50 replies to this topic

[MachetePanda]

We wiped out a whole team except their arty(got 5 kills with my KV-1S).  Their arty just wanted to surrender(they were obviously new because they were asking for the button). And I really felt for them.  I mean... your repair costs are so insane if you lose, you cant make up for it and if your running low... it can really end the game for you on your favorite tank.

I was thinking... why not surrender?  People should not be allowed to surrender at any point they want. I think in special conditions an option should come up. Specifically if its like 8 against 2.  The two that remain should get the option to vote on a surrender. Maybe a 3 to 1 ratio would let the losing team vote.

I just felt so sad for these guys cause I know how much repairs are if your tank is destroyed, then on top of that, you lose and dont get diddly crap for money.  If your buying lend lease oil or what ever other consumable... it sucks.  You cant pick when the lend lease oil is used in the battle, you get a shinto team and your stuck using it on a sucky battle.

[CatinHat]

I have used Oil since my first tier 5 tank never had a problem paying for that and making money. If he has money issues that is what tier 5 and 6 normal tanks, prem. tanks (which are almost needed to run high tier tanks (9-10)) and sub accounts.

There should be no surrender. Without a retreat they will fight harder.

[theasshat84]

they could always try to run and hide.  then hope the opposing team caps instead of hunting.  only surrender option i see.

[MachetePanda]

CatinHat, on Aug 04 2012 - 14:50, said:

I have used Oil since my first tier 5 tank never had a problem paying for that and making money. If he has money issues that is what tier 5 and 6 normal tanks, prem. tanks (which are almost needed to run high tier tanks (9-10)) and sub accounts.

There should be no surrender. Without a retreat they will fight harder.

Why should they fight harder? It doesnt do anything exciting in a 8 to 2 game. We surround them... boom.  This just sound like a comment from someone who is not about the general fun of the game. More into blood lust.

theasshat84, on Aug 04 2012 - 14:51, said:

they could always try to run and hide.  then hope the opposing team caps instead of hunting.  only surrender option i see.

There isn't a surrender option.  that is what Im suggesting.

[gremlin181]

Provided all the players click on surrender or end game whatever otherwise they must fight on.

Thinking of cases where some players could force the end of the game just because they think there is no point and in doing so make it worse for the others.

Have seen some amazing fight backs be a shame to lose that just to save on repair, be a pain for the guy trying to get 6 kills if the enemy pull the plug too.

[MachetePanda]

gremlin181, on Aug 04 2012 - 15:04, said:

Provided all the players click on surrender or end game whatever otherwise they must fight on.

Thinking of cases where some players could force the end of the game just because they think there is no point and in doing so make it worse for the others.

Have seen some amazing fight backs be a shame to lose that just to save on repair, be a pain for the guy trying to get 6 kills if the enemy pull the plug too.

Yeah I can agree with that.  At the same time I can see a camping T-50 which has pennies for repair costs voting to not surrender when the battle is futile and more expensive/experienced tanks know the battle is over.

But yeah... something is better then nothing.  I can see that working, teams need to be a 4:1 ratio and then the vote comes up and it must be unanimous.

[CatinHat]

MachetePanda, on Aug 04 2012 - 14:55, said:

Why should they fight harder? It doesnt do anything exciting in a 8 to 2 game. We surround them... boom.  This just sound like a comment from someone who is not about the general fun of the game. More into blood lust.

I have seem games where those two members could pull of a win for their team. It is up to the skill of those two players and working together. Had a game today with my matlida were my whole team but for a M4 rush the flag and died. Well the M4 and I went and won that game for our team. I had 6 kills and the M4 had 4 kills. Should we have just given up when we watch our pub team mates rush into their deaths?

Also, "More into blood lust." with this you open yourself to this quote:

[MachetePanda]

CatinHat, on Aug 04 2012 - 15:21, said:

I have seem games where those two members could pull of a win for their team. It is up to the skill of those two players and working together. Had a game today with my matlida were my whole team but for a M4 rush the flag and died. Well the M4 and I went and won that game for our team. I had 6 kills and the M4 had 4 kills. Should we have just given up when we watch our pub team mates rush into their deaths?

Also, "More into blood lust." with this you open yourself to this quote:

lol nice video.

But on your "It is up to the skill of those two players and working together."  By transitive property you can also say this would still make it up to those two on what to do.

