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German Superiority

Germanbias

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easy8tanker #21 Posted Oct 08 2012 - 23:52

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View PostM18HellCat, on Oct 08 2012 - 23:27, said:

Best picture I have seen in a while on the forums. Still laughing. LOL

Cleric2145 #22 Posted Oct 08 2012 - 23:55

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In all honesty, the Tiger was so great purely because it had a good gun and good armor. Once the Allies caught up it was piecemeal. The main issue was that the Western Allies had to ship their tanks across the Atlantic/English Channel, so there was a severe weight restriction--any heavy tanks were very few and far between. Eastern allies chose to focus more on sheer numbers than on decent tanks, and that's why the Tigers dominated T-34s in battles from 1v1 to 4v1, but crumbled as soon as the Tigers had to maneuver or assault or were overwhelmed.

The Tiger only has such a reputation because of how shockingly big and ridiculously powerful the armor and gun were, the tank itself wasn't very good. The Tiger, IMO, was one of the biggest contributors to Germany's loss (although far from the only one.)

AuraDesru #23 Posted Oct 08 2012 - 23:57

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History...
lol ok
You dont bring up tank history unless its historical tank values like armor mm and guns and etc.
Its a game.. Deal with it
PZ4 and the M4 sherman are almost equal in tier.
Be a smart tanker and youll derp a sherman from the behind.. jesus christ

SuperZero0ne #24 Posted Oct 08 2012 - 23:59

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Yes, I knew that a storm would brew from this.

Ostertallninny #25 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 00:00

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The Tiger tank was a good tank, in gun terms. The 88 L/56 could deal with everything up until the end days of the war.

But it was unreliable, expensive, and had little armor in late war years.

Ostertallninny #26 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 00:06

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And also, too all you people who think the Pz4= Sherman... The Sherman does 60 more damage per HE shot. That is the difference between derping someone and being derped.

SpartanGodTalyon #27 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 00:09

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View PostOstertallninny, on Oct 09 2012 - 00:06, said:

And also, too all you people who think the Pz4= Sherman... The Sherman does 60 more damage per HE shot. That is the difference between derping someone and being derped.


its also much more armored haha...

Tishler #28 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 00:26

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View PostSuperZero0ne, on Oct 08 2012 - 23:59, said:

Yes, I knew that a storm would brew from this.
Then why'd you post it?

Men like you just want to watch the world burn.

HoLkiN #29 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 00:26

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germans tank were superior, they sure had great tanks and crews, their reputation is for a good reason, and the Tiger reputation too, even with flaws it was amazing and it did more than many tanks could... in the game they also have great tanks, just learn how to use it

Legiondude #30 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 00:33

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View PostOstertallninny, on Oct 09 2012 - 00:06, said:

And also, too all you people who think the Pz4= Sherman... The Sherman does 60 more damage per HE shot. That is the difference between derping someone and being derped.
Hahah

no

You obviously aren't paying attention to Shell Type

Hans_Grey #31 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 01:56

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It is a game so we german armor lovers will have to just fight harder.

I think the panzers III,IV and tiger I are some of the best looking AFV in WWII.   Always got look good while getting blown up.

SoukouDragon #32 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 13:39

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OP, Germany was fighting a defensive war and Germany had long range accurate and powerful guns.

Also generally, one good penetrating shot meant a dead tank. In WoT, tanks have hit points and thus can take multiple hits. Now that probably would not be very fun, to get killed in one hit. If the game was like that, German tanks probably be the best since accuracy would be a much more influential quality.

Johnny_Mars #33 Posted Oct 09 2012 - 15:23

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View PostSuperZero0ne, on Oct 08 2012 - 23:14, said:

Now I have my PzIV fully upgraded and I use the 105 gun on it, I fire, they take the hit, they fire, I die. It's really irritating, what are your thoughts guys?
Setting aside the historical inaccuracy argument, it sounds like you play your Panzer IV like doo-doo. Your Win Rate with it through 105 games is pretty poor, even allowing for some bad luck. I can't see your XP or damage per game, or your survival rate, but I'm guessing they're all low. You should either do the work to improve or stick to playing your Grille, with which you're at least average. (You've also had some success in your German TDs, but in too few games to say much.)



p.s. I didn't give you a neg rep or a facepalm, I'm being totally serious. I can see from a glance at your basic stats that you're handling your Panzer IV badly, especially compared to other vehicles you've driven. Your Wespe was some kind of waking nightmare, but you seemed to figure something out by the time you got to the Grille and managed dramatic turnaround. The reverse happened between the Pz III and Pz IV. I can't be more specific without details.

Edited by Johnny_Mars, Oct 09 2012 - 15:27.


minim8greyhound #34 Posted Oct 11 2012 - 20:30

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This is just you,
I personally enjoy killing american tanks in my pz4. I have actually gotten a sherman player so mad in one match that he started cursing because I was able to kill him with my high pen high rate of fire gun (the L48 I think it's the gun the pz3/4 has) and he failed to derp me at low health. Also you failed to mention Russian tanks. Remember just because you seem to be killed by american tanks doesn't mean German tanks are inferior. Maybe it is your playing style, or lots of american tanks are in battles lately idk...

Each tank has a weakness and a strength you just need to learn how to master it. The pz4 can't take more than 3-4 hits usually. It was meant to be a sniper but as you can see its playing style has been changed drastically. But I still like my pz4 though and will continue to leave a special spot for it in my garage. The pz4 is better played as a support tank or a peekaboo tank with it's derp gun now. But if you platoon with a group of pz4's it's a blast!

