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should the developers add the 90mm gun to the M4A3E8 Sherman tank?


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Poll: should the developers add the 90mm gun to the M4A3E8 Sherman tank? (1379 members have cast votes)

Should the developers add the 90mm M3 gun to the M4A3E8 Sherman tank

  1. YES (1151 votes [83.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 83.47%

  2. NO (228 votes [16.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.53%

add the 105mm howitzer gun to the M4A3E8 Sherman tank

  1. YES (925 votes [76.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.26%

  2. NO (288 votes [23.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.74%

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zmeul #1 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 19:36

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U.S. Ordnance's 90mm M3 gun mouted on M4A3 was under consideration but they realized it would delay the T26 production(a.k.a. M26 Pershing), the trials were stoped in april 1944

Photograph of the single prototype tank built by Chrysler in the summer of 1944 that had a 90mm gun T26 turret mounted on an M4A3 chassis. The T26 and M4 tanks had the same turret ring.
http://upload.wikime..._M4_chassis.jpg

also, the US sent M4A3 tanks to UK to be fitted with the 17-pounder gun, 100 of them were completed by may 1945

loganov #2 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 19:49

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Yes, they should.  The Germans have the fake PzKpfw IV with L/70.  At least they built 1 Sherman with the T26 turret.  This should be in the game...period.

Cheers,

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Feindfeuer #3 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 19:55

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The M3A3E8 is a Tier 6 tank, so it's german equivalent would be the VK3601(H) and VK3001(H)both beeing able to mount the 7.5cm L/70 and 8.8cm L56. On the russian side we have the T34/85 with it's 85mm D5T and the 100mm D10T. The 90mm M3 seems a bit more powerful than the armament of it's contenders but with the american tree looking a bit more like 'weaker armor'&'powerful guns' this would probably fit right it.

Also it was realy possible to mount that weapon in that turret on that vehicle, unlike the Schmallturm on the PzKpfwIV, which would have overburdened the suspension and rendered the tank immobile. I therefore voted yes, though it might be too much work to remodel the 'additional' turret for the sherman and the better turret armor on the T26 turret might hurt balance. Tough the turrets of the VK4502(P) also have different stats from that of the normal Königstiger, so why not tune down the armor values of the T26 turret on the 'Easy Eight' too.

zmeul #4 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 20:08

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I'm not saying to add the T26 turret as an upgrade (that would be quite an overkill) but at least have the 90mm M3 gun as an upgrade option
much like the T-44 has the 122mm D25-44 option, the T-44-122 prototype

grefin #5 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 20:17

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My opinion, it's fine as it is. With this gun would be OP. It's good fast and agile tank with nice "machine gun" :)

EmGee42 #6 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 20:34

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Israelies used Super Shermans with 90mm guns for a very long time after WWII. I don't see why this shouldn't be available in game.

Alexhatesraidcall #7 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 20:45

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View Postgrefin, on Nov 04 2010 - 20:17, said:

My opinion, it's fine as it is. With this gun would be OP. It's good fast and agile tank with nice "machine gun" :)
Like the t-44 with the 122mm IS gun isn't OP that gun wasn't even ever FITTED on a t-44 so i think it is perfectly fine to ATLEAST give them a 90mm!

loganov #8 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 21:00

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View PostEmGee42, on Nov 04 2010 - 20:34, said:

Israelies used Super Shermans with 90mm guns for a very long time after WWII. I don't see why this shouldn't be available in game.

Actually, they didn't.  They used them with the wartime 75s, 76s, and short 105s.  At least one used a scavenged Krupp 75 in a goofy setup that was better than nothing.  Then they updated them with French long 75s (variant of the Panther's L/70) and later French low-pressure 105s.  Finally, some were sold to Chile with Israeli super-high-velocity 60mm gun.

But not 90mm.  The Israelis put low-velocity DEFA 90mm guns on their M3 Halftracks and the M48 Pattons they used in 1967 largely had 90mm guns, but that was the majority of their use by the IDF, not the M1, M50, or M51 Sherman.

View PostAlex82298, on Nov 04 2010 - 20:45, said:

View Postgrefin, on Nov 04 2010 - 20:17, said:

My opinion, it's fine as it is. With this gun would be OP. It's good fast and agile tank with nice "machine gun" :)
Like the t-44 with the 122mm IS gun isn't OP that gun wasn't even ever FITTED on a t-44 so i think it is perfectly fine to ATLEAST give them a 90mm!

That's not true.  It was just as real as the Sherman with 90mm.

Quote

T-44-122

The third prototype T-44-2 was armed with the 122 mm Tank Gun D-25-44T. This gun was very similar to its basic model D-25 but distinguished itself with some minor details.

The only new feature that was included was: the gun used cartridge loading shots instead of separate loading. Expecting that cartridge loading would increase the rate of fire. The first trials were in February-March 1944 but were unsuccessful due to gun failure. The gun was returned to the factory #9 for repair and improvement of the revealed drawback.

