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Earning Boots


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Ace_Emil #21 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:04

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training room battle vs stationary  targets as mentioned above would be super cool training for target practice


anyone else a Civil War follower? we have several cool reenactments where I live
http://www.visitfaye...ewv.com/history
An historic marker at the courthouse square recognizes Fayetteville as the site of the first use of indirect fire during a battle.

Killertomato #22 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:13

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Make it like TF2 training mode, I suppose, with a timer for being exposed and stuff like that. The only problem is that I can't see WG expending the effort needed to create it. :Smile_trollface-3:

JT_TANK_BAIT_CONNOISSEUR #23 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:16

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Bfredsys, Frastus and Wuerger all have fabulous ideas and I strongly encourage them to be implemented. This game NEEDS more things to do than just shoot 15 other guys in random battles.
My suggestions are to make it so only tankers with 2500 games under their belts unlock the right to participate. Earning your qualifications (there could be just one like EBQ or a series of them) could give you something, maybe pay out a little gold, maybe even just unlock a "special" camo design that no one who has not completed all of the qualification tests gets access to.

Chopa #24 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:33

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Ace_Emil, I enjoyed your link to the Fayetteville history site, but must take exception to the claim: "An historic marker at the courthouse square recognizes Fayetteville as the site of the first use of indirect fire during a battle."

  Even a cursory glance at the ubiquitous Wiki cites:

  "For several centuries Coehorn mortars were fired indirectly because their fixed elevation meant range was determined by the amount of propelling powder. It's also reasonable conjecture that if these mortars were used from inside fortifications their targets may have been invisible to them and therefore met the definition of indirect fire.
It could also be argued that Niccolò Tartaglia's invention of the gunner's quadrant (see clinometer) in the 16th Century introduced indirect fire guns because it enabled gunlaying by instrument instead of line of sight.[5] This instrument was basically a carpenter's set square with a graduated arc and plumb-bob placed in the muzzle to measure an elevation. There are suggestions[6], based on an account in Livre de Canonerie published in 1561 and reproduced in Revue d'Artillerie of March 1908, that indirect fire was used by the Burgundians in the 16th Century. The Russians seem to have used something similar at Paltsig in 1759 where they fired over trees, and their instructions of the time indicate this was a normal practice[7]. These methods probably involved an aiming point positioned in line with the target. The earliest example of indirect fire adjusted by an observer seems to be during the defence of Hougoumont in the Battle of Waterloo where a battery of the Royal Horse Artillery fired an indirect Shrapnel barrage against advancing French troops using corrections given by the commander of an adjacent battery with a direct line of sight.[8]"

KhanA14G_2_64Ar #25 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:35

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well i have earn my. 8 years as a M1 (1/70Ar 5th ID. 88-91) and M1A1(2/64Ar 3rd ID). top tank in Bn 2 times and Never scored below 950.( TTVIII the max score u can get is 1000). in 1/70th i was the only PFC gunner and was 3rd top gun in Bn.so yes i have earn my Tanker Boots and still have them both US tanker boots and German tanker boots.

BoreSight #26 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:36

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This 'Blue Torpedo' is for you Chieftain!
https://encrypted-tb...uoTV-x-otntDE-c

Ace_Emil #27 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:38

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All great ideas, I like the special Camo Pattern achievement for some type of award for whatever type of event they could have.


Yes Chopa I have seen that wiki and I think even the Romans did indirect fire way back in history with the super siege crossbows and catapults, I think it should state first used in the US Civil War
But happy you enjoyed it, I have quite a few trinkets I have collected when searching the old trenches along the merging of Gauley and New River intersection.

Edited by Ace_Emil, Aug 30 2012 - 02:41.


RobSmith #28 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:40

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Simplest form of all would be # of hits overall during an engagement that you then survive.