[CatinHat]

MachetePanda, on Aug 04 2012 - 15:28, said:

lol nice video.

But on your "It is up to the skill of those two players and working together."  By transitive property you can also say this would still make it up to those two on what to do.

The current state helps or forces on which view point you see it as for players to problem solve the issues at hand. This also affects to players name as well with the playerbase. Some one that puts up a good fight is looked more highly on than someone that quits. With their name also has impact on their clans name as well. A clan that is respected wants more members with a good name. This leads to a great roll with the clan when facing off with other clans.

Everything is linked by the chain at which starts with the player.

[charlie9797]

Imagine those people who don't like the match ( attacking on assault) surrendering 1st minute.

[CatinHat]

charlie9797, on Aug 04 2012 - 15:39, said:

Imagine those people who don't like the match ( attacking on assault) surrendering 1st minute.

good point there m8

[Gut_zilla]

You feel bad for the arty ?  Man, you need to see a doctor and fast. If he had a chance to destroy you, do you think he would have had any pity for your repairs ?  LOL .
Imagine if they want to surrender after destroying 5 or more of your teamates. Silly suggestion.

[StormDagger]

There is a surrender option already...it's called "Leave Battle".

[MachetePanda]

charlie9797, on Aug 04 2012 - 15:39, said:

Imagine those people who don't like the match ( attacking on assault) surrendering 1st minute.

If you read the post, you would see that cant happen from what is being proposed here. A ratio(4:1 battle) of people alive is required of the team to be out numbered and we discussed everyone on the losing team must vote for the surrender.

CatinHat, on Aug 04 2012 - 15:44, said:

good point there m8

^^^

StormDagger, on Aug 04 2012 - 18:07, said:

There is a surrender option already...it's called "Leave Battle".

Your tank stays in battle and can be destroyed. Beside, why would you want people to be able to just leave? They should have to stay till a ratio of them are out numbered AND until everyone on their team agrees to surrender.

Edited by MachetePanda, Aug 04 2012 - 21:22.

[graytiger]

Well, let's think about Surrender vs repair costs.

Would you really expect to keep your tank and crew at the same, they are subject to the victor's conditions.  The least I would expect with a Surrendered tank, is a ransom.  Why not xx% of the repair cost and a 2-3% ding on the crew's training?   I know the thought here was, the ouch of repair cost vs walking away, but there is all ways a price for walking away.

The other part is who gets the bonus for the capture?  Last tank to ding, last tank to damage, or if zed damage, the MVP?

[StormDagger]

If you surrender, just like in RL, you are at the mercy of those you surrender to.  Surrendering should not guarantee that you save repair costs or anything else.  If you want to raise the white flag you do so at your peril.

So if your so wrapped up in saving credits run to as safe a spot as you can find on the map and hide.  Otherwise fight it out, do some damage, and go down swinging.

Your suggestion isn't a surrender option its a "get out of jail free" card.  Surrender means that you are putting your safety and welfare in the hands of the enemy without resistance, what they do with you is entirely at their discretion, and in WoT there is no Geneva convention.

As I stated before there is a surrender option already available and its called "Leave Battle".

[I_Could_Care_Less]

MachetePanda, on Aug 04 2012 - 14:45, said:

We wiped out a whole team except their arty(got 5 kills with my KV-1S).  Their arty just wanted to surrender(they were obviously new because they were asking for the button). And I really felt for them.  I mean... your repair costs are so insane if you lose, you cant make up for it and if your running low... it can really end the game for you on your favorite tank.

I was thinking... why not surrender?  People should not be allowed to surrender at any point they want. I think in special conditions an option should come up. Specifically if its like 8 against 2.  The two that remain should get the option to vote on a surrender. Maybe a 3 to 1 ratio would let the losing team vote.

I just felt so sad for these guys cause I know how much repairs are if your tank is destroyed, then on top of that, you lose and dont get diddly crap for money.  If your buying lend lease oil or what ever other consumable... it sucks.  You cant pick when the lend lease oil is used in the battle, you get a shinto team and your stuck using it on a sucky battle.

nice i try to offer them to live as i know the feeling of not wanting to repair the big tank  but a fellow team mate always hunts them down and kills them

[MachetePanda]

graytiger, on Aug 04 2012 - 21:42, said:

Well, let's think about Surrender vs repair costs.

