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Hotchkiss H35/H39: Not fast enough!


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Okinoshima #1 Posted Sep 13 2012 - 23:54

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The H35 is a favourite of mine, a little tank with good deflection ability, a punchy little gun and a good series of upgrades that more or less turns it from the H35 to the improved H39 tank, with its better AT gun and new suspension but one thing that is missing is the new engine the H39 got! Newly built H39s had a new Hotchkiss designed 120hp, 6 cylinder, gasoline engine, replacing the paltry 78hp engine. This gave the already fairly quick (by French standards) tank a boost of speed. From a 28 km/h top speed to a compartively blazingly fast 36.5 km/h.

It would be great if Wargaming could include the newer 120hp engine and give the H35 a bit more kick that it historically did! :Smile_Default:

k9catforce #2 Posted Sep 14 2012 - 00:24

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balance.. nuff' said.

k9catforce #3 Posted Sep 14 2012 - 00:27

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http://tvtropes.org/...n/MightyGlacier

Okinoshima #4 Posted Sep 14 2012 - 00:59

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Gameplay balancing is pretty important to keep, having a fast tank that ALSO has fantastic armour is a bit much.

Perhaps the H39 could become its own tank? In Tier III? With the installation of the larger, heavier and more powerful engine, so the hull of the H39 had to be changed physically since the engine's dimensions weren't the same as the H35 and ended up becoming a ton heavier.

"The new subtype differed from the original one in having a raised and more angular engine deck (in later production vehicles with crosswise instead of longitudinal ventilation slits on the right side); a range decreased to 120 km; closed idler wheels; tracks two centimetres wider at 27 cm; metal instead of rubber wheel treads; a silencer directed to the back and larger, more reliable and effective, ventilators."

Amazingly enough the H39 kept fighting, fighting on in the service of the German, French and Vichy French armies and finally even into 1948 in the Arab-Israeli War! During this time the Israelis replaced the 37mm SA 38 AT gun with late model British QF 2 pounders.

Edited by Okinoshima, Sep 14 2012 - 04:48.


Okinoshima #5 Posted Sep 15 2012 - 06:13

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A big difference between the H35 and the H39 that I forgot to mention yesterday was that, along with changes to the hull itself to accommodate a larger engine, the H39 also had thicker armour around the hull:

The Armour specifications for the Hotchkiss H35

Turret Front : 40mm/5° and 28° + gun mantlet
Turret Sides : 40mm/28°
Turret Rear : 40mm/30° (rear hatch is 40mm thick)
Turret Top : 25mm/90°
Copula : 40mm/round
Hull Front, Upper : 35mm/30° and round
Hull Front, Lower : 35mm/ round
Hull Sides : 35mm/15°
Hull Rear : 35mm/about 50° and 30°
Hull Top : 22mm/88° and 90°
Hull Bottom : 12mm/90°

The Armour specifications for the Hotchkiss H39

Turret Front : 40mm/5° and 28° + gun mantlet
Turret Sides : 40mm/28°
Turret Rear : 40mm/30° (rear hatch is 40mm thick)
Turret Top : 25mm/90°
Copula : 40mm/round
Hull Front, Upper : 40mm/30° and round
Hull Front, Lower : 40mm/round
Hull Sides : 40mm/15°
Hull Rear : 40mm/32° and 30°
Hull Top : 22mm/88° and 90°
Hull Bottom : 12mm/90°

Also the H35 and H39 used different turrets, the H35 used an APX-R turret and the H39 used the APX-R1 turret while not offered any real difference in armour, the key difference is that the APX-R1 allowed the Hotchkiss H39 and the Renault R40 (the Renault R-35 also used the same APX-R turret as the H35) to mount the more powerful, but longer 37mm SA38 AT gun.

Another interesting thing about the R35 and H39 is that both were used in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, with the Syrians using ex-French R35s battling Israel's second-hand H39s!

Okinoshima #6 Posted Sep 20 2012 - 20:30

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Here's an example of an Israeli Renault R35's APX-R1 turret fitted with a British 2 pounder AT gun from the European WoT forum. The Renault R35 and Hotchkiss H35 both used the same turret, IIRC there's an example of a Hotchkiss H39 with a 2 pounder gun in Pascal Danjou's 'Hotchkiss H35/39'

http://forum.valka.c.../1454/saum2.jpg

Edited by Okinoshima, Sep 20 2012 - 20:35.


lostwingman #7 Posted Sep 20 2012 - 22:41

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Strange that the H39 isn't on the tree.
But yea I think the H39 would work better at tier III separate from the H35. H35 is already powerful at tier 2, letting it become the H39 at tier 2 would be ridiculously broken.

Okinoshima #8 Posted Sep 21 2012 - 14:31

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View Postlostwingman, on Sep 20 2012 - 22:41, said:

Strange that the H39 isn't on the tree.
But yea I think the H39 would work better at tier III separate from the H35. H35 is already powerful at tier 2, letting it become the H39 at tier 2 would be ridiculously broken.

Well it looks like they wanted the 'H39' to be a weapons upgrade from the H35. The German PzKpfw 38H735 has 160 HP and is it a bit closer to the H38 (which was an H39 with the older turret and gun). That could be done with the Renault R35 and R40 because that literally was just a turret and suspension/undercarriage upgrade

lostwingman #9 Posted Sep 21 2012 - 15:18

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View PostOkinoshima, on Sep 21 2012 - 14:31, said:

Well it looks like they wanted the 'H39' to be a weapons upgrade from the H35. The German PzKpfw 38H735 has 160 HP and is it a bit closer to the H38 (which was an H39 with the older turret and gun). That could be done with the Renault R35 and R40 because that literally was just a turret and suspension/undercarriage upgrade
?
I own a Pz38H, its got a shit engine. Yea its got a 75hp engine.
I think H39 can be its own separate tank.

Okinoshima #10 Posted Sep 21 2012 - 17:40

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View Postlostwingman, on Sep 21 2012 - 15:18, said:

?
I own a Pz38H, its got a shit engine. Yea its got a 75hp engine.
I think H39 can be its own separate tank.

Well I was referring to that it has a bit more HP than the French H35, that's all. HP in World of tanks is sort of arbitrary anyway, I think it takes into account tank weight, overall size and most importantly, game balance etc.