Iron_Patriot3 #29 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:49

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I got my boot tank table 8 in 2004 november US army 19k
1-35 baumholder germany C co top tank, top tank platoon, top tank company that year

:)

955/1000

makes me proud

postion driver

1 year later
was gunner shot a 950/1000

scores still go to 1000 fyi

Edited by LordYak, Aug 30 2012 - 02:51.


Raging_Willy #30 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 02:59

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View PostLongTrang, on Aug 30 2012 - 00:09, said:

"Tanker Boots" would make for an excellent in game achievement!

In 2009 I earned mine in Korea C co 1/72 AR, 2nd ID. Why do you want them Added ? You consider your self a "tanker" for playing an online game...........

DiscoSatan #31 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 03:19

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View PostSpcCifone19k, on Aug 30 2012 - 02:59, said:

In 2009 I earned mine in Korea C co 1/72 AR, 2nd ID. Why do you want them Added ? You consider your self a "tanker" for playing an online game...........
No disrespect intended Sir, Thank you for your service, and I have a special affinity for "tankers" as my Father was an M4 TC in WWII

PanzerXO #32 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 03:25

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Tanker boots.

I will give you a minute to think about that.

Tanker.  Boots.

As if footwear had anything to do with tanking.

Ask any Marine 18xx whether he needs a pair of special boots to do his job or prove his worth and you are going to get a funny look.  Or a fist in the face.

I love the Army.  I really do.  They leave all kinds of serviceable gear lying around for Marines to use in combat.

But there is something I just don't get.

Their fashion sense - or rather - what sense it makes that someone gets to wear a pair of authorized uniform boots ONLY if they have jumped through a hoop or something.

I like the Original Post, but it comes from a place within the Army culture that is foreign to my experience as a jarhead.

You army guys can tank, but seriously?

Shoes do not make the man.

19Z5XD3_Cav_Sct #33 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 03:35

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Old school Bradley Cav Scout (now 19Z5XD3/2S). Got my Spurs at Ft. Hood in '95 on one of the infamous Spur Rides. Distinguished at Table VIII twice. Although we didn't have a formal ceremony for 'earning' your boots, it was understood that you only wore them if you achieved Distinguished. Spent 1991 to 2000 in Div Cav, so got very familiar with tankers. And even though we always gave each other hell, we never let anybody mess with our DATs. :Smile-angry: .


"Scouts Out!"
"GarryOwen"

9nines #34 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 03:42

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View PostBfredsys, on Aug 30 2012 - 01:33, said:

Since I am  a retired U.S. Army Tanker  ( Iron Knights B Company 4th Bn 66th Armor) of 24 years or so. I have kicked this very thought around.  To earn your boots, you must fight to earn. Please don't ripped me up and down...  But, running TT VI or TCPC won't just cut it. We don't need set enagagements ( Oh I do miss that Widow Maker enagagement). We must FiGHT to EARN.  Since every tank has a wingman, I think we should do a 5 on 2. That is right, 5 bad guys vs you and your wingman. You would need to complete 3 missions; Defense, Offense and Movement to contact ( AKA encounter style).We will need to kick MM to curb for this, the tiers will need to be exact. Then you have to earn your boots for each tier starting lets say 6+. Now, we want the team of 5 to be tough, it should not be a bunch of REMFs. The team of 5 should have at least two season (already Earned Boots Qualified) and three others. After the completion of 3 missions they are EBQ.  The maps, we should use? Thats is up to you guys. My two cents, make it random between 5 maps ( but, I believe that the starting points for both teams MUST BE RANDOM.If not, it would be the same old same old) . I cant stress enough, this should be very challenging... and very fun and a welcome change of pace.

I think this would be fun for all classes and branches even those Arty guys, They can bring thier scout friend T-50-2.


Just an old Tanker with bad knees lol ...


This is my personal opinion also.We could do this for a combat set of boots and say a firing range such as the infantry rifleman challenge.Use designated targets set at varying ranges from 50-500m's with some moving in random movements.Would not need to kill but could judge as most damaging shots/most penetrations.This could be a Master Gunner set of boots.

