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Why does germany not have a tier V heavy?


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KnightFandragon #181 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 22:44

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View Postreole5841, on Nov 13 2012 - 21:39, said:

or you can just start your crew out at 100 percent in the LOLtaktor and keep retraining them to 100 percent.

But who wants to spend that kinda gold on tanks that low? Your out of the first 2 tiers within 20 games.....unless you just plain utterly suck at tanks.

Arrowfoot #182 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 00:15

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View PostAir_0374, on Nov 13 2012 - 20:24, said:

Yeah, I'm just so butthurt about posting here. Oh noes, my precious wasted time.

Tell me why the current tech tree would benefit from a heavy at tier 5, maybe you'll have an actual argument other than "have a heavy for the sake of having a heavy". Doubt it though...

Oh I didnt notice, you are an almighty beta tester, that means you know all and we the unwashed masses should be greatful that you bothered to stop by and cast an insult our way! SO mr Beta tester, why does any tec tree benefit from having a tier 5 and 6 heavy. I mean WoT went so fair out of their way to give them to some nations that they clearly must have some beneffet. Is it maybe that every other then the German can beneffet from them. Or could it be that infact the German tree would benefit from haveing them and THATS why they Russains wont let them in.

Legiondude #183 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 00:16

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View PostArrowfoot, on Nov 14 2012 - 00:15, said:

Oh I didnt notice, you are an almighty beta tester, that means you know all and we the unwashed masses should be greatful that you bothered to stop by and cast an insult our way! SO mr Beta tester, why does any tec tree benefit from having a tier 5 and 6 heavy. I mean WoT went so fair out of their way to give them to some nations that they clearly must have some beneffet. Is it maybe that every other then the German can beneffet from them. Or could it be that infact the German tree would benefit from haveing them and THATS why they Russains wont let them in.
You're not answering any of the questions we're asking, you're just attacking anyone who opposes you

Arrowfoot #184 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 00:20

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View PostLegiondude, on Nov 14 2012 - 00:16, said:

You're not answering any of the questions we're asking, you're just attacking anyone who opposes you

what is there to answer EVERY ONE has tier 5 and 6 tanks. that is every one but ONE!. That is a fact. THeir are many posible tanks that could be used , posted earlier. If it was a few did not have them then fine that country had nothing that could fit. But in this game the countries that had no heavies to speak of, have them, and some where quite a reach to get. But German stands alone with out them. SO WHAT makes that right!

Ferrumkit #185 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 00:26

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View PostArrowfoot, on Nov 13 2012 - 16:02, said:

EARTH CALLING WHO EVER YOU ARE, Take your funny eyed ponies and go back into the closet. Even I know that the Tiger 1 could not be a tier 5 heavy in this game. in fact I said it should be tier 6. That beind siad,. I dont care what they make into the Tier 5 heavy as long as they finaly do it. YOu and your little ponies can rest in peace in your closet as WOT will make sure that what ever they give Germany for a tier 5 heavy, if they ever do Will be nerfed enough so it wont be a real chalange to and Russian, Chinesse or US tank!

In closet would imply denial of sorts, and I suppose progress is made its nolonger 'RUSSIAN BIAS' its now 'MULTINATIONAL BIAS'.

View PostArrowfoot, on Nov 13 2012 - 18:44, said:

If all nations do not need a similar lay out why does EVERY NATION in the game EXCEPT GERMANY get a tier 5 and 6 heavy. If the US FRENCH AND Brits all had no Tier 5 or 6 heavy I could live with that, as none of them realy had heavies, or it the Brits went tier 5 (Churchhill) then skipped a few tiers This is however not the case. So if only one nation is left out one must ask WHY?

Because on the inception of the game I assume that they hardly expected to last as long as they have much less gain the popularity they have. And you assume based on populization that none of those nations developed heavy armor [Britain being among the first pioneers OF heavy tanks.] and Franch have the LARGEST armored force in that era. Uh-huh clearly. You need to get a little outside perspective because you're opinion is SO FAR in whatever direction, you refuse to acknowledge the reasons presented, then further you derail and then moan about off-topic.

