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Why does germany not have a tier V heavy?


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Billymays #1 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:01

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What it says on the tin. Why doesn't it have one? :L

I mean, the Tiger would make a good one if it only had the short 88mm (a little OP maybe but it's far from "Undefeatable" in such a way), but why does germany not have any inklings of a heavy at tier V? Or even at tier VI?

Also, howsabout some potential ideas? n_n

I think the 3001P would make a good tier V german heavy considering it's real life history, being drawn up before 1940 and prototypes being out by 1941, being a machine meant to augment the panzer IV on the battlefield (A proto heavy, since germany was still focused on mobility at the time). It has the desirable armor for a tier V heavy (Bouncy, but not impenetrable) and it's only about as mobile as a T1 heavy without it's top engine. It had a listed speed of 60km/h, while only making 210 HP and weighing 33 tons.

The 88mm L/56 could work at tier V, considering it's only about on par with the russian 85mm at that tier, with minor adjustments to damage of course :D

But yeah, what do you think a good german tier V heavy could be?

AlphaTanker101 #2 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:03

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Okay, sounds good. 1+

JohnTzimisces #3 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:10

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http://en.wikipedia..../Neubaufahrzeug

Although maybe at tier 4...

wahubna #4 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:16

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The 3601 I believe eventually will be made into a heavy.

Lert #5 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:20

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Welp, you sold me on this idea. I'll buy it.

How many easy payments?

Boxhawk #6 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:28

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I like John's suggestion.

ManyNames #7 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:29

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View PostLert, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:20, said:

Welp, you sold me on this idea. I'll buy it.

How many easy payments?

But remember if you order in the next 15 minutes, you'll get an extra one for free!    Just pay for process and handing.

maxi1999 #8 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:33

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a maus with a loltractor gun

JohnTzimisces #9 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:36

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View PostBoxhawk, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:28, said:

I like John's suggestion.

I've always been a little surprised the NbFz V or VI never made it in, although the playstyle at a tier earlier than five would basically render it similar to the BDR. Not particularly mobile, not compared to the Pz III or IV by any stretch, with inferior armor, but capable of being mounted with heavier armament (the article mentions the short 7.5cm cannon: I think the pz III get this gun? Can't remember, didn't use it because it's pen and accuracy is lousy.) Whatever the name of that achtung panzer website is, that place mentioned the later iteration NbFz (deployed to Norway for whatever reason) was armed with a 10.5cm assault gun, I think. On the other hand, it's armor was like...13-20mm.

TheM0untaineer #10 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:36

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I think the VK3001H would make a great tier 5 heavy. The tiger would not. There's no way to make the tiger a tier 5 heavy without significantly nerfing it's historical aspects. And considering it was a rather famous tank in WWII, nobody would want that.

Nymous #11 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 13:38

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View PostManyNames, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:29, said:

But remember if you order in the next 15 minutes, you'll get an extra one for free!    Just pay for process and handing.
I'm inclined to side with Klink.

Billymays #12 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 14:10

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View Postwahubna, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:16, said:

The 3601 I believe eventually will be made into a heavy.
But the 3601 was a purpose built heavy design, whereas the 3001P was more 'medium' design. The 3601, at least I think, is better suited to being a tier VI heavy since it leads to the tiger, and has the same general armor scheme. Plus it was only prototyped late in 1942.

The 3001P is just a better general "Fit" for tier V, where Tier IV guns HAVE to stand a chance. And the compact, thick armored 3601 is just too much for the average tier IV. You can penetrate the 3001P with the 2pdr, you cant penetrate the 3601 with it :3

View PostLert, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:20, said:

Welp, you sold me on this idea. I'll buy it.

How many easy payments?

<3

View PostNavySnipers, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:36, said:

I think the VK3001H would make a great tier 5 heavy. The tiger would not. There's no way to make the tiger a tier 5 heavy without significantly nerfing it's historical aspects. And considering it was a rather famous tank in WWII, nobody would want that.

3001H is an outright medium tank, versus the 3001P and 3601H which were the precursors to the Tiger H and Tiger P.
There is a heavy that was based on the 3001H, but it had armor comparable to the BDR, and mounted a similarly powered suite of guns. It would technically fill the spot better, but i dont think people want a german BDR for tier V :P

The tiger would not even need to be "nerfed" to fit tier V. It's got adequate speed, armor, and armament (Minus the long 88). And the 88mm l/56 is 'almost' overpowered at tier V, being made acceptable by being similar to russian 85mm guns at tier V. So what you're losing a gun that makes the tiger capable of fighting at tier VII? It's now a tier V with a tier VI gun :D.

