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Earning Boots


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Killertomato #41 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 06:13

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Chieftain, what's so special about tanker boots? Does that looping strap thing do anything?

The_Chieftain #42 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 06:17

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They stop the boots from falling off your feet

Killertomato #43 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 06:33

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Aug 30 2012 - 06:17, said:

They stop the boots from falling off your feet

Why do you use 'em instead of laces?

SteveStevenson #44 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 07:27

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View PostKillertomato, on Aug 30 2012 - 06:33, said:

Why do you use 'em instead of laces?

Laces can melt. Tanks tend to burn when hit, due to the large amount of flamables they contain (Ammo, fuel, crew...). The leather strap and buckle are more resistant to melting than the nylon cord of a bootlace.

SteveStevenson #45 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 07:33

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View PostPanzerXO, on Aug 30 2012 - 03:25, said:

Tanker boots.

I will give you a minute to think about that.

Tanker.  Boots.

As if footwear had anything to do with tanking.

Ask any Marine 18xx whether he needs a pair of special boots to do his job or prove his worth and you are going to get a funny look.  Or a fist in the face.

I love the Army.  I really do.  They leave all kinds of serviceable gear lying around for Marines to use in combat.

But there is something I just don't get.

Their fashion sense - or rather - what sense it makes that someone gets to wear a pair of authorized uniform boots ONLY if they have jumped through a hoop or something.

I like the Original Post, but it comes from a place within the Army culture that is foreign to my experience as a jarhead.

You army guys can tank, but seriously?

Shoes do not make the man.

Since you're a Marine, I'll use small words. :Smile_trollface-3:

Tanker boots are not "authorized" or "unauthorized" depending on quals. That much is tradition. The boot itself replaces the nylon laces, which can melt in a fire, with a leather strap and buckle that is more resistant to that sort of thing.

They aren't as good for dismounted ops (since the laces hold them tighter on your feet than the straps do), but as a tanker you really aren't concerned with that when you're tracking around causing mayhem.

Hayzle #46 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 07:50

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View PostSteveStevenson, on Aug 30 2012 - 07:27, said:

Laces can melt. Tanks tend to burn when hit, due to the large amount of flamables they contain (Ammo, fuel, crew...). The leather strap and buckle are more resistant to melting than the nylon cord of a bootlace.
  This is good to know, thanks guys good info :)
hah, thought tankers wore flip-flops (j/k) lol

Khaosbringer #47 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 08:30

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View PostBoreSight, on Aug 30 2012 - 02:36, said:

This 'Blue Torpedo' is for you Chieftain!
https://encrypted-tb...uoTV-x-otntDE-c

You know that blue is a training round right?

View PostPanzerXO, on Aug 30 2012 - 03:25, said:

Tanker boots.

I will give you a minute to think about that.

Tanker.  Boots.

As if footwear had anything to do with tanking.

Ask any Marine 18xx whether he needs a pair of special boots to do his job or prove his worth and you are going to get a funny look.  Or a fist in the face.

I love the Army.  I really do.  They leave all kinds of serviceable gear lying around for Marines to use in combat.

But there is something I just don't get.

Their fashion sense - or rather - what sense it makes that someone gets to wear a pair of authorized uniform boots ONLY if they have jumped through a hoop or something.

I like the Original Post, but it comes from a place within the Army culture that is foreign to my experience as a jarhead.

You army guys can tank, but seriously?

Shoes do not make the man.

Tanker boots were implemented in large part because of the extra traction they gave you on the tanks slopes and the possibility of getting your laces caught in the turret ring, as well as the to help prevent having the strings melt. I earned mine at Camp Casey Korea as a Member of C co 2/72 2id. My first gunnery I ended up loading for three separate tanks. (2.7 second sabot's tends to get you requested when a crew spot needs filled.) I later went on earned them in combat as part of 1/35 armor in Germany. (OIF 05/06). I think there a great tradition. It really seems to help make guys straight out of OSUT feel like a part of their platoon. I'm all for seeing it implemented in game.

Could make it an event, say every four months or so, giving guys a chance to run lanes against stationary targets, and implementing a scoring system to help determine if your a go/no. I'd recommend that instead of letting people run their own tanks, you chose a set tank for everyone to use, that way it ensures an equal chance of earning their boots. (I recommend bringing the m1a2 Abrams for this and this alone, but I'm a bit biased lol.) Just my two cents.

Edited by Khaosbringer, Aug 30 2012 - 08:35.