View PostKoschka, on Nov 13 2012 - 21:14, said:

Getting a heavy at tier 5 and 6 would help a lot for training up crews for higher tier heavies. By the time you worked up from tier 5 to tier 7 the current tiger, the crew would be 100% and likely have at least one perk. That would help a lot for the early grinding to get the better modules for the higher tiers.

Yes and no. I'm not as familiar with the newer EXP model for training [My primary tree was in 6-7 back when starting with a freshcrew retrained to 75% was better than the retrain penalty.] SO potentially it would help but not sure how much, assumably you might hit 1 skill by the time the VK gets the Tiger unlocked [Hard to say because the 3601 has so much in the way of potential research so Reasearch time + money grind time.] Honestly by the T29 I still needed to pull out a 75% training to get rolling, but after that the EXP cost and Money cost dragged it along enough to garuntee hitting 100%

Edit: Asto you hissyfit, the German tree Has THE MOST tanks in game, no exceptions. Edit 2: Also if I recall Germans got the First Heavy purchaseable: B2 [M6E2A1 is barred as it was a pre-purchase offer] Germans also get the most active premiums in game to-date.

It was the first to gain 2 heavy trees, maybe I should ask why the US only has 1 Heavy tree? after all the entire Porche tree never happened. See how stupid that argument sounds?

Edited by Ferrumkit, Nov 14 2012 - 00:35.


Legiondude #186 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 00:37

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View PostFerrumkit, on Nov 14 2012 - 00:26, said:

Because on the inception of the game I assume that they hardly expected to last as long as they have much less gain the popularity they have. And you assume based on populization that none of those nations developed heavy armor [Britain being among the first pioneers OF heavy tanks.] and Franch have the LARGEST armored force in that era. Uh-huh clearly. You need to get a little outside perspective because you're opinion is SO FAR in whatever direction, you refuse to acknowledge the reasons presented, then further you derail and then moan about off-topic.
Plus one has to consider German doctrine with the Panzerwaffe, where the Panzer IV was employed as their "heavy tank" even if they had "bigger, tougher, more deadly" ideas for a "heavy" tank(Grosstraktor, Neubaufahrzeug, Durchbruchwagen, VK6501), it was only after the arrival of the Tiger did they shift the Panzer IV into the Panzer III's throne of medium main battle tank and that was due more to changing battlefield conditions

Ferrumkit #187 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 01:31

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View PostLegiondude, on Nov 14 2012 - 00:37, said:

Plus one has to consider German doctrine with the Panzerwaffe, where the Panzer IV was employed as their "heavy tank" even if they had "bigger, tougher, more deadly" ideas for a "heavy" tank(Grosstraktor, Neubaufahrzeug, Durchbruchwagen, VK6501), it was only after the arrival of the Tiger did they shift the Panzer IV into the Panzer III's throne of medium main battle tank and that was due more to changing battlefield conditions
...Hehe I said Franch .... ANYWAY yes, it was employed in that role because Tankettes were still the most common armored resistance encountered [Poland] and then the Cruiser tanks in Africa, though it wasn't until the lkes of the Lee and the Matilda did they reassess the combat ability of the Pzkw IV, in that respecct it was in service for a good while concidering the lack of implimentation of sloping to the chassis

Edit: On a side note they especially reassessed ALL their armor options when they encountered the T-34 because the sloping was resistant to so many AT weapons.

Edited by Ferrumkit, Nov 14 2012 - 01:32.


Arrowfoot #188 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 20:14

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This topic is simple.

