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Earning Boots


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Wolfpack #61 Posted Aug 30 2012 - 22:08

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Could make the ratio tank specific.  I play a bit of everything, tend to hit more in my stationary TDs than I do in my lights/Meds/Arty because I firmly believe that a round left in the turret at the end of the game is a round wasted.  Those bushes were looking at me funny...

jackal40 #62 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 00:09

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View PostPanzerXO, on Aug 30 2012 - 03:25, said:

Tanker boots.

I will give you a minute to think about that.

Tanker.  Boots.

As if footwear had anything to do with tanking.

Ask any Marine 18xx whether he needs a pair of special boots to do his job or prove his worth and you are going to get a funny look.  Or a fist in the face.

I love the Army.  I really do.  They leave all kinds of serviceable gear lying around for Marines to use in combat.

But there is something I just don't get.

Their fashion sense - or rather - what sense it makes that someone gets to wear a pair of authorized uniform boots ONLY if they have jumped through a hoop or something.

I like the Original Post, but it comes from a place within the Army culture that is foreign to my experience as a jarhead.

You army guys can tank, but seriously?

Shoes do not make the man.
You do know that Marine Corps tankers are trained by Army instructors at the US Army Armor Center? As a former instructor there, I can assure you the only difference between Marine and Army tankers is the service tag they wear on their uniform.

mikel1967 #63 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 00:55

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Content removed.


Non-constructive post
Warning issued
~Raizei

The_Chieftain #64 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 01:14

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I'm sure there is some relevance between that post and this thread, but I'm not seeing it.

adam_acreman #65 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 02:44

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You can also still get them on ranger joe.com

SkunkButt #66 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 09:45

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View PostGoodGameXXX, on Aug 30 2012 - 16:29, said:

Idea for a tank table:

Map: Malinkova
Targets: light tanks (tier 4 through 10) equipped with all sorts of speed enhancing goodies

Competitors follow a prescibed route at mid-speed or fastest speed and engage pop-up targets and moving rail targets. Competitors are only allowed to stop for 4 seconds to fire on a target, and then have to move to the next way point (but can fire at previous targets while continuing movement).

For overall accuracy, use an open map with  firing positions every 250m.  Course of fire is five individual targets.
First course; transverse leading - Target moves in a straight line from one side of the firing position to the other at a constant speed.  Like skeet shooting - the earlier the hit the better.  Tracking (halting) or ammo racking (instakill) garner additional points.
Second Course; Jinking - As before; target crosses from one side to the other, alternating direction by 45 degrees left and right and maintaining a set distance between jinks.
Third Course; Random Jinking - Target moves freely left to right on a completely random course.
Fourth Course - Target has available soft cover and attempts to approach unseen.  Points for spotting and eliminating the target... preferably without being spotted in turn until damage is delivered on target.
Fifth course - Same as third, but with both soft and hard cover for the target.

Each time the 'shooter' is scored on number of shots, hits, and damage.  They do not move.

Second level; five courses of fire, multiple vehicles.
First course - simple scout elimination, as above, but shooter has a 'clock' timing from the moment they are 'spotted' to lay fire on target and relocate.  Failure to relocate in the given time (5-10 seconds) means shooter is damaged.
Second course - Scout and secondary vehicle (within sight distance of shooter but not 'visible').  Shooter can A: attempt to eliminate scout and relocate before second vehicle fires, or remain in concealment until fired upon, and attempt to engage secondary (higher threat) target.
Third course - Double vehicle approach.  Engage and eliminate vehicle by threat assessment (defined by course commander), while maintaining cover and maneuvering to engage.
Fourth course - As above, with soft cover for targets.
Fifth course - hard cover for targets.

In this course points are given for damage, as well as remaining concealed, maintaining a position disallowing return fire, and damage done to target vehicles.

19Z5XD3_Cav_Sct #67 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 10:02

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How about this idea for a reward: for all the rewards that a tank earns (sharpshooter, sniper, etc.) they should get it painted on their tank, similar to airplanes used to track # of kills. So if a single tank gets "Top Gun", multiple times (say 10), then he would get a Top Gun painted on. Then for every 10 he gets another. Thoughts?

Edited by chaskincaid, Aug 31 2012 - 10:10.


19Z5XD3_Cav_Sct #68 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 10:09

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View PostKillertomato, on Aug 30 2012 - 06:33, said:

Why do you use 'em instead of laces?

