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Lert's thread of 'Duh', or 'MSPaint schematics explaining gameplay basics'


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Lert #1 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:40

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Once again I saw some noobs doing stuff that made me facepalm. A King Tiger with 38% win rate and 510 efficiency for example, being more of a liability to his own team than the enemy. And what does a Lert do when frustrated by noobs? Why, he makes MSPaint schematics and posts a guide explaining some basic things. I've done that before, I'll probably keep doing it.


These things should be 'duh' to most experienced players out there, and this thread isn't meant for them, it's meant for beginners who are still trying to understand basic gameplay mechanics.


Ok, let's get started:


Item the first: "What is that part of the tank called, and should I shoot it?"


First a front view of a generic MSPaint tank with bright colors to annoy the goths and emos:



- The blue bits are the tracks. Shooting here will probably knock the track off, but very likely not do hitpoint damage.
- The red bit is the upper glacis. This is usually the second strongest part of the tank. Only shoot here when you're sure you can pen.
- The green bit is the lower glacis. This is much weaker armored than the upper glacis. It's a good idea to shoot here. You're much more likely to pen and do hitpoint damage than any other bit.
- The purple bit is the gun mount. Shooting here is very unlikely to do hitpoint damage. But a good hit with HE has a chance of knocking his gun out.
- The pink bit is the gun mantlet. This is the thickest armor on the tank. Don't shoot here.
- The dark red bit is the turret itself. This is usually fairly strong armor. Shoot here only if you don't have a shot at the lower glacis.


Side view:



- The yellow bit is the hull. Shooting here has a very good chance of doing hitpoint damage. Shoot here.
- The green bits are the drive sprocket and idler wheel. Shooting these will probably knock the track off but not always reliably do hitpoint damage.
- The blue bit is the tracks. Shooting here has a small chance of knocking the tracks off, as well as a chance of not doing hitpoint damage because it acts as spaced armor, which I will explain below. Don't shoot here, unless you don't have a better shot.
- The red bit is the turret. Shooting here has a very good chance of doing hitpoint damage as well as knocking crew and / or ammo racks out. This is a very good place to shoot.
- The purple bit is the first few feet of the gun. It's a tricky shot, but shooting here has a chance of knocking the gun out, but without doing hitpoint damage. Only shoot here if no better shot is available.
- The gray bit is the barrel. This doesn't have a damage hitbox. Don't bother shooting it, it can't get hurt anyways.


Item the second: "How to not be a [edited]"


Imagine the following situation:



Teammate 1 is playing peek-a-boo with the big, bad enemy tank.


- Teammate 2 has parked right behind teammate 1, blocking 1's retreat. Teammate 2 is a [edited]. Don't be teammate 2.
- Teammate 3 has parked on the far side of teammate 1. Unlike teammate 2, teammate 3 is not a [edited]. However, the moment teammate 1 backs up (and he will, if he's smart) teammate 3 is out in the open for the whole enemy team to kill. So, while not a [edited], teammate 3 is in fact not very smart.
- Teammate 4 is neither a [edited]nor dumb: he is in fact very smart. Why? He's going around the building to attack the enemy in the side. This is called 'flanking'. Flanking is good. We like people who flank. Flankers win.


Item the third: "How do I camo?"



For the purpose of this demonstration, the enemy is off to the left of this picture. The three little tanklets have all found themselves a bush ("This is my bush, there are many like it but this one is mine") with intent to get the camoflage bonus that bushes give. However:


- Tank 1 has his corners sticking out of the bush, and is therefore not camoflaged.
- Tank 2 is only partially behind the bush, part of him is visible alongside the bush. He is therefore not camoflaged.
- Tank 3 is completely hidden behind the bush, therefore he does get the camoflage bonus.


Bushes only work if you're completely obscured by them.


Item the fourth: "I liek spacy armor"


Yes. Yes you do. We all do. As long as we're the ones who have it. Not when we're the ones shooting at it. Observe:



Many tanks have spaced armor. Spaced armor is a fancy way of saying "Two layers of stuff with some air between them". A shot that hits the outer layer of armor and penetrates still has to punch through the inner layer of armor as well before getting to the juicy, splatty, gooey bits inside the tin can. However, since it's lost some of its penetration on the outer layer, the shell will have some difficulty punching through the inner layer, as in my example.


When this happens, you'll see a penetration decal on your target, but hear 'that one bounced', and not do hitpoint damage. No, it's not a bug, it's spaced armor.


Many tanks have spaced armor, in many different locations. Learning these will go a long way in making you a more effective player.
Finally, remember when in item the first I said that tracks act as spaced armor? That's why with side-shots you're less likely to do actual hitpoint damage when shooting the tracks, instead of the hull directly. You have to punch through the tracks and then also through the hull, to do damage. Therefor, only go for track shots if you don't have a better shot available.