1. Are the Germans the only ones with out Tier 5 and 6 heavies? YES
2. Are there heavy tanks that could be use to fill that void? YES
3. Could the Devs put the same effort into getting Tier 5 and 6 heavies for the German as they did for the High tier French? YES
4. In light of that is it clear that Devs have no plans to fix this? YES
5. In light of the facts is there a clear anti-German bais? YES
THE END

Legiondude #189 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 22:17

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View PostArrowfoot, on Nov 14 2012 - 20:14, said:

This topic is simple.

1. Are the Germans the only ones with out Tier 5 and 6 heavies? YES
2. Are there heavy tanks that could be use to fill that void? YES
3. Could the Devs put the same effort into getting Tier 5 and 6 heavies for the German as they did for the High tier French? YES
These are all obvious. Though finding end tiers for a new French tree would probably be a little bit more necessary than filling in a tank or two on the most interconnected tree in WoT

Quote

4. In light of that is it clear that Devs have no plans to fix this? YES
You don't know that. Even if you did get a clear quote from the devs saying they had no plans for it, you STILL can't prove they have a malicious anti-German intent just from that

Ferrumkit #190 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 23:13

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Devs also said no cannon would exceed the 155 L7 on the T30, also said there was not going to be T10 Meds/TDs, also said no tank would pass 1960. And I'm sure a whole SLEW of other game play balance changes they said 'wouldnt happen' So unless you have a crystal ball that is precise in telling the future [in which case go capitalize on the stock market] I suggest you actually step back and look at the german tree and realise its one of the most forgiving tech trees with the most reliable armor and gun combinations.

Darth_Conrad #191 Posted Nov 14 2012 - 23:28

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View PostArrowfoot, on Nov 14 2012 - 20:14, said:

This topic is simple.

1. Are the Germans the only ones with out Tier 5 and 6 heavies? YES
2. Are there heavy tanks that could be use to fill that void? YES
3. Could the Devs put the same effort into getting Tier 5 and 6 heavies for the German as they did for the High tier French? YES
4. In light of that is it clear that Devs have no plans to fix this? YES
5. In light of the facts is there a clear anti-German bais? YES
THE END

You're claiming anti-German bias because the German tech tree doesn't have a tier 5 heavy tank?  Based on that logic there must also be an anti-Chinese bias because they won't have a tier 5 heavy tank!  Or a pro-British bias because that tree gets a medium tank at tier 1.  Or an anti-American bias because there are only 7 American SPGs!

That logic is ridiculous.  You have no idea what the Devs have planned for the future.  You only know what they tell you.  Like I've said before the tier 6 German tank is already in game.  The VK 3601(H) was labeled as a medium tank because play testing showed that playing it was more like a medium tank then any comparable heavy tank at the time.  Times have changed though and there are heavy tanks that are much more medium like such as the AMX 50 line.  

Adding a German tier 5 heavy tank is a good idea but something that the devs might not have considered before because they have been focused on adding other nations.  Have you bothered posing the question in the Q&A thread or on Overlord's Blog politely?  Or maybe you could have tried to foster actual discussion here about the possibilities.  Instead you decided to accuse Wargaming of bias.  What are the chances they'll listen to you now?  The thing is the reason a tier 5 German heavy tank or any tank should be added isn't because there isn't one.  Tanks should be added because they're interesting, unique or important.

Herr_Klug #192 Posted Nov 16 2012 - 16:59

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The old original tree had a nice progression that for the most part fit development and evolution of German tanks pre-war and during the war (there was only two nations to balance). WoT broke big and the devs have constantly been adding new content (like it or not). They have restructured the German tree how many times now with additions? Maybe in time we will see a tier 5 German heavy ... but for the time being relax. We've heard about an additional med /TD line and at some point two more SPG's that are being worked on. This plus everything else that is being worked on, a tier 5 Heavy for Germany is the least of the devs problem at the moment.

Edited by Herr_Klug, Nov 16 2012 - 17:01.


Billymays #193 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 00:07

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View PostArrowfoot, on Nov 14 2012 - 20:14, said:

This topic is simple.

