able to engage targets at 3 miles where as the t34 had to be at 1.5 miles to engage.

My issue with your factual error was that you sited the Stugg as being a bad concept for a tank destroyer. Where in fact it was never meant to be a tank destroyer, just that it did its job very well. The short nosed low velocity shells used in the original stugg designs had issues with the t34's and kv's but did get the job done. It wasnt until later that Hitler ordered and increase in armor and gun size for the Stuggs. Stuggs had the longest service life of any german vehicle and by volume had 3:1 ratio of kills. Now figure that just shy of 10k of them were made...Your talking about 30K+ tanks killed by a Tank destroyer platform that you said "Not so useful". Infact the Stugg was the most versatile vehicle as it served a wide range of roles. In Fact Micheal Wittman, German Tank Ace was in a Stugg. When he later was transferred over to the pazner corp he took the same battle doctrines and methods of movement he learned in the Stugg and on day 1 of being a commander of PZIII took out 6 russian tanks. He even used the tiger in the same method and was extremely lethal. Till  a lucky shot on his replacement tiger knocked the turret off.

Now As for the angle of armor being able to bounce shells or deflect the kinetic force up and away issue. It has become ever increasingly apparent in this game since Beta that while some tanks, Russian to be exact, are able to bounce shells at a rather alarming rate. The same effect is not as apparent and in fact seems to have decreased since the beta. Now I know you have nothing to say or do about this but your explanation of this mechanic and its applications in game do not occure as such. Yes I know there are factors such as angle and elevation offsets that factor in this, But when you do a side by side comparison with the su15 which has a lesser degree of sloped armor in comparison to the Jagdpanther it bounces shells more often then the jagdpanther. I have Tested this out with over 400 shots from each, which is really costly I light to add. The Su 152 was using 122 mm D-25 mod. 1944 and the Jagdpanther was using 8,8 cm PaK 43 L/71 The Su 152 had a higher rate of penetration on the Jagdpanther. It also had a higher rate of deflected shots from the jagdpanzer. Now I could understand this if it had some kind of sloped armor or more armor on its front but in fact has less. These test were done at 100m using hitbox skins Aiming at 4 location on each of the TD's Frontal armor. The only advantge to the Jagdpanther is it has a greater accuracy and greater turning rate. However again this is not something you have a say in, but keep it in mind when talking about the mechanic of deflection.

Yorrick #53 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 03:11

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chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 00:51, said:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=08wP9JODO78
proof of factual errors of Chieftain

great video i thought i had seen just about everything about ww2 tanks on utube .but now i have a whole lot more to watch thaks to this link

oh and chieftan can i have just 1 million of your 8 million gold plz

The_Chieftain #54 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 03:26

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chivalry1978, on Jul 30 2012 - 03:06, said:

The Fiasco with the Ferdinand Tank destroyer historically was that it lacked a machine gun secondary and thus infantry sappers were able to plant charges on them or even set them afire with simple molotov cocktails. In the battle of kursk 93 were fielded. Most were either destroyed by infantry, or by were imobilized by mines and thus force to be abandoned due to lack of replacement parts. Though to its credit it did have a 10:1 kill ratio Something about being able to engage targets at 3 miles where as the t34 had to be at 1.5 miles to engage.

I believe you'll find that the number destroyed by infantry was reasonably low, and that the move to add a machinegun was more a psychological matter, not one borne out by the rigours of combat. The Germans had, after all, figured out the whole combined arms concept. And I believe you'll find that most Ferdis were not destroyed at Kursk, if for no other reason that just over half the production run were converted to Elefants. It would seem that sPzJagAbt 653 claimed 320 tanks killed for 13 Ferdis lost during Kursk, Outside of the mechanical issues (The reason Type 101 didn't become Tiger in the first place), Ferdi did very well. Of course, the technical issues were no small matter.

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My issue with your factual error was that you sited the Stugg as being a bad concept for a tank destroyer.

No, I did not.

Quote

Your talking about 30K+ tanks killed by a Tank destroyer platform that you said "Not so useful".

As noted above, I was referring to Sturmtiger with that comment.

Heisenburg #55 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 04:31

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I stand corrected,

Tishr #56 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 04:35

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I thought this one was better than the American overview as that one was some what rushed and didn't mention a fairly large number of reasonably important tanks in that tree.

The_Chiv #57 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 05:08

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Actually they still didnt really add a machine gun just pop out plugs to put a sub machine gun out. and fire...However It was still viewed as a design failure by many in the german army.

therowman #58 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 05:47

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Did you ever do one on the Russian tanks?

Joe_Dracos #59 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 08:42

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So I watched both of your overviews of tanks. I was quite impressed and learned a few things I didn't know before (particuarily about the VK series). I would be interested in hearing/reading more.

remnantSiX #60 Posted Jul 30 2012 - 12:21

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I guess I can like your facebook page since you have the right head gear...




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