As JT said,make a set amount of battles to complete the trials.
2000- First trial
3000- Second trial
5000- Third trial
10000- Final trial

This way,only experienced tankers would be allowed to fight for the boots and say a special cammo or medal even.Don't put gold in the award,that would just ruin it IMO due to the thinking of "Hey,I just got my tanker boots,Im part of a privileged few".

Wuerger #35 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 04:21

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Thanks JT111 :)

I think that awards would be good, forget the boots as from Chieftains experience they could be hard to come by, not to mention a little expensive.

But the "special camo" or how about a badge/insignia for your tank as that is coming in V 8.0 it could be easy to implement along with some Gold that would make it more .... attractive to participants.

Edited by Wuerger, Aug 30 2012 - 04:21.


Cusimanse #36 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 04:34

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Sir, awesome article, but you have some points incorrect.  

In the 80's, Tanker Boots were authorized as soon as you completed MOS training; I vividly remember my trip to the PX at Fort Knox to buy mine in 1984.  Where this thing about needing to qualify came from I have no idea.  If you can't qualify, why are you in a tank?

Even in Tank Table VIII, the amount of time you were allowed to kill your targets was based on how long it would take that target to kill you.  The scenarios were strictly scripted, and all of that was taken into account in the scoring tables for each engagement.  Table VI now lets the Battalion and Company Mike Golf's tailor their own Gunnery, based off of what they feel their unit needs most.

As for Crew-cuts, the little irritating ones you reference are just that.  The safety ones are the ones that could ruin someone's day along with your score.

Last iteration of the Widow-maker had four tanks, the last one was just a turret, on a 30 second delay.

For those who think I am picking nits, you've never seen a tanker arguing about a crew-cut.  :D

The_Chieftain #37 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 04:57

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View PostBoreSight, on Aug 30 2012 - 02:36, said:

This 'Blue Torpedo' is for you Chieftain!
https://encrypted-tb...uoTV-x-otntDE-c

I am happy to report, I have never fired one. I follow checklists, and have not yet forgotten to remove the manual safety on the 25mm!

View PostSpcCifone19k, on Aug 30 2012 - 02:59, said:

In 2009 I earned mine in Korea C co 1/72 AR, 2nd ID. Why do you want them Added ? You consider your self a "tanker" for playing an online game...........

Calm down. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they go down the local PX and buy set of boots just because they completed some task on a computer game. Virtual boots: Digital, a picture of them in the service record, same as the Boelter's or Bilotte's medal.

View PostPanzerXO, on Aug 30 2012 - 03:25, said:

Tanker boots.

I will give you a minute to think about that.

Tanker.  Boots.

As if footwear had anything to do with tanking.

Ask any Marine 18xx whether he needs a pair of special boots to do his job or prove his worth and you are going to get a funny look.  Or a fist in the face.

Actually, it does have something to do with tanking. If the Marine 18XX doesn't want to wear them, that's his lookout. Now, granted, the Marines are fairly unique in being a ground fighting force which wears no distinguishing features at all. From the Italian Bersaglieri feathers to the German Gerbisjaeger hat to the British Army stable belt, or the Irish Army glengarry, visible 'unit' or 'trade' pride is the norm. If it's important to the Marines that 'every Marine is a rifleman' to the detrement of all else, down to not wearing unit patches, then so be it, but I don't think you'd expect a Marine F/A-18 pilot to wear the same gear as a rifleman, because his job is different. Whether it offends Corps pride or not, a tanker's job is different as well, and the various accoutrements which commonly identify tankers (black berets, short jackets and tanker boots) exist because they are better in practice for a tanker than the other options common to the infantry or most other branches. Now, sure, he can wear his infantry combat boots in the tank, and after four hours sitting inside it maybe loosen the laces a bit to help his circulation, and take particular care that they don't snag on anything outside the turret basket, but why not wear boots that are better suited for the job to begin with?