In April-May 1944 the trials were resumed, however the practical ROF didn't increase and still remained 2–3 shots per minute. The tank's turret was too cramped to operate with such long and heavy ammunition and besides the T-44–2 had limited ammunition stowage — only 24 rounds, being insufficient for a medium tank. After it was realized, trials were stopped all further work was cancelled.

http://battlefield.r...nks/95-t44.html

http://battlefield.r...mb_l_t44_16.jpg

http://battlefield.r...mb_l_t44_15.jpg
http://battlefield.r...mb_l_t44_16.jpg

Cheers,

Logan

zmeul #9 Posted Nov 04 2010 - 21:22

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View PostAlex82298, on Nov 04 2010 - 20:45, said:

View Postgrefin, on Nov 04 2010 - 20:17, said:

My opinion, it's fine as it is. With this gun would be OP. It's good fast and agile tank with nice "machine gun" :)
Like the t-44 with the 122mm IS gun isn't OP that gun wasn't even ever FITTED on a t-44 so i think it is perfectly fine to ATLEAST give them a 90mm!
yes they did, the T-44-122 prototype, that proved the 122mm gun shouldn't be used in a medium tank

http://www.battlefie...mb_l_t44_15.jpg

BazookaDre #10 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 00:00

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Like I said in one of the other topics, my experience in the Russian servers is telling me that the Easy Eight is really lacking in the firepower department.  The M1A2 76mm just doesn't cut it, especially in terms of the damage.  It was painful to watch Easy Eights time and time again, get great shots, penetrating side shots mostly ( easy due to the tanks mobility), but the damage was too low.  You can be pegging away at a heavy time and time again, and you won't kill it unless it was almost dead to begin with.  I think the 90mm would give the tank parity with the other tanks of its Tier, and at least allow this tank to hurt the late Tier heavies.

Motorfix #11 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 02:26

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Bring on the 90mm!

ramp4ge #12 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 03:59

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Absolutely and most definitely.

What goes does the Easy-Eight have access to right now? I mean, are any of them comparable to the Russian 100mm or the 88 L/56?

zmeul #13 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 04:19

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not exactly, the best M4A3E8 gun is the 76mm M1A2
the only advatage of this gun it's the rate of fire, but falls behind compared in penetration power and damage

take a look:
        

Attached Files

  • Attached File   medT6_URSSvsGERvsUS.jpg   242.6K


ramp4ge #14 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 04:40

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That's BS. Seriously. They need to give it the 90mm...

ZorinWarfield #15 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 06:29

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How about you lot start to do some math first...

8,8cm KwK36 L/56

2200 dm/m

85mm D-5T-85BM

1945,35 dm/m

D-10T

1623,8 dm/m

76mm M1A2

2156,25 dm/m

So again, what do you need a 90mm for? The US 76mm deals nearly as much damage as a Tiger cannon!

ramp4ge #16 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 06:54

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128mm penetration.

DPS is worthless if you aren't penetrating, unless you're spamming HE.

Both the Russian and German tier 6 guns have better penetration.

I'd give up the rate of fire for the 90mm gun's 160mm penetration.

The Russian and German tier 6 mediums get a tier 7 gun..why doesn't the US?

It's going to be almost exactly like running around in Panzer III/IV or a Panzer IV with the L/48. The 76mm M1A2's stats are very similar to the L/48. And it's going to be equally pointless against other tier VI vehicles.

ZorinWarfield #17 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 07:00

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View Postramp4ge, on Nov 05 2010 - 06:54, said:

128mm penetration.

DPS is worthless if you aren't penetrating, unless you're spamming HE.

Both the Russian and German tier 6 guns have better penetration.

I'd give up the rate of fire for the 90mm gun's 160mm penetration.

The Russian and German tier 6 mediums get a tier 7 gun..why doesn't the US?

It is a difference of 4 mm on average to the Tiger`s 8,8cm, nothing to get worked up about.

ramp4ge #18 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 07:02

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4mm is a big deal when it comes to penetrating a target. Especially a sloped target. If it comes to being assured a bounce or a hit, I'd take the 160mm penetrating gun any day.

ANY day.

If we go by the formula of German and Russian tanks of each tier getting a gun +1 above their own tier, then the M4A3E8 is an exception to the rule. Especially considering the gun on the tank was historically accurate on a trial basis..There's no reason for it to not be there. And was likely an oversight to begin with.

ZorinWarfield #19 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 07:08

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View Postramp4ge, on Nov 05 2010 - 07:02, said:

4mm is a big deal when it comes to penetrating a target. Especially a sloped target. If it comes to being assured a bounce or a hit, I'd take the 160mm penetrating gun any day.

ANY day.

But you are aware that you bounce mostly because of the slope and not the armor thickness? A Hetzer has only 70mm at the front but will bounce 122mm shells because of its narrow armor plate angle.

zmeul #20 Posted Nov 05 2010 - 07:09

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View PostZorinWarfield, on Nov 05 2010 - 06:29, said:

So again, what do you need a 90mm for? The US 76mm deals nearly as much damage as a Tiger cannon!
for the same reason there is a big turret on the PZ4 or 122mm gun on the T-44 or a BL-9 gun on IS-3




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