SteveStevenson #48 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 08:46

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View PostKhaosbringer, on Aug 30 2012 - 08:30, said:

You know that blue is a training round right?

Yeah, I believe that was the point. It's a 25mm TPT round. The Chieftain and I shot those at Brad gunnery in January at Ft. Irwin.

Khaosbringer #49 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 08:58

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View PostSteveStevenson, on Aug 30 2012 - 08:46, said:

Yeah, I believe that was the point. It's a 25mm TPT round. The Chieftain and I shot those at Brad gunnery in January at Ft. Irwin.
Ah I apologize, I didn't understand the reference. Guess I sorta stepped into an inside joke.

Edited by Khaosbringer, Aug 30 2012 - 09:12.


SteveStevenson #50 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 09:06

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No biggie.

PrOLEON #51 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 09:21

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Very informative article again. I do believe developing such a training medal/achievement as there is huge division in the player skill as to my personal observation in the game
and even for the players looking to improve beside an "advice"( or staring at the status page)  there is  no option for improvement.
Long story short after sifting trough the previous posts i think the training need to be separated based on few categories

TANK ROLE ( as in game)
heavy armor/medium/light/TD/arty for each BOTH system you described above should determine the score
for instance heavy armor tank would be more scored on the how fast they kill ( before they run out of HP), while a medium/light will need to move/shoot more often
and based on the diversity of the tank roles in the game( role not TYPE ) using only one of the system will be insufficient while a combination of the two will cover it all

MARKSMANSHIP (hits+ penetration)
I envision malinovka map with the tested player on the building side with a few tanks(not just one type, but still in close tier aka. primary threat/pray for the tank of choice)
positioned on all 3 levels top of the hill ( starting position for standard battle) so they have
a good amount of targets to choose all angled with different parts exposed (front/side/rear on top) 15-45 degree angled tanks on the hill ( hull down)
to show the player knowledge of angles/sloped armor, few turret only exposed, and of course hull up ( as simulating an advance maneuver)
and on this setting they are given limited amount of shells where he have to chose the best targets to shoot where the current penetration/hit system kick in
then u add an extra bonus for each pen. on highest treat ( do include tanks with different HP, " do you shoot the one hit kill or the *big bang* tank " problem )

MANEUVER
A few low HP tanks that the player have to RAM or Avoid ramming ( based on tank role)
(i see province best for that test, small winding roads with a lot of elevation to emphasis on tank weight/track friction/maneuverability of the tank driven )
with a few capture zones with different ammounts of points given
player is scored based on how fast he captures ( can he drive to the hardest to reach point and win the fastest or he will settle for another way)
with of course the scoring is set in a way to reduce the time for capture by using the harder point with deduction based on the current "penalty system" for ramming friendly vehicles
don't forget to place trap's ( places where it seems they can pass but they actually can't  :Smile_trollface-3: )
I have alot more ideas (scout/TD/arty training) but would like to hear some feedback on the above 1st before i start making walls of text :Smile_teethhappy:

thundermg1 #52 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 10:57

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View PostVengeance6, on Aug 30 2012 - 01:29, said:

Earned my boots after TT VIII and TT XII (top platoon in 2-12 CAV, 1CD 2003). Got the spurs in Iraq (melted down .50 cal ammo brass). Stetson is on my wall. Wore that after designated "most lethal platoon" in 2BDE at NTC.Still have my black boots ones shined and in the closet in case we ever go back to good looking uniforms.


An idea I would like is gun rings. Take the max kills in one battle (not per tank but overall) and whatever tank you are driving would have them on it. Would be a good little pride thing.

Really, you dont say...........Hmmmmm, whats my player name...........

Razven #53 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 11:39

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Hey Chief, since you're telling us about all this interesting stuff, are there particularly interesting stories or memorable moments you'd like to share?

PanzerXO #54 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 13:07

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Aug 30 2012 - 04:57, said:


Actually, it does have something to do with tanking. If the Marine 18XX doesn't want to wear them, that's his lookout. Now, granted, the Marines are fairly unique in being a ground fighting force which wears no distinguishing features at all. From the Italian Bersaglieri feathers to the German Gerbisjaeger hat to the British Army stable belt, or the Irish Army glengarry, visible 'unit' or 'trade' pride is the norm. If it's important to the Marines that 'every Marine is a rifleman' to the detrement of all else, down to not wearing unit patches, then so be it, but I don't think you'd expect a Marine F/A-18 pilot to wear the same gear as a rifleman, because his job is different. Whether it offends Corps pride or not, a tanker's job is different as well, and the various accoutrements which commonly identify tankers (black berets, short jackets and tanker boots) exist because they are better in practice for a tanker than the other options common to the infantry or most other branches. Now, sure, he can wear his infantry combat boots in the tank, and after four hours sitting inside it maybe loosen the laces a bit to help his circulation, and take particular care that they don't snag on anything outside the turret basket, but why not wear boots that are better suited for the job to begin with?



