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[0.8.8] Tank Camouflage Tables

camo camouflage spotting

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IamJohnGalt #21 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 20:14

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Watch out, someones going to get permabanned for letting this info out to the public.......WG has kept it very close to the chest......and now we all know why.  The last guy who posted this info is GONE, BYE BYE, VANISHED< VAPORIZED.....just so you know....be careful.

Veril #22 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 20:34

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View PostIamJohnGalt, on Aug 03 2012 - 20:14, said:

Watch out, someones going to get permabanned for letting this info out to the public.......WG has kept it very close to the chest......and now we all know why.  The last guy who posted this info is GONE, BYE BYE, VANISHED< VAPORIZED.....just so you know....be careful.

This info is publicly available on the RU WOT server forums... Conspiracy much?

IamJohnGalt #23 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 20:38

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View PostVerilogus, on Aug 03 2012 - 20:34, said:

This info is publicly available on the RU WOT server forums... Conspiracy much?

Not a conspiracy......they really did it.   Its has been talked about a lot here.  I thank you for posting it, and hope you dont get in trouble for it.

The reason maybe that they dont want flamed becasue the Russian vehicles have stupidly high cammo values maybe....and they dont like being called out for it maybe????  Now I am being "conspiracy"....maybe.

Aeten #24 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 20:49

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Shows how skewed this game is some tanks get close to 0 and similar sized vehicles get 20+ <------ bullshit in other words

Mother_Animal #25 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:09

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View PostMisterLemons, on Aug 03 2012 - 05:27, said:

Russian camoflage values both stationary, moving, and fireing are averaging better than everything else!?

Shocker...

Yes, but look at french TDs too. Pretty much all of them are quite good!

TheRonmasteh #26 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:13

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This table (Obviously a fan-made one) has never been updated since the Devs had removed (hidden) the official camo values on 0.6.4.

This is indeed a very valuable find. Thanks for sharing. +1

Veril #27 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:18

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View PostTheRonmasteh, on Aug 03 2012 - 21:13, said:

This table (Obviously a fan-made one) has never been updated since the Devs had removed (hidden) the official camo values on 0.6.4.

This is indeed a very valuable find. Thanks for sharing. +1

This table has nothing to do with any official material. From what the original post said it was obtained in training rooms with the use of a marder2 when it still had a 400m view range (not sure if they kept on using it in 7.5, larger view range reduces error bars so they probably used another 400m view range vehicle) and they calculated the % of negated vision with simple math. Official camo values are not even required and definitely shouldn't be trusted even if provided.

Mow_Mow #28 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:23

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Keep in mind that Russian tanks tend to have poor vision.

TheRonmasteh #29 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:23

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View PostVerilogus, on Aug 03 2012 - 21:18, said:

This table has nothing to do with any official material. From what the original post said it was obtained in training rooms with the use of a marder2 when it still had a 400m view range (not sure if they kept on using it in 7.5, larger view range reduces error bars so they probably used another 400m view range vehicle) and they calculated the % of negated vision with simple math. Official camo values are not even required and definitely shouldn't be trusted even if provided.

Before 0.6.4 Patch, there were official Values Listed on the Client. They were hidden, but listed.

On 0.6.4 and beyond, Devs removed the values from the Client and they just left it server-wise. Unless you hack the servers, it is still a mystery the real values.

But yeah. Those values were VERY old and unreliable at this date of 0.7.5 (I even remember the Ferdinand got a massive camo buff on 7.0).

Again, thanks for sharing.

-

Yes, Marder II has been nerfed to 360. But there are plenty of vehicles with 400mm View Range. And even some on low tier, like the Somua S35 CA.

-

And on-topic...

I'm glad the Hetzer is still the invisible king :) Too bad he is still a blind tank...

Edited by TheRonmasteh, Aug 03 2012 - 21:24.


Dominatus #30 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:28

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View PostIamJohnGalt, on Aug 03 2012 - 20:14, said:

Watch out, someones going to get permabanned for letting this info out to the public.......WG has kept it very close to the chest......and now we all know why.  The last guy who posted this info is GONE, BYE BYE, VANISHED< VAPORIZED.....just so you know....be careful.

It's different this time because the last guy hacked into and disected the game code. This guy just copy/pasted some stuff that the Russian players found in their own testing. It's not perfectly accurate, but give a good idea of the real values.

Drseckzytime #31 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:33

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View PostEmbiggener, on Aug 03 2012 - 17:32, said:

This is why Russian tanks are going to see other tanks farther away and get in the first shot.  Which, of course, meshes nicely with the huge ass alpha and penetration you see on so many of them.   It's not even a matter of "creeping" anywhere, you're simply not going to spot them.  

We've all seen the 704's that vanish in the middle of the street.

Accuracy, accuracy on the move, etc doesn't make up for this.  You can't use an advantage when you're dead.

Much in the same vein, some other tanks' nominal armor thicknesses don't mean anything if the other guns fly right through it anyways - they get crap values for *everything* but that, and it does them no good.  Meanwhile shots bounce off the "thinly armored" Russian tanks like mad.

I'm not saying the game isn't fun... just... I see what they did there....

I agree.  It happens so often how their tanks would disappear in the middle of streets and fields.  They'd be able to drive out, shoot, and then appear as they're backing behind cover after the fact.  Soon as some German or American tanks begin to move out of cover to shoot they're lit up and you'll see a shot come in at you before you get one off.  Just another shady mechanic they put in and certainly doesn't help the "russian bias" statements at all.

Edited by Drseckzytime, Aug 03 2012 - 21:34.


