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Caernarvon the worst tier8?


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Imprint_ThreeStones #21 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 19:04

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More like the most OP Tier 8 HT.
Practically an upgraded version of Pershing.

Mow_Mow #22 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 19:08

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View PostCarbonWard, on Nov 10 2012 - 19:04, said:

More like the most OP Tier 8 HT.
Practically an upgraded version of Pershing.

On that note I don't see the benefits of the Caernarvon over a Pershing when the Pershing is using APCR.

Pershing:
Faster
Smaller
Troll mantlet
Better penetration
Better alpha damage
Better on-the-move accuracy

Caernarvon
More hit points
Better aim time
More accuracy

??

Imprint_ThreeStones #23 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 19:34

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View PostMow_Mow, on Nov 10 2012 - 19:08, said:

On that note I don't see the benefits of the Caernarvon over a Pershing when the Pershing is using APCR.

Pershing:
Faster
Smaller
Troll mantlet
Better penetration
Better alpha damage
Better on-the-move accuracy

Caernarvon
More hit points
Better aim time
More accuracy

??
Pretty sure Caern has better dispersion on the move, both has crappy hull armor, but Carn has smaller and bouncier turret than Pershing, size of the hull does not matter when your play style is hulldown turkey shoot.

Also, Full APCR will bankrupt you fast, even when i pen every shot i still lose credit on my Pershing.

Mow_Mow #24 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 20:47

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The Pershing's turret has a black hole mantlet and the Caernarvon's does not, so I would say the Pershing has the better turret armor.

Poguemohoin #25 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 20:50

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You're comparing a medium to a heavy.  If the Caernarvon was a medium then this wouldn't be a discussion.  

Yes in a hull down this tank is OK but the damage is still too low for a tier 8 HEAVY.  Put it in par with other tier 8 heavies in terms of alpha is what I'd like to see.  Also your comment about being the most OP tier 8 heavy.  Huh?

If the Caern was up against a T34, IS-3, IS-8, etc in a hull down situation the Caernarvon would lose 9 out of 10 times (accounting for bad luck/poor skills on the enemy).


I'm also not looking forward to the Conqueror since it loses hull armor and the turret doesn't have enough armor to go hull down.  It also doesn't start dishing out some decent damage until the tier 10 gun is mounted.  

I've been trying to understand the decisions that WG made in regards to this tank, but I'm failing.  Where does this line of tanks fall in regards to the other lines?  What does it offer that the other lines don't already offer?

Mow_Mow #26 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 20:57

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The gun's damage is good enough, not every tank must be identical. The Caernarvon is able to put rounds onto a target much quicker and more accurately than its peers. It works best when targets are trapped out in the open and without cover. The quick RoF helps for permatracking enemies.

Poguemohoin #27 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 22:29

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How does permatracking make credits?  Oh right, it doesn't.  The other tier 8s have the ability to make a good amount of credits since they can actually do significant damage, Caernarvon does so little damage it becomes a credit sink.

Yes, the premium tanks can make credits, and I have one, but I would at least like to be able to do more damage than is currently possible.

Mow_Mow #28 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 23:00

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The ammunition's lower damage is compensated by the ammo costing less  - 680 compared to 1000. So 680 for 230 damage, or about 30% more cost for 30% more damage. You're looking at this too narrowly. If perma tracking would lead to destroying the enemy, then there is more profit than if the enemy got away, yes?

GoldMountain #29 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 23:06

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View PostPoguemohoin, on Nov 10 2012 - 22:29, said:

How does permatracking make credits?  Oh right, it doesn't.  The other tier 8s have the ability to make a good amount of credits since they can actually do significant damage, Caernarvon does so little damage it becomes a credit sink.

Yes, the premium tanks can make credits, and I have one, but I would at least like to be able to do more damage than is currently possible.
If you can't permatrack and damage an enemy at the same time from the sides then your not doing it right.

IMHO, The type A barrel needs a slight penetration nerf, and the type B barrel needs a light damage buff (280 damage?)
Not exactly historical as both guns had the same performance, but it is needed for balance.

