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7.5 Panzer IV vs M10 Wolverine.


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Tupinambis #1 Posted Sep 09 2012 - 23:48

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I have a question for those of you who are going to miss the Schmalturm Panzer IV once 8.0 comes out [assuming that you don't plan on buying the premium].

Have you guys considered getting an M10?
The more and more I think about it, the more similar these two vehicles seem to be.

The current Panzer IV has few distinct advantages over the M10: More hitpoints, better raw thickness on the turret, 10 more pen, 20 more alpha.

The M10, however, has a MAGNIFICENT RoF/DPM advantage, one of the best troll-mantles in the game, gun depression, aim time, and inherently better camo.

Also, I'm pretty sure the M10 is much better with its module damage than the Panzer IV.


Otherwise though, these tanks seem to feature similar traits. They both perform the sniper niche quite well, have exactly the same accuracy, neither are particularly maneuverable, and both have absolutely terrible side armor.

The Panzer IV's 80mm flat hull has similar armor protection as the M10's 50mm angled hull. The M10's turret is nearly impenetrable as long as it remains facing forward. The Panzer IV's turret is a little more forgiving.

Overall, these two tanks seem to have similar features and similar playstyles.
If you are sad that the Panzer IV Schmalturm is leaving you, the M10 may be worth checking out.


Granted, the Panzer IV is one of the only tier 5's that I don't use, so if I'm just spewing nonsense feel free to tell me.

Edited by Tupinambis, Sep 09 2012 - 23:49.


ZeroV #2 Posted Sep 09 2012 - 23:56

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One is a Tank Destroyer the other is a Medium Tank....Two completely different playstyles...

The Panzer is more durable, but the M10 has camo bonuses, you can drop the proper equipment on it and really become a hidden menace. Camo net, binocs, rammer.

Edited by ZeroV, Sep 09 2012 - 23:57.


DeserterFox #3 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 00:03

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View PostZeroV, on Sep 09 2012 - 23:56, said:

One is a Tank Destroyer the other is a Medium Tank....Two completely different playstyles...


What...?

accelerate #4 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 00:25

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often i get the urge to switch from german MT to TD line

VRMoran #5 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 00:28

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I actually loved the M10 Wolverine quite a lot, and the comparison is actually a very good one.

Something else I realized though: with the 8.0 patch, the T-25 (the Skoda Premium Tank) may actually be superior to the Panzer IV. It will have a gun with similar handling, but slightly more penetration and a considerable increase in hitpoints, speed, slopy armor, and U.S. style gun depression.

Just an observation :Smile_smile:

Tishler #6 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 01:54

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View PostVRMoran, on Sep 10 2012 - 00:28, said:

I actually loved the M10 Wolverine quite a lot, and the comparison is actually a very good one.

Something else I realized though: with the 8.0 patch, the T-25 (the Skoda Premium Tank) may actually be superior to the Panzer IV. It will have a gun with similar handling, but slightly more penetration and a considerable increase in hitpoints, speed, slopy armor, and U.S. style gun depression.

Just an observation :Smile_smile:
Yeah, seriously. The T-25 has inferior view range (310?) and turns worse, but that doesn't balance the other clear advantages it has over the new Panzer IV.

...Oh God, the nerf bat's gonna come for it next, won't it? :Smile_ohmy:

Empire385 #7 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 02:53

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Well both being sniper tanks, the M10 will clearly have an advantage now.  The only reason I liked the Pz4 before was because of its high damage, highly accurate gun.  

You start getting trying to snipe with an inferior gun, you're better off with a real sniper, the M10.
You start trying to flank, you're better off with a higher mobility tank like the M4 or Pz3/4.  The M4 absolutely rapes the Pz4 in CQB by the way, There's no reason to get the Pz4 over the M4 now.

Troika #8 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 07:57

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The Pz IV isn't a sniper tank anymore. Slap on the derpgun and watch everything explode, much like the M10 will in one shot from said derpgun.

LittleJoeRambler #9 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 09:02

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Angled enough, the M10's hull will bounce some amazing stuff. I've bullied StuG IIIs and even KV-1s with it before. I'd recommend the M10 to anyone wanting a tier 5 sniper/DPM machine.

Shootaloo #10 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 10:40

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View PostEmpire385, on Sep 10 2012 - 02:53, said:

You start trying to flank, you're better off with a higher mobility tank like the M4

Ah yes, the M4, epitome of "mobility."  I don't know where this myth started but the M4 has the same acceleration as the bobblehead Pz4.  The new Pz4 just leaves it in the dust.

Krusenstern #11 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 14:09

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I too am about to switch to the american turreted TD line as a result of the neutering of the PanzerIV.
Wondering though whether there are non-russian alternatives that I am missing for a tier5 turreted vehicle with a well penning reasonably accurate gun?

