Jg: VIII 10,5 cm PaK 45 L/52 40 320/320/420 HP 200/244/60 mm 1,030 Credits/10 Gold/650 Credits 7.32r/m 0.34m 1.7s -8°/+14° 16,800 116,490 Credits 3,000 kg
SU: VIII 122 mm D-25S (Wedge Breech) 35 390/390/465 HP 175/217/64 mm 1,025 Credits/12 Gold/608 Credits 7.5r/m 0.41m 2.9s -4°/+16° --- --- 2,590 kg
Size: The SU uses a 122mm compared to the 105mm on the Jg 16% bigger diameter, yet this bigger gun weighs 410kg less.. 13% less.
Damage: 320 on the 105mm vs 390 on the 122mm, 70 damage difference 22% more damage per hit.
RoF: 7.32r/m on the 105mm vs 7.5r/m on the 122mm, 0.18 difference, 2.5% faster though this translate to:
Damage Per Minute: 320x7.32 = 2342.4 on the 105mm VS 390x7.5= 2925.... 582.6 dpm difference... 25% better...
Ammo capacity... the Jg can carry 5 more rounds... so only a 14% advantage there, though in most battles rarely does one deplete themselves that low.
Penetration AP: 200 on the Jg, 175 on the SU, so the Jg gets 25 more 14% advantage
Penetration Prem: 244 on the Jg, 217 on the SU, so the Jg gets 27more 12.5% advantage, though considering that the SU is Premium it is much more profitable thus can afford these rounds more easily.
So in most cases it will be 200 regular round of the Jg vs the 217 Prem round of the SU meaning the SU gets 17mm more pen 8.5% advantage.
Aim Time: 1.7s on the Jg, 2.9s on the SU: 1.2s faster aim time so the JG has a 41% advantage here, though I consider reload time far more important especially since most battles take place within 300 meters.
Accuracy: 0.34m on the Jg, 0.41m on the SU: 0.07 advantage to Jg. 17% better for the Jg though as stated above many battles take place up close and personal.
Ammunition cost: Jg pays 25cred more (negligble) though the Jg pays about 800less cred per Prem round (though as I stated above, SU should be more profitable in the long run).
So the SU does much more damage and damage per minute, has about the same penetration since it can more easily use Prem rounds with its added profitability. The JG only has the advantage in long range sniping.
Hitpoints: Jg=850hp, SU=840hp so 10hp more for the Jg (Huge difference) 1%
Front Armor: Jg has 80mm, the SU has 90mm, 10 more for the SU 12.5%
Side Armor: Jg = 50mm, SU = 75mm, 25 more... 50% more! Side armor is huge for a TD since they will usually get easily flanked by enemies.
Rear Armor: Jg = 40mm, SU = 45mm, 5 more... 12.5%
From the look of it, the SU is smaller, thus slightly lower profile and better angling to maximize its armor's effectiveness.
Weight: Jg = 45-49T, SU = 33-35T... The SU weighs 14T less... Why are they even considered in the same tier... or have almost exactly the same Hit points?
Horsepower: Jg= 750hp, SU = 500hp (lets not forget the SU is 5% less likely to catch fire as well.)
Power/Weight: JG= 750/49T= 15.3 SU= 500/35T= 14.3, Jg has 7% better power/weight.
Top Speed: JG=46km/h, SU=47.5km/h 1.5km/h meaning about 3%
Traverse Speed: JG= 29d/s, SU = 42d/s... 13d/s advantage for SU, 45%! Turning speed is Critical for TDs...
Radio: Jg gets 10 more meters... big whoop.
View Range: Jg=350, SU=330, 20 more for JG about 6% advantage. Though without comparable Camo numbers I can't tell if this small advantage would mean much since usually Russian TDs are given Klingon technology...
Crew: SU doesn't have a Radio Operator... so basically it doesn't have a useless member that really doesnt provide much in terms of great Perks (espcially since this isn't a scout). Having one less member means that carrying a Med Pack covers 1/4 of your team compared to 1/5 in the JG, so I see this as another SU advantage.
Basically the SU is more nimble on its feet in terms of turning, has more armor, basically the same Hit point pool, less likely to catch fire, a better crew, slightly less view range/radio and power weight ratio...
So not only does the SU get a clear advantage in terms of its gun but also its hull, not to mention its profitability. I was under the impression that Premium tanks were suppose to be on par with maxed out tanks of their tier, not completely outclass them... If you see from my comparison there is more Russian Red in most of the categories and where the JG has the advantage its usually at a lesser % and in categories that don't really matter for a TD.
I think the SU needs a nerf, probably in terms of its Hitpoint pool (about 100hp) and Traverse speed (down to 35d/s), thus it can retain the Gun but at the expense of a weaker more vulnerable hull. Or I'm sure some people would like to see the opposite, nerf the gun and keep the hull as is. A third solution could be to rework it to be a tier6 TD comparable more to a D. Max. And ofcourse the 4th solution would be to Buff the Jg to compete better against the SU... but since the SU is the new comer I feel it should be the one to be balanced better into the game.
Edited: Changed Red to Yellow since I guess its only mods for some odd reason... Why even let normal players able to select the color if its a waste of time using it lol....
Edited by RandomDying, Nov 06 2012 - 01:27.