Item the fifth: "Lol sloped armor"


We all know (well, most of us) that sloped armor is more effective than unsloped armor. But why? Here's why:



Two armor plates of identical thickness. One at 90 degrees, one at 45 degrees. As you can see, the effective thickness (IE, the amount of armor the shell has to punch through) is significantly more with the angled plate. This is how a 100mm plate can stop a 200mm pen shell, if it's angled enough.


How to make effective use of slopes? Well, first you need to know what your tank looks like. This might sound silly, but it means being aware of your own tank's angles. Then during combat you present your toughest angles to the enemy tank with the biggest gun. It's as simple as that. With some tanks (Like Tiger for example) this means angling your hull ~30 degrees towards incoming fire. With other tanks (Like IS-3 for example) this means pointing your nose straight at the enemy. It's as simple as that.


How to defeat slopes? Shoot at the least sloped bit. Always be aware of the relative angle of the enemy tank, and know what his tank looks like. Be aware of his angles. Then shoot at the bit that's the flattest relative to your position. Ofcourse there are exceptions, but this seems to be a good rule-of-thumb for beginning and intermediate players.


Item the sixth: "Apply explosion to tank = win?"


Most of the time you'll be shooting AP shells. Atleast, unless you're an artillery driver. The 'other' type of shell is the HE shell, or High Explosive shell. It works rather differently from an AP shell.



HE shells usually have very low pen, but very high damage. The low pen means that it's usually not likely for your HE shell to punch through the enemy armor, just like in my example.


When a HE shell explodes on the enemy's armor, it loses half its damage to thin air. The remaining half is applied to the tank. However: said damage still needs to bleed through the enemy's armor (RE: dotted yellow line in my example) before it's applied to the hitpoints or modules / crew inside the tin can. For every mm of armor that it has to bleed through, it loses damage. This means that your shiny 950 dam HE shell can do a pathetic 25 damage to thick-skinned enemy tanks: 450 damage is lost into the ether, and of the remaining 450 damage, 425 is lost while trying to bleed through the armor.


Why use HE at all, then? Some guns (so-called howitzers, or 'derp' guns) have a relatively low shell velocity, and thus armor penetration with AP. You can recognise these because they have a very short barrel, and relatively low penetration values for the AP shell, compared to the HE shell. For example, on the KV-2, the 152mm has an AP pen of 110mm and a HE pen of 83mm. This is a typical example of a derp gun. In fact, the KV-2's 152 is the ur-derp. The 107 on the same tank has an AP pen of 167mm and a HE pen of 54mm. This is a typical high-velocity anti-tank gun. The 152 works best when shooting primarily HE, the 107 works best when shooting primarily AP shells. Look at the relative pen levels on your tank to see what shell you should be using.


That's it for now. I'll add more if I think of more, or if someone asks me to do more and I can be arsed to.



DrKrieg #2 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:43

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awesome um... "ms paint guide"

lol

plus one to you!

maybe this help certain people get some mechanics and aim zones without installing "funky clown tank hitzone mods"

cheers

thundersaver #3 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:47

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"DUH" this is such a good guide :Smile_great:

ShiningArmor101 #4 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:48

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Hmm.

What about HE Damage in general (Explain Tank and Artillery Piece's HE and their "nerfs")?

I've seen players who only shoot HE Shells for some reason, as a Tank (No Derp Gun whatsoever). o.O

Then how bout explaining the proper use of the tactic, CB, or Counter-Battery due to seeing a lot of Artillery Pieces not using it, unless using AP rounds. Ever had Allied Artillery Pieces CBed since they never moved in your Matches Lert? Well, there's also the aspect that Artillery Pieces aren't completely defenseless when a Scout slips by. Ever heard of TD Mode? :x

_Leo_Major #5 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:50

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excellent guide, unfortunately people who are like number 2 in how not to be a douche are the people who dont go on the forum :P

the other day there was a tiger P who was sticking about 3 feet ot of a bushm thus nto camoflaged, and then i remembered.. its a tiger P... meatshields dont need to be hidden.. especially since there was no arty..

Death187 #6 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:51

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:40, said:

... with bright colors to annoy the goths and emos:

:Smile_veryhappy:

I just wish all the noobs were forced to sit and read this thread and several others on the forums.

If you are a newbie read the forums to try and understand the basic tactics of this game. If you have questions about what you read ask! Everyone started off as a newbie so we are here to help prevent you from becoming a noob and a burden to your teams. It will make your game experience, and ours, that much better.

Lert #7 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:52

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MrSuicide, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:48, said:

What about HE Damage in general (Explain Tank and Artillery Piece's HE and their "nerfs")?
Good one.