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Their fashion sense - or rather - what sense it makes that someone gets to wear a pair of authorized uniform boots ONLY if they have jumped through a hoop or something.

As I said, (and the chap above seems to agree with), if you're a 19K, from my perspective, you can wear the boots. Even in the case of units which require a Table VI qualification for wearing them, that's pretty much an academic restriction as every unit is going to shoot a gunnery soon enough, barring the occasional reserve unit for one reason or another.

turretmonkey #38 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 05:21

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View PostLordYak, on Aug 30 2012 - 02:49, said:

I got my boot tank table 8 in 2004 november US army 19k
1-35 baumholder germany C co top tank, top tank platoon, top tank company that year

:)

955/1000

makes me proud

postion driver

1 year later
was gunner shot a 950/1000

scores still go to 1000 fyi

Very nice, I was in A Co 1-35 there a couple years after you :)

The_Chieftain #39 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 05:32

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View PostCusimanse, on Aug 30 2012 - 04:34, said:

Sir, awesome article, but you have some points incorrect.  

In the 80's, Tanker Boots were authorized as soon as you completed MOS training; I vividly remember my trip to the PX at Fort Knox to buy mine in 1984.  Where this thing about needing to qualify came from I have no idea.  If you can't qualify, why are you in a tank?

Interestingly, the best set of tanker boots I got were actually a sort of 'subsidised issue' from Fort Knox. I paid $20 at one of the issueing warehouses near CIF, the things had internal linings and were far more comfortable than anything I've had since which are simple, unlined leather. However, much though I'm not a fan of the 'must qualify to wear' rule, as you can see from the responses above, some traditions seem to have come up somewhere (Only being authorised to wear if qualified 'distinguish' as in Chaskinkaid's unit is way to strict, IMO. Appropriate avatar, though).

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Even in Tank Table VIII, the amount of time you were allowed to kill your targets was based on how long it would take that target to kill you.  The scenarios were strictly scripted, and all of that was taken into account in the scoring tables for each engagement.

Not as much, though. For example, if you were engaging degraded (I happen to have a copy of 3-20.12/AUG2005 next to me here), you were given an extra 10 seconds to engage. That is a function of your offensive capability, not your vulnerability. If you compare the methodology listed in the 2005 manual with the 2009 manual, the 2009 manual lists the pass/fail time as quoted in the original post: A function of the ability of the threat to kill you, absent all else. The 2005 manual, however, states that it factors Ph, (the average firing tank must have a 50%Ph) and the number of rounds allotted must allow at least a 70% chance of completing the engagement. The 100 point time is based on the top 25% of Abrams performance in the 2005 manual, but there is no such acommodation listed in the 2009 manual. Now, granted, the fail (70-point) time for both is supposedly based on the ability of the target to kill the Abrams, but I can't help but be suspicious of this given that in the 2005 manual an M1 is given more time to service the targets than an M1A2 to garner a pass: That would indicate that an M1A2 is more vulnerable than an M1. And finally, you also have the fact that in the 2005 manual, you would start being penalised if you stayed in the turret-down position any longer than 15 seconds, no matter how quickly you could deal with the targets once you exposed yourself. Today, you can stay turret down for 40 of the 50 seconds, expose and kill in five, and you max the engagement.

Quote

Last iteration of the Widow-maker had four tanks, the last one was just a turret, on a 30 second delay.

Was there a manual in between 2005 and 2009? In the 05 manual, B4 is three stationary tanks from the defence, NBC conditions, four rounds TPCSDS.

Quote

For those who think I am picking nits, you've never seen a tanker arguing about a crew-cut.  :D

Heh. They hated me, I brought my own FM in with me to the AAR shack. I still have it (as evidenced by the fact that it's within arm's reach of my computer at home)

tankman221 #40 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 05:37

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I am a big fan of tanksbut never heard of boots to go with them :Smile_amazed:




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