As I said, (and the chap above seems to agree with), if you're a 19K, from my perspective, you can wear the boots. Even in the case of units which require a Table VI qualification for wearing them, that's pretty much an academic restriction as every unit is going to shoot a gunnery soon enough, barring the occasional reserve unit for one reason or another.

It's the arbitrary restriction that I am poking fun at.  Marine tankers, like our fighter pilots, wear role / mission specific clothing all the time.  Whenever I was on my tank, I wore (like the Army) a Nomex jumpsuit and leather boots, for the same reasons you describe.

It's the off the tank shenanigans (like telling a school trained, MOS qualified tanker he cannot wear some good piece of gear until he jumps through one more hoop) that we don't get.

We jarheads are admittedly austere in our traditions, but the "every Marine is a rifleman" tradition is beneficial in practice.  Just ask survivors of Capt. King / Pvt. Jessica Lynch's unit whether a bit more command focus on individual weapons and war fighting skills might have helped.

But that is a discussion for a different day.

Anyway, since a wall of text doesn't convey tone, I hope you know my critique is just a friendly jab at a sister service!

Semper.

The_Chieftain #55 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 15:04

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Quote

Ah I apologize, I didn't understand the reference.

Don't worry about it. They're called torpedoes because if you fail to set the gun on manual "fire", the whole cartridge just gets shot out the front of the turret a few feet.

Quote

Really, you dont say...........Hmmmmm, whats my player name........... 

I'll get my popcorn.

Razven, more stories will come in time...

GoodGameXXX #56 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 16:29

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Idea for a tank table:

Map: Malinkova
Targets: light tanks (tier 4 through 10) equipped with all sorts of speed enhancing goodies

Competitors follow a prescibed route at mid-speed or fastest speed and engage pop-up targets and moving rail targets. Competitors are only allowed to stop for 4 seconds to fire on a target, and then have to move to the next way point (but can fire at previous targets while continuing movement).

M256 #57 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 16:31

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When I went through AOB back in 84 we all trotted ourselves over to US Cav for our tanker boots..I had mine converted from basic combat boots, I don't even remember if you could buy them off the shelf. I never heard anything at all about "earning" them. One of the big status symbols of the era was to own a pair of German tanker boots, IIRC they were much nicer.


And for what it's worth Chieftain both black and tan versions are still available..but it's sad the vendors were clueless..

cyborg7th #58 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 16:38

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Best boot ever.  I've owned a quite a few pairs over the years.  While I wasn't a tanker myself in the military, I did serve in support of a mechanised Inf unit and learned how great they are.  Since getting out, I've gotten my supply from U.S. Cavalry if anyone is interested in buying a pair their prices are decent.

In-game tanker boots... how about minimum 2k games played with 80% or higher hit ratio.

Edited by cyborg7th, Aug 30 2012 - 17:08.


Joel47 #59 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 17:33

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View Postcyborg7th, on Aug 30 2012 - 16:38, said:

how about minimum 2k games played with 80% or higher hit ratio.

I don't think hit ratio is the way to go.  That would encourage people not to take iffy shots.  Sure, accuracy is good, but since tossing a round into a suspicious-looking bush because nothing else is lit will probably result in a miss, someone trying to get their boots won't do it -- possibly missing that passively-scouting light tank.  Or firing approach shots from your charging medium tank -- same thing.  It's also unduly penalizing to people who play a lot of artillery (such as myself), though I suspect many wouldn't consider penalizing arty players to be a bad thing... :Smile_glasses:

cyborg7th #60 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 17:43

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To a point I agree with you, but I'm thinking in simple terms for the game.  A lot in this thread have tried to design complex exercises to mimic actual qualifications that just wouldn't play out in-game.  Maybe lower the hit ratio and increase the game played total so it takes more time to earn it - which would also help balance off the low hit rate of arty *which I play a lot of too.

It can't be too hard to achieve either, every tanker 'earns' their boots at some point so in-game should be the same.

For the record - I never wore them while in service since I also didn't 'earn' them not being a tanker myself.

Edited by cyborg7th, Aug 30 2012 - 17:47.





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