Now history has nothing to do with the game but you need to consider things like historical penetration, doctrines of different countries during the war, etc. There were more shermans that pz4's thus more american tanks to kill than German.

Hope this helps! I also recommend looking at some topics or videos on how to play the pz4...
See you on the battlefield! :Smile_harp:

Embiggener #35 Posted Oct 11 2012 - 21:01

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View PostSuperZero0ne, on Oct 08 2012 - 23:14, said:

. Now if you look back into history there was a 5:1 ratio of M4's and PzIV deaths.

Lol, no.

Don't worry, just wait until 8.1, then the shoe will be on the other 50 feet.   Accuracy will start to count for a LOT more.

SpartanGodTalyon #36 Posted Oct 11 2012 - 23:57

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View PostEmbiggener, on Oct 11 2012 - 21:01, said:

Lol, no.

Don't worry, just wait until 8.1, then the shoe will be on the other 50 feet.   Accuracy will start to count for a LOT more.

I hope so -.-

Nukem501 #37 Posted Oct 12 2012 - 08:36

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:Smile_popcorn1:

CyberKnife #38 Posted Oct 13 2012 - 06:31

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I believe it is common knowlege that the Russians were quite willing to sacrifice 10 tanks to knock out 1 German Panzer. They continue that strategy today. Russians build in numbers to overwhelm and the US builds quality to kill 20 tanks each. They did the same thing at Kursk that they intended to do in the Fulda Gap.....send through hordes of cheap, easy to build tanks and win by sheer weight of numbers.

As for the M4 comments above. I find the M4 in this game environment to be an extreemly tough opponent in any tank I have run yet. I know this is not a simulator but the M4 was a piece of garbage in WWII which was famous for having a skin like soft butter and a propensity to catch on fire from just about any hit from any side. Oddly we adopted the Russian strategy of building an inferior tank compared to anything the germans fielded so we could mass produce tons and overwhelm.  They were a joke on the battlefield against anything but infantry (and even then still very vulnerable to the Panzerfaust and other infantry shaped charged weapons).

I get that its a game but it kinda bugs me that a tank that caused so many needless deaths in WWII is in here as somekind of serious opponent. If this was a simulator any hit from ANY german tank ...just about anywhere would destroy it instantly.  You had to be pretty clever or lucky to take out a Panzer with an M4 Sherman. All a panzer had to do was hit you anywhere once...and the M4 was a bonfire. Also the range of the Germans was vastly superior...another big problem when you have weak armor and a main gun that had no chance to penn.

SoukouDragon #39 Posted Oct 13 2012 - 22:43

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View Postcamperben, on Oct 13 2012 - 06:31, said:

I believe it is common knowlege that the Russians were quite willing to sacrifice 10 tanks to knock out 1 German Panzer. They continue that strategy today. Russians build in numbers to overwhelm and the US builds quality to kill 20 tanks each. They did the same thing at Kursk that they intended to do in the Fulda Gap.....send through hordes of cheap, easy to build tanks and win by sheer weight of numbers.

As for the M4 comments above. I find the M4 in this game environment to be an extreemly tough opponent in any tank I have run yet. I know this is not a simulator but the M4 was a piece of garbage in WWII which was famous for having a skin like soft butter and a propensity to catch on fire from just about any hit from any side. Oddly we adopted the Russian strategy of building an inferior tank compared to anything the germans fielded so we could mass produce tons and overwhelm.  They were a joke on the battlefield against anything but infantry (and even then still very vulnerable to the Panzerfaust and other infantry shaped charged weapons).

I get that its a game but it kinda bugs me that a tank that caused so many needless deaths in WWII is in here as somekind of serious opponent. If this was a simulator any hit from ANY german tank ...just about anywhere would destroy it instantly.  You had to be pretty clever or lucky to take out a Panzer with an M4 Sherman. All a panzer had to do was hit you anywhere once...and the M4 was a bonfire. Also the range of the Germans was vastly superior...another big problem when you have weak armor and a main gun that had no chance to penn.

A bit over the top..

Panzer 4 had pretty weak armor. The 80mm front hull can do ok vs the short 75.  But the turret was very weak, A sherman with the 76 would not need luck to pen a Panzer4. The Panzer4`s top 75mm was no better then the 76.

Panzerfaust was fairly strong. It could take out IS tanks.

Shermans had to be light enough to ship across the Atlantic.

They were good at climbing, they climbed better than M26 pershings in the Korean war.

Shermans proved to be capable of many upgrades, all the way up to the M51 Super sherman where as T-34`s upgrade path could not go as far and much farther than what the Panzer4 was capable of.

And finally, Shermans were much easier to maintain than German tanks.

A lot of Shermans were knocked out in order to get to Germany fast. When it was clear Germany was gonna lose. The US and Soviet Union rushed to grab as much territory as they could. If they were not in such a rush, they could have used more battle plans that did not involve charging tanks into defending cannons. They could have also waited for more M26 pershings to arrive.

Edited by SoukouDragon, Oct 13 2012 - 22:45.


SteinerTiger #40 Posted Oct 14 2012 - 06:30

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Having played most of my games heavily into the German line, and more than a few into the russian line, it's pretty obvious the  devs are "negatively predisposed" to the thought that the German tanks were so superior to other nations (especially the Russian tanks), technically and historically speaking. Because of this predisposition, the German line is more difficult to play at tier compared to other lines; Devs could address this properly by dropping the tanks of the german line by one tier, or buffing them. It won't happen though because of "Level of Playability." German players will just have to continue to suffer, and hone their skills a little sharper than the rest of the players.





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