Edited by GoldMountain, Nov 10 2012 - 23:08.


Mow_Mow #30 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 23:23

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The difference in stats between the Type A and Type B make it seem like that WG just wanted another time sink.

Rokuzachi #31 Posted Nov 11 2012 - 00:38

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View PostPoguemohoin, on Nov 10 2012 - 22:29, said:

How does permatracking make credits?  Oh right, it doesn't.

Incorrect. Shooting through the front or rear roadwheels and into the hull will not only break the track, but also cause damage.

This is how you perma-track a T10 heavy as it rounds the corner while simultaneously killing it.

Edited by Rokuzachi, Nov 11 2012 - 00:38.


Poguemohoin #32 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 04:16

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I have since rescinded my hatred for this tank.  I made a comment in the "Caernarvon" thread.

Once used properly this tank can do wonders (wish the damage was a bit higher still), and although the kills don't come flooding in, the experience does.

xhypnotoadx #33 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 06:48

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Victory!
Battle: Erlenberg Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:40:05 PM
Vehicle: Caernarvon
Experience received: 7,590 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 45,072
Battle Achievements: Sniper
DMG 2926

Victory!
Battle: Erlenberg Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:21:26 PM
Vehicle: Caernarvon
Experience received: 1,869
Credits received: 60,129
Battle Achievements: Sniper
DMG 4117

Victory!
Battle: Steppes Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:30:33 PM
Vehicle: Caernarvon
Experience received: 1,333
Credits received: 40,572
DMG 2357

Just thought I would post some results for the skeptics and the haters out there, included damage totals as well as xp. Only three battles I took the Caern out in today big time gap is when I was off doing clan wars stuff and/or distracted by the football game. This tank is fine in fact for me it is more than fine I love it. My win rate is still low but my xp per battle is rapidly climbing.

Konigwolfen #34 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 07:06

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how do you lose to a kv-2 with a 171 pen .34 accurate gun? seems a tad impossible.

To put it another way, learn to play the tank before you bitch about it.

View PostRokuzachi, on Nov 11 2012 - 00:38, said:

Incorrect. Shooting through the front or rear roadwheels and into the hull will not only break the track, but also cause damage.

This is how you perma-track a T10 heavy as it rounds the corner while simultaneously killing it.

I've killed many tier 7-8 heavies with this method in my Arl V39, more people need to realize how effective the strategy is, as long as you have a gun which fires fast enough. The simplest method is to bait an enemy around a corner, and track them, they cant fire back and are helpless to do much other than get shot, granted if they have nearby friends or another tank comes around the corner you'll run into issues.

Edited by Konigwolfen, Nov 12 2012 - 07:10.


VooDooPC #35 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 07:50

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View PostPoguemohoin, on Nov 12 2012 - 04:16, said:

I have since rescinded my hatred for this tank.  I made a comment in the "Caernarvon" thread.

Once used properly this tank can do wonders (wish the damage was a bit higher still), and although the kills don't come flooding in, the experience does.
That is the key to the British heavy line. You may not always get a lot of kills but as long as you're hitting targets you're going to be getting a lot of XP and credits. I've had a lot of matches with one or two kills, sometimes even no kills, but have done enough damage to be one of the top tanks on my team in XP earned.

I've had more than a few matches of someone calling me a "useless heavy" because they think I'm not doing anything, but after the match they see the score board and realize they're idiots. ;)

You fire quick enough that there's no risk to shooting a tank. In my other tanks, especially the 704 or T30 I have to really plan my shots. If there's a couple of tanks around the corner peek-a-booing I have to consider which will be the best to shoot. Can I take any of them out with my next shot? Will I have trouble penetrating any at the angle I'm at? Will I shoot one and then have the rest come charge me? Which can I damage that would benefit my team the most? With the British tanks you throw that out the window. You shoot so fast you can pretty much shoot all the tanks as they peek-a-boo. Even tanks you see for a second or go by windows or gaps in trains or buildings you can risk shooting at. Just shoot everything that moves.