1. Are the Germans the only ones with out Tier 5 and 6 heavies? YES
2. Are there heavy tanks that could be use to fill that void? YES
3. Could the Devs put the same effort into getting Tier 5 and 6 heavies for the German as they did for the High tier French? YES
4. In light of that is it clear that Devs have no plans to fix this? YES
5. In light of the facts is there a clear anti-German bais? YES
THE END

Every one except for number 5 was right lol.

Ferrumkit #194 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 00:31

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View PostBillymays, on Nov 17 2012 - 00:07, said:

Every one except for number 5 was right lol.
I would say 4 and 5 because they are both opinionated comments, much like when I hear the wails of people saying 'Politician A is against the working man' or 'Organization B is good because they're cheap' Meanwhile the fact could be 'Politician A is working towards creating some workers fair' or 'Organization B is actually price gouging and the 'sale items' look that much cheaper ... but your other products purchased had enough extra tacked on to double the profit they made'

This silly hissy fit over Tier 5/6 heavy tank isn't constructive save for some indivuduals that ALREADY  proposed additional heavies BUT you also take for granted the minor face that in the event the additional tanks blow, you'll all blow your lids because they gave you potentially 'THE WORST TANK IN THE GAME' despite all the clamoring to have it added

ZerglingEXP397 #195 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 08:48

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I. Cannot fucking Fathom. How fucking retarded this idea is, to make the fucking Tiger, The deadliest tank of WORLD WAR FUCKING II, a tier 5 tank. Are you completely, fucking retarded!?!?!?!?!?

You mean to tell me, that in the actual WWII, which World of Tanks is based on, and keeps to being as realistic as possible, while trying to maintain balance- Thus making the Tiger not as powerful as it was in the war, that a M4 Sherman, or a KV-1 can kill a Tiger one on one?

Again, I ask- Are you completely, and utterly fucking STUUUUPID!?

IT TOOK 7 SHERMANS TO TAKE DOWN ONE FUCKING TIGER. AND EVEN THEN, THEY COULD BARELY DO THE JOB.
KV-1'S WERE TOO FUCKING SLOW TO KILL THE TIGER.

The only Caliber that could penetrate and put up an actual fight, was the 90mm used by the Americans, and the 17 pounder used by the British. Yes, the 85 mm could penetrate a Tigers front armor. But again, the tanks were fucking slow until late in the war.

Use your fucking facts before even SUGGESTING SOMETHING THIS FUCKING RETARDED.

Tiger as a tier 5. WHAT. THE. FUCK!? IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

Ferrumkit #196 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 09:26

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View PostZergy12, on Nov 17 2012 - 08:48, said:

*snip*

I appreciate your zeal but please get a few things right, Even the Crumby M3 75mm [yes, the short dinky one] Could engage a Tiger at 500m. The tiger was by design a relic and propaganda machine, and it was truely effective in function and show, but the design was aged. The main issue of the Allies engagements was a shortage of 'HVAP' ammunition that TD battalions did receive and then on top of that Tankers were tought TD tactics on the fly to help them in armor engagements.

Tiger was a good piece, no doubt, but by design logic the Panther and KT were superior, though had mechanical issues aswell

RolandVH #197 Posted Nov 18 2012 - 04:36

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View PostBillymays, on Nov 11 2012 - 06:37, said:

The tiger already fits in tier V so long as the long 88 is taken away, and the 'non tiger" top engine as well.
This isn't anything except what stupid is.

Billymays #198 Posted Nov 18 2012 - 18:31

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View PostRolandVH, on Nov 18 2012 - 04:36, said:

This isn't anything except what stupid is.

Nah, you're just a jerk who is incapable of thinking on a 'higher plane" like i do.


I'm just yankin yer chain :P

Kankou #199 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 13:59

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To be blunt: The mark of a heavy is just that, a mark. Do we really need a heavy?




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