Coolhand_Luke #8 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:52

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:40, said:

Item the second: "How to not be a douche"

Imagine the following situation:

Posted Image

Teammate 1 is playing peek-a-boo with the big, bad enemy tank.

- Teammate 2 has parked right behind teammate 1, blocking 1's retreat. Teammate 2 is a douche. Don't be teammate 2.
- Teammate 3 has parked on the far side of teammate 1. Unlike teammate 2, teammate 3 is not a douche. However, the moment teammate 1 backs up (and he will, if he's smart) teammate 3 is out in the open for the whole enemy team to kill. So, while not a douche, teammate 3 is in fact not very smart.
- Teammate 4 is neither a douche nor dumb: he is in fact very smart. Why? He's going around the building to attack the enemy in the side. This is called 'flanking'. Flanking is good. We like people who flank. Flankers win.

So helpful!  So condescending!  LOL +1.

Oh, and I am sometimes Teammate 3, and it can be sad.

pcope #9 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:57

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This reminds me of the scene in Spartacus when the trainer in the gladiator paints up the gladiator to show the locations for a quick kill, a slow kill, and injuries using red, yellow, and blue paint.

This sort of knowledge of 'where to shoot' is crucial. And even more crucial, as you addressed, is the concept of angling and armor. The reticle may tell you with it's little green indicator that you're good to go and you'll pen the armor. But the angle may be what tells you "Nope! Sorry!"

:) Good guide!

Nisae #10 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 15:57

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Lert,can I do the pictures next time?

Lert #11 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:05

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Coolhand_Luke, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:52, said:

I am sometimes Teammate 3
Me too. There are times when being Teammate 3 can be useful, but usually it ends in tears.

Nisae, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:57, said:

Lert,can I do the pictures next time?
Make your own thread. :Smile-hiding:

What's wrong with my pictures?

Das_Schlippo #12 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:14

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 16:05, said:

Me too. There are times when being Teammate 3 can be useful, but usually it ends in tears.

One of those times when teammate 3 is useful is when he has full or nearly full HP, and teammate 1 is a high value tank that is taking a pasting and is low on health.  Sometimes, by being teammate 3, you can distract the enemy enough that teammate 1 can retreat and relocate his high value gun to a safer spot on the battlefield.  It goes against instinct, but sometimes you have to step up and be a damage sponge for your team.

Lert #13 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:16

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Too true. That's all pretty advanced stuff though, and not easily explained with bright colors in MSPaint.

dualmaster333 #14 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:26

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:40, said:

Item the second: "How to not be a douche"

Imagine the following situation:

Posted Image

Also note that teammate 3 has a high douche potential - if he doesn't pull out far enough, he may fire just as teammate 1 pops out to fire and end up pumping a round into the back of #1's turret.

Whiskey_dod #15 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:27

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Your MSPainfu is strong.

The bush #1 example can actually work for a select few tanks in a (relatively) small number of bushes. But for most tanks, it will result in their swift annihilation by most of the enemy team.

Coolhand_Luke #16 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:51

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 16:05, said:

What's wrong with my pictures?

Some people only want anime.

BattlecryGWJ #17 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:53

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Should be required reading before you can purchase your first premium tank or before you can research out of tier IV!

Erwin_Freakin_Rommel #18 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 16:55

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Oh God, the common sense, the logic, the pain!

Nisae #19 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 17:02

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 16:05, said:

Me too. There are times when being Teammate 3 can be useful, but usually it ends in tears.


Make your own thread. :Smile-hiding:

What's wrong with my pictures?

I am terrible with the werdz,help me with that x_x

I can do other stuff well tho.

Tiger_23 #20 Posted Sep 11 2012 - 17:02

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Lert, on Sep 11 2012 - 15:40, said:

Item the second: "How to not be a douche"

Imagine the following situation:

Posted Image

Teammate 1 is playing peek-a-boo with the big, bad enemy tank.

- Teammate 2 has parked right behind teammate 1, blocking 1's retreat. Teammate 2 is a douche. Don't be teammate 2.
- Teammate 3 has parked on the far side of teammate 1. Unlike teammate 2, teammate 3 is not a douche. However, the moment teammate 1 backs up (and he will, if he's smart) teammate 3 is out in the open for the whole enemy team to kill. So, while not a douche, teammate 3 is in fact not very smart.
- Teammate 4 is neither a douche nor dumb: he is in fact very smart. Why? He's going around the building to attack the enemy in the side. This is called 'flanking'. Flanking is good. We like people who flank. Flankers win.


Thats very helpful.

Can I post the link of this guide in mah sig?? (Propaganda)

Edited by Tiger_23, Sep 11 2012 - 17:03.





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