LOL....some would say it's because tankers, aka DATs (Dumb Ass Tankers), are so stupid they can't tie their boots! :P

Lagometer #69 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 11:24

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In Vietnam, tanker boots were popular with helicopter crews. They were all leather with no fabric or plastic. As such, they didn't melt or burn in a survivable crash. Polyester and nylon were verboten with crews.

shockwave_125 #70 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 18:19

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This is a GREAT Idea, it would make the game more fun for those of us who use tanks on a daily basis in real life and it would give those who havent the chance to see what we really do in combat.

PanzerXO #71 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 18:30

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View Postjackal40, on Aug 31 2012 - 00:09, said:

You do know that Marine Corps tankers are trained by Army instructors at the US Army Armor Center? As a former instructor there, I can assure you the only difference between Marine and Army tankers is the service tag they wear on their uniform.
Been through the school.  Actually, our enlisted guys are (were, when the school was still at Knox - it is no longer there, btw) trained in Marine companies by Marine instructors - with some overlap.  Certain classes get Army instructors, others are taught by the Marines.

Frankly, I have no beef with the enlisted instruction.  They (both Army and Marine Corps Master Gunners) are excellent at their craft and do a good job with the soldiers and Marines.

~Deleted~

The biggest eye opener for me came at the end of the school, when at graduation, an Army 3 star described "The key to success is effective training and reliance upon Small Unit Leaders."  The irony here, is that he was talking about Lieutenant Colonels.  The huge gap between Marine & Army approaches is that to us, small unit leaders are corporals.

The Marines fight and win battles, the Army wins wars.  We are terrible at Battalion and higher staff functions, compared to the Army.  But at the company level...

Edited by PanzerXO, Aug 31 2012 - 19:12.


Duty_Remains #72 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 18:54

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Being an Combat Engineer (12B then 21B after they redesignated MOS') I never got to play around with an M1 Abrams but my real life experiences (specifically) the "berm drill" have been a big help in this game.

I think the idea of an in game set of qualification tables would be a great addition to the game and a real boon to the community.  Also much as the early sources The_Chieftain referenced suggested using live MG ammo in training, we are in the unique position of being able to shoot "live" ammunition at each other with no unpleasant consequences due to the fact that this is a virtual experience.

Anyways, I'd like to re-emphasize that a think a standardized gunnery experience would be a good thing for community giving us a common standard to which we can all relate.  Whether this unlocks an achievement or not is of little importance to me.

captcouv #73 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 19:23

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Posted Image

Good article.  Being a grunt, I always looked at boots ANYWHERE I went.  Only in the waning years of my service was the US Gubmint finally ISSUING satisfactory boots as a standard.  

Anyway, “Driver, tracks, troops. Drive and adjust!” - after arriving in Saudi Arabia for Desert Storm, I had my (Weapons) company dig several fighting holes for the various weapon systems and individual fighting holes.  Then I had each of my Marine occupy those holes while a M60A3 and a LVTP-7 drove directly over the Marines.  The treadheads loved it, but it proved to my Marines that they could survive a direct attack by the Iraqi T55s and T62s - and fight back with appropriate explosives, LAWs and SMAWs.  Those leathernecks were REALLY fired up after that training exercise!

s/f
Couv

Blackhorse_Six_ #74 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 21:26

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View PostM256, on Aug 30 2012 - 16:31, said:

When I went through AOB back in 84 we all trotted ourselves over to US Cav for our tanker boots..I had mine converted from basic combat boots, I don't even remember if you could buy them off the shelf. I never heard anything at all about "earning" them. One of the big status symbols of the era was to own a pair of German tanker boots, IIRC they were much nicer.

Yep ... Strap-on your tanker-boots, zip-up your Baumholder, and God help you if you lose your CEOI ...

I had tanker boots before I went to Basic Training ... You wouldn't belive the ass-chewing I got when I wore them there ... Of course, I had to put them away for awhile, but as word got around that I had worked at the factory, I became something of a celebrity and was allowed to wear them again in the company area during the last week of OSUT ... I cannot remember ever having to "earn" the right to wear them after Basic ...

Blackhorse_Six_ #75 Posted Aug 31 2012 - 21:42

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View PostPanzerXO, on Aug 31 2012 - 18:30, said:

The Marines fight and win battles, the Army wins wars.  We are terrible at Battalion and higher staff functions, compared to the Army.  But at the company level...

Well said ... When I went thru my Lieutenants and Captains courses in particular, Marines were prominent as instructors and as students.

One thing I've always admired about the Marines is that your daily uniform parameters are more relaxed in the field, and no-one's giving you a ration of shit about how your neck scarf is black vs brown when staying warm and healthy is more important than your specific appearance. Unless you're dressed like Elvis, it's no big deal.