Goldorakk #36 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 20:27

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The Caernarvon is assurely the worst Tier8 heavy tank of this game.
No armor
No gun

Period.

Rokuzachi #37 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 22:03

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View PostKonigwolfen, on Nov 12 2012 - 07:06, said:

how do you lose to a kv-2 with a 171 pen .34 accurate gun? seems a tad impossible.

To put it another way, learn to play the tank before you bitch about it.



I've killed many tier 7-8 heavies with this method in my Arl V39, more people need to realize how effective the strategy is, as long as you have a gun which fires fast enough. The simplest method is to bait an enemy around a corner, and track them, they cant fire back and are helpless to do much other than get shot, granted if they have nearby friends or another tank comes around the corner you'll run into issues.

It's so rewarding too!

The weaker armor and high RoF of the Brits really make this tactic seem their their 'thing'.

Vad_Varo #38 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 22:04

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I'll drive it over my T34 any day of the week. I do not think it is better than than T32, however.

VooDooPC #39 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 23:30

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View PostGoldorakk, on Nov 12 2012 - 20:27, said:

The Caernarvon is assurely the worst Tier8 heavy tank of this game.
No armor
No gun

Period.
Lets just look at the gun for a second compared to the other Tier 8 heavies:

Damage Per Minute
KV-5 - 2100
IS-6 - 2001
VK4502(P) Ausf A - 1901
T32 - 1811
Caernarvon - 1769
IS-3 - 1759
KV-4 - 1731
AMX 50 100 - 1698
Tiger II - 1680
M6A2E1 - 1616
T34 - 1600
Lowe - 1600

Penetration
T34 - 248mm
Lowe - 234mm
AMX 50 100 - 232mm
KV-4 - 227mm
Caernarvon - 226mm
IS-3 - 225mm
Tiger II - 225mm
VK4502(P) Ausf A - 200mm
M6A2E1 - 198mm
T32 - 198mm
IS-6 - 175mm
KV-5 - 167mm

Accuracy
Caernarvon - 0.32
Lowe - 0.33
Tiger II - 0.34
T34 - 0.35
AMX 50-100 - 0.36
VK4502(P) Ausf A - 0.37
KV-4 - 0.38
IS-3 - 0.40
T32 - 0.42
M6A2E1 - 0.42
KV-5 - 0.43
IS-6 - 0.46

Aim Time
Caernarvon - 1.90s
M6A2E1 - 2.29s
Tiger II - 2.30s
VK4502(P) Ausf A - 2.30s
T-32 - 2.30s
Lowe - 2.86s
KV-5 - 2.86s
AMX 50 100 - 3.00s
T-34 - 3.40s
IS-3 - 3.40s
IS-6 - 3.40s
KV-4 - 3.40s

Alpha
T-34 - 400dmg
IS-3 - 390dmg
IS-6 - 390dmg
T-32 - 320dmg
M6A2E1 - 320dmg
Lowe - 320dmg
Tiger II - 320dmg
VK4502(P) Ausf A - 320dmg
KV-4 - 320dmg
KV-4 - 300dmg
AMX 50 100 - 300dmg
Caernarvon - 230dmg


The only way anyone can say this tank has "no gun" is if they only look at the alpha damage. If you only look at the alpha damage you probably also think the gun on the ELC AMX is better than the gun on the Caernarvon.

The Caernarvon has the best DPM for its level of penetration in Tier 8, the KV-5, IS-6, T32, and VK4502 use Tier 7-8 guns and have significantly less penetration. The penetration of the Caernarvon is above average, beating most other non premium heavies. The Caernarvon has the highest ROF of the Tier 8 heavies. The Caernarvon has the highest accuracy of the Tier 8 heavies. The Caernarvon has the lowest aim time of the Tier 8 heavies.

If you can't use these things to your advantage you picked the WRONG tank, and that's your fault, not the tank's.

If I'm bored later I'll look at the armor. ;)

Goldorakk #40 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 00:22

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Lol play the tank, and then you can talk. Stats have nothing to do with the real thing.
Play it, then you can comment..........




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