Jump to content


Vk4502(P) Ausf B Vs Is-4


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
303 replies to this topic

darknothing #41 Posted Nov 09 2010 - 19:07

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 4595 battles
  • 160
  • Member since:
    10-09-2010
good post, really good.

MARMIST #42 Posted Nov 09 2010 - 20:28

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 290
  • Member since:
    08-24-2010

View PostFootballFan, on Nov 09 2010 - 18:53, said:

It has been writen thousands of times maybe but maybe if we really spam the forum about it someone will wake UP and do something !

max traverse speed for vk 20deg for is4 27. Max speed vk 30km/h is4 35km/h. Superior acceleration for is4 than even new engine for vk WONT CHANGE. Better armor for is4, better turret traverse for is4. Only gun is comparable and turret traverse is worse too. You can write and write about this

I ask again this is BALLANCE ? Why cant we get a real answer ? We are betatesting, we write our impressions, concerns and dont see anyone doing anything about it

That's my only hope


They are trollin us for real ! We ask more armor and a gun with at least the same penetration of the 130 and what do they give us ? A RIDICULOUS SPEED THAT THE VK SHOULD ALREADY HAVE ? I would seriously put all the devs on a vk and force them to fight a IS.4 Everytime they lose they get.......I don't know what but it must be very painful.

I'm sure that after the first 20 losses they would finally use what's inside their heads. Whatever it is.

I don't really understand what is their brain doing right now. I wonder if the russian players right now are ejoyin their release version with all this problems still unsolved. We crawled for MONTHS all the way up to the top to find us with what ? THIS CRAP !?!?

View PostHornet331, on Nov 09 2010 - 19:06, said:

just give us better hull travers speed... if they want to give us crap side and rare armor at least let us have the ability to use the frontal armor... give us something in the range of 30...

I have to argue with that. WE NEED MORE FRONTAL ARMOR AND MORE TURRET FRONTAL ARMOR too. It's not possible it's not fair that a IS.4 can penetrate a vk IN EVERY SPOT !

theking497 #43 Posted Nov 09 2010 - 21:40

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 19
  • Member since:
    09-12-2010

View PostRagor, on Nov 02 2010 - 05:59, said:

Great opening post. I only want to add/have to mention that the VK4502P had an electronic engine which was fed by the two Porsche engines via 2 generators. Thats the reason for the 'strange' shape of the chassis.

What is the benefit of an e-engine? Great torgue! From the first rpm of the engine you got full torgue/power where a conventional engine only has its max power output at a specific range of the rpm scale.

With its unique setup (which was way to complex for a combat vehicle those days) the conventinal the generator feeding engines could always work at their optimal rpm bandwith and the e-engine was providing extremely good acceleration and hill climbing abilities for the mass.

-> The game parameters for the VK4502P ingame handling (i suppose) rely only on the generator feeding engines which is quite odd.


-> GIVE THE VK4502P ITS TORQUE = GOOD ACCELARATION


the vk4502 in game is a version with 2 diesel engines and hydralic gearbox but still very powerful as Excavators have the same setup and i have driven an Excavator so i know the power of an hydralic gearbox it dosent lose power going uphill but it´s not the best setup for speed....

n0z3k1ll3r #44 Posted Nov 09 2010 - 23:45

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 878 battles
  • 203
  • Member since:
    07-21-2010

Quote

n0z3k1ll3r,

Please let me know what you are smoking for I would like to try some, would like to find a fantasy world of my own.
I labbed this a while back. The KT, with the stock gun (all else upgraded) penetrated all but one shot on the IS3 (fully upgraded with the BL9) front (the one shot that didn't penetrate dinged off the turret as the aim was thrown off by an IS3 hit just before I fired). The IS3 dinged about half its shots off the KT front. If I'd had the 105, it would have been even more one sided. As it was, the KT was well above half health when the IS3 died. And that's hardly surprising; from a pure stats perspective the KT has 150 front sloped armour (vs 110) and 200 more hp, its far more survivable. The Kingtiger WILL lose to the IS3 if the IS3 can get close and maneouvre a bit, but if that happens then honestly you've fucked up. Badly.

LordN #45 Posted Nov 09 2010 - 23:57

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 48
  • Member since:
    10-06-2010
I'm just going to stick to tiger 2 / KT .. no way I'm taking that piece of junk what is VK45. I'm already jealous at my mate who's getting IS4 like inside 1h as it actually is way more terrifying than an VK on open field.

n0z3k1ll3r #46 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 00:24

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 878 battles
  • 203
  • Member since:
    07-21-2010
Also I am beginning to wonder if the VK isn't harder to penetrate from the front. I've dinged off it more than the IS4s front it seems.