While we're about it, I feel compelled to add that while I've seen some rag-bag Army units and individuals (even among junior officers), I have never encountered a ragbag Marine. My Ol' Gaffer was a Navy BT for 30, and having lived the middle twenty of it, I wasn't quite so enthused about the prospect of active duty ... During the period in which I shopped around for a good Reserve tank unit, The Marine 2nd Tank Bat was high on my list, but about 16 hours of drive-time away. I started-out in a local Guard unit and found that I was capable of more ...

BTW, folks ... I never bought a pair of American-made Tanker Boots that I didn't have to re-sole immediately - they all came stock with dance-floor slick-soles on them ... the Panzer Boots were definitely the best, field-ready and comfortable right from the get-go.

:Smile_honoring:

Vollketten #76 Posted Sep 01 2012 - 01:05

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I love those old training ideas. I used to have a copy of Kings Regulations either 1901 or 1907 I cant remeber which but it did say for musketry practice..

"Soldiers on punishment detail can wear fatigues and be utilised for target practice"

I assume it meant they could assist it sighting or training rather than being shot at.....but then discipline in a mans army was a tough thing.
You didn't want to **** up too many times if you were going to get shot for it.

I'm just glad my old RSM never read that.......

Edited by Vollketten, Sep 01 2012 - 01:05.


RobSmith #77 Posted Sep 01 2012 - 02:11

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As far as an award is concerned, if you <really> wanted to make this an achievement reserved for the best of the best, you could make it something that only someone whom received "Ace tanker" for every (non-premium) vehicle in the game or something along those lines. This would ensure that the award would only be handed to the most experienced, dedicated players (takes thousands of battles to unlock every vehicle) as well as those whom actually perform consistently.

Khaosbringer #78 Posted Sep 01 2012 - 07:09

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View PostRobSmith, on Sep 01 2012 - 02:11, said:

As far as an award is concerned, if you <really> wanted to make this an achievement reserved for the best of the best, you could make it something that only someone whom received "Ace tanker" for every (non-premium) vehicle in the game or something along those lines. This would ensure that the award would only be handed to the most experienced, dedicated players (takes thousands of battles to unlock every vehicle) as well as those whom actually perform consistently.

This sorta goes against the spirit of tanker boots. They weren't utilized as a way of showing who was best. Instead they were more of a right of passage. In the platoons where I earned mine, they were presented to you after you either qualified a tank table VIII, or went into combat as part of that unit. In my company, they were traditionally bought for the new guys by their higher ups, ( usually the gunner or tc bought them), and they were given to the soldier's during that steak dinner( or rather what passes for steak in the army) that ya got just after finishing up their first gunnery qual. Top tank was a completely different honor, with a different reward. In 2/72 armor in Korea, the reward for top tank was a plaque with your crews name on it placed on the front of a tank that sat outside of battalion.

Duty_Remains #79 Posted Sep 01 2012 - 08:22

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View PostKhaosbringer, on Sep 01 2012 - 07:09, said:

This sorta goes against the spirit of tanker boots. They weren't utilized as a way of showing who was best. Instead they were more of a right of passage. In the platoons where I earned mine, they were presented to you after you either qualified a tank table VIII, or went into combat as part of that unit. In my company, they were traditionally bought for the new guys by their higher ups, ( usually the gunner or tc bought them), and they were given to the soldier's during that steak dinner( or rather what passes for steak in the army) that ya got just after finishing up their first gunnery qual. Top tank was a completely different honor, with a different reward. In 2/72 armor in Korea, the reward for top tank was a plaque with your crews name on it placed on the front of a tank that sat outside of battalion.

Deuce Tank?  There was a time when my CSM (2nd Eng) was always trying to start a bar fight with that unit... and my company (Bravo Beast) supported them in the field.

That made for some awkward situations.  Fortunately what happened in TDC, stayed in TDC (for the most part anyway).

Blackhorse_00_ #80 Posted Sep 01 2012 - 15:20

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Folks, We just want a basic, everyday, generic tank range that will teach the core concepts of tactics and gunnery. We need nothing fancier than that, so let's start there. The "Boots" discussion is just a means of bringing us to the core need ... a Tank Range Training Room. As for the "Boots" qual ... Perhaps it should be the be-all, end-all award ... the final badge for having all the others, and having played all the tanks, including artillery. Perhaps even three different grades like Black, Silver, and Golden to commemorate "career" progress ... But let's get focused on the drumbeat to establish the Training Room, first.

Sometimes, the Primary Objective is masked as the Secondary ...




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