And when you consider that it only ever came about because of the KV1, it's really no more than an overglorified KV. With an antiaircraft gun. :D

View PostJohnTzimisces, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:36, said:

I've always been a little surprised the NbFz V or VI never made it in, although the playstyle at a tier earlier than five would basically render it similar to the BDR. Not particularly mobile, not compared to the Pz III or IV by any stretch, with inferior armor, but capable of being mounted with heavier armament (the article mentions the short 7.5cm cannon: I think the pz III get this gun? Can't remember, didn't use it because it's pen and accuracy is lousy.) Whatever the name of that achtung panzer website is, that place mentioned the later iteration NbFz (deployed to Norway for whatever reason) was armed with a 10.5cm assault gun, I think. On the other hand, it's armor was like...13-20mm.
The thing about the NbFz is that it was only ever planned to be armed with derp guns :L.
So unless you want a german heavy with the 75mm L/43 as it's top gun, i'd be weary of asking for it.

That being said, i would totally buy a tier V german heavy with a 75mm L/48 since heavies with medium guns usually get a slight buff to RoF (like the T1 and the 76mm M1A1 or the KV and the 57mm ZiS-4)

Edited by Billymays, Nov 09 2012 - 14:11.


JohnTzimisces #13 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 14:17

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Well, that's pre-war heavy tanks for you. Just look at the B1. It's a heavy tank armed with a pea shooter because it was originally intended as a kind of assault vehicle. Likewise, the NbFz doesn't seem to have been intended for the purpose of tank vs tank warfare (like the B1 which originally lacked a turret, I think, and even then it was pretty lousy for the purpose of situational awareness) so much as bringing bulletproof firepower to the field.

Edited by JohnTzimisces, Nov 09 2012 - 14:18.


Tiger_23 #14 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 14:19

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View Postmaxi1999, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:33, said:

a maus with a loltractor gun

here ya go:

Posted Image

EDIT:

This one can be a tier V :

View Postlostwingman, on Nov 08 2012 - 18:01, said:

My guess is that it would be rather large, I also don't see an issue with letting it put on the 75L48 or something.
Also lol, this image I posted on the forum like a year ago is one of the top images for VK6501 now.

Posted Image


And about the VK200X's, yea, I want to see them too. I bet they could help fill the middle tier light lines under a bumped up VK2801 (with the 10H64).
EDIT again, Production models apparently were supposed to have 100mm of armor. So maybe a tier 5 B1? lol

View PostJohnTzimisces, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:10, said:

http://en.wikipedia..../Neubaufahrzeug
Although maybe at tier 4...

NO.

Poop armor, slow, big target...must be tier III.

Tu_pro #15 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 15:09

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since the chinese gonna have a full tree of copy pasted tank, i think it is ok to put the captured KV-1 at tier 5 in the techtree (not as a premium but a researchable tank )

Boxhawk #16 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 16:06

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View PostJohnTzimisces, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:36, said:

I've always been a little surprised the NbFz V or VI never made it in, although the playstyle at a tier earlier than five would basically render it similar to the BDR. Not particularly mobile, not compared to the Pz III or IV by any stretch, with inferior armor, but capable of being mounted with heavier armament (the article mentions the short 7.5cm cannon: I think the pz III get this gun? Can't remember, didn't use it because it's pen and accuracy is lousy.) Whatever the name of that achtung panzer website is, that place mentioned the later iteration NbFz (deployed to Norway for whatever reason) was armed with a 10.5cm assault gun, I think. On the other hand, it's armor was like...13-20mm.

Well the fact that they actually made these tanks should leap it ahead of all the tanks that are in the game that were only drawn up on a napkin.

Billymays #17 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 20:41

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View PostJohnTzimisces, on Nov 09 2012 - 14:17, said:

Well, that's pre-war heavy tanks for you. Just look at the B1. It's a heavy tank armed with a pea shooter because it was originally intended as a kind of assault vehicle. Likewise, the NbFz doesn't seem to have been intended for the purpose of tank vs tank warfare (like the B1 which originally lacked a turret, I think, and even then it was pretty lousy for the purpose of situational awareness) so much as bringing bulletproof firepower to the field.

The thing about the B1 is that the 47mm gun in it's turret is specifically designed for facing armor, top gun being based off of a 47mm AT gun, and the others being dedicated tank guns. So you cant really compare the NbFz to the B1.

Oh yeah and the VK6501 was the tank i was thinking of. Ty Tiger_23 n_n

Halsinki #18 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 21:35

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View PostLert, on Nov 09 2012 - 13:20, said:

Welp, you sold me on this idea. I'll buy it.

How many easy payments?

If you order in the next 30 minutes you will receive a free 44%er as an indentured servant bound to do your bidding.

Billymays #19 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 21:37

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View PostHalsinki, on Nov 09 2012 - 21:35, said:

If you order in the next 30 minutes you will receive a free 44%er as an indentured servant bound to do your bidding.

That cant possibly be. I'm already lert's butt-buddy ;D

DR_McNinja #20 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 17:40

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View PostTu_pro, on Nov 09 2012 - 15:09, said:

since the chinese gonna have a full tree of copy pasted tank, i think it is ok to put the captured KV-1 at tier 5 in the techtree (not as a premium but a researchable tank )
it could work as a prem but because its from another nation there's not really anything it could research into that was german.




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