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How did the French autoloader mechanisms work?

french tank autoloader mechanism question

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Scorpion_Strike #1 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:12

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I play a lot of autoloader tanks, my favorite so far being the Batchat 25t with the AMX 50 100 and 13 90 coming in close second. But how did those fancy mechanical loader systems work? I've heard them described as "revolvers" but does anyone have an explanation (in layman's terms) or image illustrating exactly how the autoloader systems moved the shells, how the clips were loaded, or how long the whole process took?

DrewDoughty #2 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:15

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http://fofanov.armor...EQP/al-80.1.gif
or this one
http://i44.servimg.c.../88/86/w111.jpg

Edited by Thekebecer, Nov 02 2012 - 22:17.


eat3reat3r #3 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:15

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You know that huge ass rectangular prism in the back? well, have you seen the shell feeder in the back?

Someone would load that up with ~12 shells, when it was time to fire, the mechanism chose a shell (depending on type) i guess 6 AP and 6 HE

after it fired all 6 shells, someone would have to go outside the tank and reload the 6-12 shells again

ccruler #4 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:18

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well, the AMX-13-75 had 2 six-round drums attached to the cannon (yeah, technically a 12 round magazine, which I'm sure was reduced to 6 for balance in-game) usually they'd have one drum with one type of ammo and a different type in the other so one could choose what ammo to use quickly and easily.

Edited by ccruler, Nov 02 2012 - 22:20.


The_Chieftain #5 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:24

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That looks like a Soviet T-XX style autoloader, not a French one.

The only French one I have personally investigated is the one on the AMX-13.

It has two six-round revolvers, one on each side of the turret. (So technically there's an argument for a 12-round clip) Loaded via the long top hatches.
http://www.kotsch88..../jgdpzk-1-1.jpg

Could be loaded from inside, but a bit inconvenient.

The whole system looked something as follows:
http://img804.images...4/2208/w111.jpg

Near as I could tell from sitting inside it, when the appropriate round type is selected, the revolver rotates so that the round can be rolled inwards. There's a slight ramp downward, it seems to just use gravity. when the round has settled directly behind the breech, there is a rammer which pushes it forward. I must admit also to not having investigated the cartridge ejection mechanism, I was short on time.

I presume this is the same system as on the AMX-50 series judging from the roof hatches, but again, I've not looked specifically.

Scorpion_Strike #6 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:40

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Thanks for clearing it up for me guys.

WarStore #7 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:46

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So, technically, to achieve max reload speed, the crew had to leave the tank and reload it from the top hatches?

Do you have any info about how long a crew needed to reload all 12 rounds?

dhellfox #8 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 22:49

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just to add to the question: when reloading where do they retrive the shell from on the amx13 and the batchat? (wheres the compartment)

Bulldog02 #9 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 23:00

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While stationed in Germany in the 90's with B Trp 3/4 U.S Cavalry at Conn Barracks (was an M1A1 Hvy MBT armor crewman [19K]), I was able to see a number of french tanks with the autoloader installed. From what I learned talking to a few of the crewmen, was that once the magazine was empty, they had to find a hide position, get out of the tank, and reload it from outside the vehicle from external ammo storage bins. In other words, unlike in the game where people can drive around the battlefield and circle strafe targets while they reload, they had to be in a safe position for an extended period of time to reload. Wow, would that not be an interesting change for the ingame tanks, might be a game changing positive implementation.

From what I understood, which Chieftain can correct me if I am wrong, the external storage bins were located in the rear hull area, to the sides of the engine compartment.

Can't remember which tank it was, but it had a 20mm coax installed for light soft targets, PC's and trucks, so as to not have to use a Main Gun round on it. I thought that was crazy until I started to think about it.

Hope I helped somewhat.

Echo_Sniper #10 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 23:25

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If you need French to English translation, I could give it a shot, but I'm not too sure as this very specialised and precise wording I'm not used to.

_Freddy_ #11 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 23:47

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The loading mechanism on the AMX13 was also manually cranked via handwheel A by the commander, handwheel B is operated by the gunner (emergency control wheel)
http://img804.images...4/2208/w111.jpg

It takes nearly twice as long to reload internally as it does to load externally (25-30 mins as opposed to 12-15 mins, times are supposed to have been copied from AMX13 manual at Saumur tank museum), the commander can also load individual rounds but it is quite awkward to manoeuvre them around inside the turret.

Rick_500 #12 Posted Nov 03 2012 - 00:09

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Its like a machine gun. Only smaller clip because of Larger shells

Xlucine #13 Posted Nov 03 2012 - 00:17

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Nov 02 2012 - 22:24, said:

That looks like a Soviet T-XX style autoloader, not a French one.

Quote


T-64/80 model

when the round has settled directly behind the breech, there is a rammer which pushes it forward.

This is powered by a spring that is compressed by the recoil IIRC