Not trying to argue the VK isn't awful as it blatantly is, but I would like to know if anyone else has noticed this. Could just be bad luck, VKs are rare and I try to avoid shooting them in the front when I do see them, so my sample size is a lot smaller.

Hornet331 #47 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 01:13

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 492
  • Member since:
    07-31-2010

View Postn0z3k1ll3r, on Nov 09 2010 - 23:45, said:

I labbed this a while back. The KT, with the stock gun (all else upgraded) penetrated all but one shot on the IS3 (fully upgraded with the BL9) front (the one shot that didn't penetrate dinged off the turret as the aim was thrown off by an IS3 hit just before I fired). The IS3 dinged about half its shots off the KT front. If I'd had the 105, it would have been even more one sided. As it was, the KT was well above half health when the IS3 died. And that's hardly surprising; from a pure stats perspective the KT has 150 front sloped armour (vs 110) and 200 more hp, its far more survivable. The Kingtiger WILL lose to the IS3 if the IS3 can get close and maneouvre a bit, but if that happens then honestly you've fucked up. Badly.

I loled... a IS3 can easly go 30kmh which is ~8,3m/s, with the L71 its ~7 seconds for reload -> he can close 70m just between your reload cycle. If you try to hit him at 250m+ on the front it pretty much a gable if you hit the lower fornt plate or not.

So you can track him, to stop him, meaing you certainly do 0% dmg and he also can shoot at you. He doesn't even need to aim anywhere specific, just autoaim and you aim at the turret, which is the weak spot for a KT. Two shots and its guranteed that either the ammo/gun or gunner/loader is gone... blam your dead meat.

And nope armorwise they are pretty simmilar KT 150@50° ~233mm and for IS3 its 110@53° ~182mm for lower and 110@72° ~355mm.

IS has better angels which means higher chance to bounce... If the IS3 dings on a KT hes aiming at the front plate of the KT which is just beyond retardism... especial since autoaiming just give you the best spot to aim at...

n0z3k1ll3r #48 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 01:52

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 878 battles
  • 203
  • Member since:
    07-21-2010
The KT gun is more accurate and lower aiming time, its more likely to actually hit where you aim at. Also two shots hardly "guarantees" the loss of the ammo rack/gun or gunner/loader, I took several hits that game and took no module damage. This happens fairly often, by the by.

IS3 lower plate is a bigger physical target than the upper plate by quite a bit, and 50mm effective AV makes a huge difference there. Also the IS3 slope gets worse if it angles itself away from dead on, which it needs to do to get at the KT side and rear.

Sweetheart #49 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 01:59

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 35
  • Member since:
    10-07-2010

View Postn0z3k1ll3r, on Nov 10 2010 - 01:52, said:

The KT gun is more accurate and lower aiming time, its more likely to actually hit where you aim at. Also two shots hardly "guarantees" the loss of the ammo rack/gun or gunner/loader, I took several hits that game and took no module damage. This happens fairly often, by the by.

Sadly, it does. 270 games in the KT, and if your turret gets hit twice, I'd say the chance of module/crew damage is about 80%. Easiest way to kill a KT is just to shoot the turret, extremely high chance of gun/gunner (more often) or loader/ammorack damage. As an added bonus, commander gets taken out very often as well.

I have enough exp to unlock the VK45, but I wont, as it seems like a degrade from the KT. I guess that pretty much sums it up.

n0z3k1ll3r #50 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 02:12

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 878 battles
  • 203
  • Member since:
    07-21-2010
I've had module damage in the KT but it doesn't happen any more often than any other tank. Not relative to times hit anyway. You get damaged more often per game, sure, but that's because the 1600hp keeps you alive longer so the odds of module damage go up. 80% chance in two shots is bollocks.

And yeah the VK is godawful. Not gonna disagree with you on that. Tier 9 Heavy is by far the worst balanced matchup between the two trees (excluding of course the situations where only one tree has a vehicle).

Hornet331 #51 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 02:28

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 492
  • Member since:
    07-31-2010
The chance for gun/ammo damge is ~20%, same for loader/gunner.

So yeah damage to such systems are pretty much guranteed.

Yes there are battels where i also get no sub system damge, even when im hammered bad, but thats the minority ~10%.

n0z3k1ll3r #52 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 02:57

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 878 battles
  • 203
  • Member since:
    07-21-2010
A lot of games the only subsystem damage I take is to the tracks. Most games its at most one major system, which is what repair kits/medpacks are for. Certainly I've seen nothing to suggest it happens any more to the KT than the IS3. Usually if I do get tons of subsystem damage, its from lots and lots of hits from low tier arty, and they do it to anything much.