Would you really expect to keep your tank and crew at the same, they are subject to the victor's conditions.  The least I would expect with a Surrendered tank, is a ransom.  Why not xx% of the repair cost and a 2-3% ding on the crew's training?   I know the thought here was, the ouch of repair cost vs walking away, but there is all ways a price for walking away.

The other part is who gets the bonus for the capture?  Last tank to ding, last tank to damage, or if zed damage, the MVP?

See... with your comment "Would you really expect to keep your tank and crew at the same" your thinking how I expect the game to work. I have long been a fan of, if I kill your driver... you lose him.  He doesn't get magically resurrected.  BUT being that he does... I dont think you can apply that here.

I really dont see any reason a surrendered tank should have to pay "ransom", just as the driver in my example comes back alive, your crew should come back too. I also dont think the other players should get "capture points" they are going to win anyway, and get the bonus.  Maybe if you elaborate your reasoning?

StormDagger, on Aug 04 2012 - 23:18, said:

If you surrender, just like in RL, you are at the mercy of those you surrender to.  Surrendering should not guarantee that you save repair costs or anything else.  If you want to raise the white flag you do so at your peril.

So if your so wrapped up in saving credits run to as safe a spot as you can find on the map and hide.  Otherwise fight it out, do some damage, and go down swinging.

Your suggestion isn't a surrender option its a "get out of jail free" card.  Surrender means that you are putting your safety and welfare in the hands of the enemy without resistance, what they do with you is entirely at their discretion, and in WoT there is no Geneva convention.

As I stated before there is a surrender option already available and its called "Leave Battle".

As I mentioned above ^^^ in this reply, just as your crew comes back from death with out expense, why wouldn't they from surrendering?

Your objection to the option of surrender isn't reasonable. Your basically saying "They should die because they are losing." If you apply consequences for surrendering with the reward of saving repairs, you must apply consequences to winning too.  You invaded a town, or province, and there is bound to be opposition.

Obviously this isnt the case. Its not a 'war', its more like a skirmish.  So taking over an area doesn't have consequences, just as surrendering shouldn't.

[deathcyte]

Ha ha that happened to me a few nights ago, I was the last of my team in my t57 and was closer to their base they had started to cap, I moved to their base and spotted a few of them, killed one, then one of them made a run at me, a straight run I might add, not smart against a SPG still a little ways away.

I got 1 solid hit in then moved towards him, he rammed me and died! Lol..
Then I hit 2 more before the game ended without me dying! Lol...I will never surrender!
I'm sure they were surprised I fought, rather then hiding....

[graytiger]

I believe you are mixing two different topics in your response. One, how the current game mechanics work concerning crew damage vs a suggestion on how to implement a surrender option.  

As to how the game resurrects crew members, just wrap your mind around cloning and everyone is named Smith, Brown, etc...

As to the suggested surrender option:

I do not believe in a free-pass for this, an option such as this should have consequences.  If you do not do so, there are enough weasels that would opt' out because they did not like the initial MM setup, map, etc...

As for ransom, read up on your history, even current. We are not playing a civilian transportation delivery game here, we are playing an arcade tank sim.  

I would propose a couple of additional consequences
   1.  This could only be used if you are the last surviving tank
Your position should shown on the map, there should be a 10 second timer pop'd
If no one kills you in this time, then they accepted your surrender
Again, points for capturing you should go to the surviving victorious tanks

   2.  In addition to the crew training percentage hit, the Commander should lose his one skill level, reset to zero
Again, read your history - surrendering is not something that ensures your career growth, unless you like firing squads

   3.  Taking this option awards you the White Feather in your stats, just so the rest of us know

To be honest, I would not use this. I have used my Grill as a TD on the last 3 opposing tanks to pull the win and I have captured the flag and won Invader in my Matilda.  I have depleted my credit to where I had to run my Tetra to gen enough to run my Tier 6s...  

I do not believe in TK'ing or teaming with someone that has that habit.  Equally, I would not team with someone who did win the white feather.  They do not know how to play the game and are an unreliable team member.  

We all lose credits.  We all click Battle, freely.  Someone surrendering, is missing the rush I get, live or die, from the game.

Edited by graytiger, Aug 05 2012 - 05:27.