Mow_Mow #12 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 14:27

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M10's turret traverse is also anemic like every other turreted tank destroyer .Open top too, if being oneshot by Priests counts for anything.

iPancakes #13 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 14:33

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dont want to grab the M10

Reason:

-lower HP
-crew death thanks to HE shells going through the top turret

Krusenstern #14 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 15:29

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View PostMow_Mow, on Sep 10 2012 - 14:27, said:

M10's turret traverse is also anemic like every other turreted tank destroyer .Open top too, if being oneshot by Priests counts for anything.

PzIV Schmalturm has anemic traverse as well, so no big difference there. The old PzIV played more like a turreted TD than a generic medium tank anyway. Most people who mourn the passing of the PzIV like it for the accurate well penning gun and nothing else. So slow speeds, open tops or low armor don't really turn me off, I just want a good long range gun on a turret. The additional camo comes in handy, though I am not sure how camo on turreted TDs compares to that of medium tanks... Those TDs have a rather higher profile than their casemated companions, no?

Tiger_23 #15 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 15:30

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I love my Wolverine...however, i have low win rate in the M10 :(

screamingdizbusters #16 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 16:35

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If you don't mind jumping up a tier the T-34-85 has a highly similar 85mm gun, almost identical accuracy and aim time + pen and alpha with a close reload time.

For tier 5...  If you're looking for a very similar playstyle to the PZ4 then play the m10.  (surprisingly got a 50% or so winrate on it, but with the m36 upgrade it was a great improvemet & got a 60% winrate and it strangely played like a VK3601H with decent front armor, bouncy gun mantlet, + gun depression and a fast 90mm gun thats better than the short 88 in practically everyway)  The M10 felt more mobile and the gun had a super fast aiming time which means you could stay mobile & not worry about spending too much time stationary to line up a shot.

If you guys wanna stick to a tried and true medium with an enclosed roof and higher than TD hitpoints, then the sherman would be your next move.

If you don't mind giving up a turret then I'd suggest the S-35 CA with the stock gun(really its a great stock gun) and superwide gun arc and great USA tank style gun depression.

Otherwise the Stug or SU-85 for obvious reasons.

MagusGerhardt #17 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 17:44

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Eh, no thanks, Tupi.  

First off the German Crew that I've trained up to 369% skill rating with skills meant to be used from a sniping vehicle won't be able to go into that M-10.   And like hell if I'm going to grind yet another crew out to do the exact same thing.

Second off I'm not going up a line just to get a vehicle that plays like something that WG already broke for me.  It shows an inordinate amount of trust in something that has proven itself pretty untrustworthy and the opposite of transparent.

Not going to free xp my way there, either.  I'm jealously hoarding that stuff in anticipation of the WG unified account so I can use it on one of the other upcoming games in the hope that it's a little better thought out than WoT turned out to be.

As you say, the old PzIV may play as the M-10 does now...I'm just beyond caring.  :Smile-bajan2:

ammo_magnet #18 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 18:43

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View PostTupinambis, on Sep 09 2012 - 23:48, said:

I have a question for those of you who are going to miss the Schmalturm Panzer IV once 8.0 comes out [assuming that you don't plan on buying the premium].

Have you guys considered getting an M10?
The more and more I think about it, the more similar these two vehicles seem to be.

The current Panzer IV has few distinct advantages over the M10: More hitpoints, better raw thickness on the turret, 10 more pen, 20 more alpha.

The M10, however, has a MAGNIFICENT RoF/DPM advantage, one of the best troll-mantles in the game, gun depression, aim time, and inherently better camo.

Also, I'm pretty sure the M10 is much better with its module damage than the Panzer IV.


Otherwise though, these tanks seem to feature similar traits. They both perform the sniper niche quite well, have exactly the same accuracy, neither are particularly maneuverable, and both have absolutely terrible side armor.

The Panzer IV's 80mm flat hull has similar armor protection as the M10's 50mm angled hull. The M10's turret is nearly impenetrable as long as it remains facing forward. The Panzer IV's turret is a little more forgiving.

Overall, these two tanks seem to have similar features and similar playstyles.
If you are sad that the Panzer IV Schmalturm is leaving you, the M10 may be worth checking out.


Granted, the Panzer IV is one of the only tier 5's that I don't use, so if I'm just spewing nonsense feel free to tell me.
I loved my Pz4 (my fav tank and RIP)
I have M-10
None of M-10 guns come close to L70

Edited by ammo_magnet, Sep 10 2012 - 18:53.


Skpstr #19 Posted Sep 10 2012 - 21:07

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I've got both, with similar stats.

I play them both similarly, with a little more leading the pack when needed in the PzIV. (although the M10 works not too badly as a tank when necessary if on top of the MM)

The lower HP seems to not really be an issue, the angled armor and higher camo offset the PzIV's better armor.

The guns seem to balance out too (firing 50% more often seems to make up for worse pen and accuracy, especially if you don't get spotted when shooting)

IMO, the M10 has a tad more mobility than the PzIV, at least in straight-line acceleration.

The open top doesn't seem to make any difference. I've had far more crew deaths and criticals in the PzIV (I don't remember ever having my M10 catch fire.