FootballFan #53 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 19:24

    Corporal

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 50
  • Member since:
    09-15-2010
VK burdned today 5 times in 15 battles ! State of this tank is normal ?!?!? I ask you again developers !

MARMIST #54 Posted Nov 10 2010 - 19:55

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 290
  • Member since:
    08-24-2010

View PostFootballFan, on Nov 10 2010 - 19:24, said:

VK burdned today 5 times in 15 battles ! State of this tank is normal ?!?!? I ask you again developers !

It's the state of some brains things here that's not normal, my friend, unfortunately.  :Smile_great:

salihe #55 Posted Nov 11 2010 - 06:35

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 1406 battles
  • 424
  • Member since:
    10-02-2010
I used to use repair kits until I realized what a gigantic waste of money they are, since as soon as I repair my tracks/engine (which are the most commonly destroyed modules), they get obliterated again, and I just wasted 3000 credits, which I lose enough of already in my Tiger II.

Edit: I replied to the 3rd page of this thread before I went and read the whole thing from the beginning. Big mistake, since the first post is so full of win, it's hard to contain it all. I would +1, but I'm all out of votes for teh day. I'll make sure and come back tomorrow to do it when my votes are recharged. If more people made posts like this, that are well thought out, rational, and present irrefutable evidence, maybe the devs would wake up and start paying attention to them.

A couple guys in my clan and I are planning out an experiment. We're going to get 5 Tiger IIs and 5 IS3s, all 10 fully upgraded, crews maxed at 100%, and we're going to place them in a wide open map, probably Campnikova or one similar, and have them all charge and dogfight in the middle. We're going to do this at least 20 times, if not closer to 40-50, and we'll be studiously recording the results of each battle and all the details, ie module dmg, rate of fire dmg, amount of time each battle lasts, etc. I'll also post the results on the forums. While I'm fairly certain that the IS3s will come out noticeably ahead in victories, I want to get hard evidence to present on here. It'll take a bit of time to find people willing to take part in such a tedious and credit consuming experiment, not to mention the time it'll take to actually do 40-50 battles, but I hope it'll be worth it in the end. Who knows, it might present some surprises. We can only hope. I doubt it, tho.

TK421 #56 Posted Nov 11 2010 - 12:54

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 170
  • Member since:
    07-27-2010
I'd really like to hear the dev's side of this. While I really like my KT and was looking forward to unlocking the AusfB This thread has completely put me off buying one. Guess I'll be going down the Russian Road after release too. Great topic. WELL DEV'S? LETS HEAR IT. WHATS THE DEALIO?

tank_sniper #57 Posted Nov 11 2010 - 14:07

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 8076 battles
  • 223
  • Member since:
    07-17-2010
i will be getting a 4502 soon and i have yet to play with one so i am unsure but from what i have read i will be deeply saddened with it's performance, i just hope the module damage is not so severe that i want to throw up. I hope they do adjust the 4502 massively and make it to the point it can have a few good uses.

Zoijar #58 Posted Nov 11 2010 - 15:38

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 288
  • Member since:
    08-25-2010
New engine in the patch helps a bit it seems. Feels more mobile, with faster traverse. Haven't really tested it, but that's the initial feeling.

View PostAtlasxenonn, on Nov 11 2010 - 12:54, said:

While I really like my KT and was looking forward to unlocking the AusfB This thread has completely put me off buying one.

Don't be put off; it's awesome compared to the KT. Except that you need to upgrade it, which is troublesome at the beginning (as in 150k xp or so) You'll absolutely hate the stock VK compared to a fully upgraded KT, though :)

MARMIST #59 Posted Nov 11 2010 - 17:39

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 290
  • Member since:
    08-24-2010

View PostAtlasxenonn, on Nov 11 2010 - 12:54, said:

I'd really like to hear the dev's side of this. While I really like my KT and was looking forward to unlocking the AusfB This thread has completely put me off buying one. Guess I'll be going down the Russian Road after release too. Great topic. WELL DEV'S? LETS HEAR IT. WHATS THE DEALIO?


Here's some hints for you if you'll do it. Ate the beginning with the vk DO NOT ATTACK. STAY IN BASE OR IN DEFENCE AND ONLY SNIPER FROM LONG DISTANCE AND WAIT FOR THE ENEMIES TO LOSE OR TO COME TO KILL YOU. But do not attack ! You'll be too slow. Upgrade the first engine, then the second then the turret then the 128mm.

Hornet331 #60 Posted Nov 11 2010 - 19:58

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 492
  • Member since:
    07-31-2010
So we got our reduction in burn chance for the VK 3rd engien and a HP increase for the same engien.. but why the hell is it 15% instead of the 10%?

Diesel is diesel.. or is german diesel more combustible then russian diesel...  :Smile-hiding:




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users