Tigermisu #32 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:37

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View PostDrseckzytime, on Aug 03 2012 - 21:33, said:

They'd be able to drive out, shoot, and then appear as they're backing behind cover after the fact.  Soon as some German or American tanks begin to move out of cover to shoot they're lit up and you'll see a shot come in at you before you get one off.  

Learn spotting mechanics! Vision checks arent performed every tick at long ranges, any tank that's far away could quickly peek and go back without being spotted if they  do it just after a vision check. Camo doesn't affect vision checks at all.

tanky_the_tank #33 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 21:53

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Haha, top German arty ties Maus for worst camo.

Also reinforces that T29 and T34 are not great at disappearing. You can predict a lot of these camo values by looking at tank size, compare M5 and Chaffee, look at some of the other 20's and under 5's.

Edited by tanky_the_tank, Aug 03 2012 - 21:55.


BilboTankins #34 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 23:17

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View PostTigermisu, on Aug 03 2012 - 21:37, said:

Learn spotting mechanics! Vision checks arent performed every tick at long ranges, any tank that's far away could quickly peek and go back without being spotted if they  do it just after a vision check. Camo doesn't affect vision checks at all.

um, do you realize that if someone peeks as you suggest they won't see anything either since no vision check happened while they were peeking.

therowman #35 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 23:19

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View PostMisterLemons, on Aug 03 2012 - 05:27, said:

Russian camoflage values both stationary, moving, and fireing are averaging better than everything else!?

Shocker...

Shocker the smaller tanks that sacrifices their gun depressions are harder to see.

IamJohnGalt #36 Posted Aug 03 2012 - 23:31

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View Posttherowman, on Aug 03 2012 - 23:19, said:

Shocker the smaller tanks that sacrifices their gun depressions are harder to see.

Im sorry, but MOST Russian tanks are not that much smaller.  Some should have a higher cammo value, I agree, but that their whole damn tree!!  The number given to the middle and up German tiers is just plain nuts!!   Yes, they tend to be a bit taller, but they could and DID hide them very well back in the day.  I know this is a game, and not a sim....but I would like to see a bit more realism here......I mean a 30 foot long 10 foot wide 7 foot tall tank moving across an open field at 300 meters just disappears!!!!  Deer cant even do that, and they are a small animal compared to a tank!  Its not just the Russian tanks...its all them....its just whacked.  The Russian tanks just do it a little more than the others.

  I know all about the "spotting system"....its still BS.  I think they should rework it before putting out even more tanks!!!

Veril #37 Posted Aug 04 2012 - 00:07

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View PostIamJohnGalt, on Aug 03 2012 - 23:31, said:

Im sorry, but MOST Russian tanks are not that much smaller.  Some should have a higher cammo value, I agree, but that their whole damn tree!!  The number given to the middle and up German tiers is just plain nuts!!   Yes, they tend to be a bit taller, but they could and DID hide them very well back in the day.  I know this is a game, and not a sim....but I would like to see a bit more realism here......I mean a 30 foot long 10 foot wide 7 foot tall tank moving across an open field at 300 meters just disappears!!!!  Deer cant even do that, and they are a small animal compared to a tank!  Its not just the Russian tanks...its all them....its just whacked.  The Russian tanks just do it a little more than the others.

  I know all about the "spotting system"....its still BS.  I think they should rework it before putting out even more tanks!!!

I think the camo system is fine, for some reason it just never happens to me that a big tank just disappears in the middle of nowhere at 300 meters, maybe because I mostly drive t10 tanks and they all have 400 view range. Once you master the camo system and I assume you have you can also exploit that knowledge.

Edited by Verilogus, Aug 04 2012 - 00:47.


Tigermisu #38 Posted Aug 04 2012 - 02:39

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View PostBilboTankins, on Aug 03 2012 - 23:17, said:

um, do you realize that if someone peeks as you suggest they won't see anything either since no vision check happened while they were peeking.

You don't have to be the one actively spotting your target...

Edited by Tigermisu, Aug 04 2012 - 02:39.


therowman #39 Posted Aug 04 2012 - 03:18

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View PostIamJohnGalt, on Aug 03 2012 - 23:31, said:

Im sorry, but MOST Russian tanks are not that much smaller.  Some should have a higher cammo value, I agree, but that their whole damn tree!!  The number given to the middle and up German tiers is just plain nuts!!   Yes, they tend to be a bit taller, but they could and DID hide them very well back in the day.  I know this is a game, and not a sim....but I would like to see a bit more realism here......I mean a 30 foot long 10 foot wide 7 foot tall tank moving across an open field at 300 meters just disappears!!!!  Deer cant even do that, and they are a small animal compared to a tank!  Its not just the Russian tanks...its all them....its just whacked.  The Russian tanks just do it a little more than the others.

  I know all about the "spotting system"....its still BS.  I think they should rework it before putting out even more tanks!!!

Im sorry, but most are MUCH smaller.

Take for example Is-7

http://media.desura....-7_vs_E-100.jpg


Its almost 25% smaller



Heck, Name some examples of german and american tanks that are smaller then their russian counterpart.

Edited by therowman, Aug 04 2012 - 03:19.


Veril #40 Posted Aug 04 2012 - 19:39

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View Posttherowman, on Aug 04 2012 - 03:18, said:

Im sorry, but most are MUCH smaller.

Size doesn't really matter much, take for example the MS1 that has worse camo than the much larger 704. They just made up the camo system from nothing, which is not to say its bad just unrealistic but then many things are.





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