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TlGERACE #21 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:27

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View Post123zorn, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:05, said:


Gold rounds have always, ALWAYS been equally available to ALL.



Not at all true , Gold rounds where never EVER been equally available to ALL but now they are thanks to this feature , I tell you this once more " the time of real money vs skill is over " the time for real equal fire power is here for all tankers

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Tiger Ace

Soviet_Union #22 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:29

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still no t-35 D:

raja0 #23 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:34

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Need more Equip...

123zorn #24 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:42

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View PostMuffinC4kes, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:24, said:

Everyone talks too much about premium rounds. I have never had a problem with it because there is only a few extra points on penetration but the damage is still the same. Who cares who uses them, who cares if you get hit with them. Do more damage to the other tank with better aimed shots and you won't have to worry about it.

I fail to see how a 20% increase in pen is a 'few extra points', for many rounds it is this or more in the case of derp guns.  In many instances it means 0% chance of inflicting damage vs. a near 100% chance of inflicting damage.  This is a pretty big spread, nothing else has a spead like this in the game.  Only angle really matters now as bounce is the new armor.

If you drove only tanks that can be regularly penned, then congrats as you have just benefitted from this move.  If you drive some tanks that depend upon armor thickness for some of their benefit, then those tanks have just been substantially nerfed.

123zorn #25 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:49

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View PostTlGERACE, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:27, said:

Not at all true , Gold rounds where never EVER been equally available to ALL but now they are thanks to this feature , I tell you this once more " the time of real money vs skill is over " the time for real equal fire power is here for all tankers

It is pretty clear that they have ALWAYS been AVAILABLE to ALL.  Unless you somehow believe that Porsches/Ferraris/Zondas should be free to all (not that gold rounds are the equivalent).  All things in life are choices, if a choice is made then gold rounds were available.  Now its a no brainer, but is this a better game experience? No, it is not a better game experience.  It is a more arcade-like game experience which is demeaning to the player base.

Gold is not a clear game winner, but it can change a loss into a win.  I would support the REMOVAL of gold rounds entirely.  I want gold to be used LESS not MORE.  Gold use in every single pub is just plain dumbing this game down.

1SLUGGO1 #26 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:50

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View PostZamolxet, on Nov 13 2012 - 13:10, said:

he says no to all question or is it me?
It's just you.  Nice to hear the tutorial and mouse-over xp requirements coming back.

Kilpanic #27 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:53

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Why is the guy doing Veider's translation doing a fake 'cowboy' accent?

1SLUGGO1 #28 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 15:54

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View Post123zorn, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:49, said:

It is pretty clear that they have ALWAYS been AVAILABLE to ALL.  Unless you somehow believe that Porsches/Ferraris/Zondas should be free to all (not that gold rounds are the equivalent).  All things in life are choices, if a choice is made then gold rounds were available.  Now its a no brainer, but is this a better game experience? No, it is not a better game experience.  It is a more arcade-like game experience which is demeaning to the player base.

Gold is not a clear game winner, but it can change a loss into a win.  I would support the REMOVAL of gold rounds entirely.  I want gold to be used LESS not MORE.  Gold use in every single pub is just plain dumbing this game down.

Something being available, and something being EQUALLY available, is not the same thing, from an economy point-of-view.  In fact, the reason for gold rounds being slightly better, at a cost of gold, was to purposely make them not as available as normal rounds.  Same with the much higher cost over regular ap and he now.  

If they were just as available, the cost and function would be the same, and then what would be the point?

TlGERACE #29 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:00

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View Post123zorn, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:49, said:


Gold is not a clear game winner, but it can change a loss into a win.

This is exactly what i mean , I will explain in short

Before in medium companies :

Team A - KV1S with +500% crew skill using normal rounds vs Team B - KV1S with 50% crew skill using gold rounds = eminent defeat for team A

Now in medium companies :

Team A and Team B are using Gold rounds i will ask you who do you think will win

Best regards

Tiger Ace

123zorn #30 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:18

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View PostTlGERACE, on Nov 13 2012 - 16:00, said:

This is exactly what i mean , I will explain in short

Before in medium companies :

Team A - KV1S with +500% crew skill using normal rounds vs Team B - KV1S with 50% crew skill using gold rounds = eminent defeat for team A

Now in medium companies :

Team A and Team B are using Gold rounds i will ask you who do you think will win

Best regards

Tiger Ace

No, I would bet on the experienced KV-1S.  The 50% crewed one will miss and gold does nothing for misses.

Now lets take a Maus in a game with 2 tier 8s, before gold rounds were cheap the Maus would win this, now the Maus loses.  Why because tier 8s can now regularly pen the frontal armor of a Maus.  This cheapens the game and nerfs those tanks that depend upon armor thickness as a primary advantage.

123zorn #31 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:25

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View Post1SLUGGO1, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:54, said:

Something being available, and something being EQUALLY available, is not the same thing, from an economy point-of-view.  In fact, the reason for gold rounds being slightly better, at a cost of gold, was to purposely make them not as available as normal rounds.  Same with the much higher cost over regular ap and he now.  

If they were just as available, the cost and function would be the same, and then what would be the point?

You are assuming that gold was used all the time prior to 8.1, this is not true in pub games.  Before 8.1 the use of gold in pubs was incredibly rare.  Sure a very, very few were able to spend the mound of cash to gain an advantage, but it was not a regular occurence.  Now a huge number of players, particularly those with premium accounts and premium tanks, are able to shoot gold all the time.  So sure, this is more cheaply available (if this is the sole goal, then lets just make gold rounds totally free) in that a lot more players are using it.  But, it does not alter the fact they ALL had EQUAL ACCESS to gold rounds previously and this access was rarely used in pubs.  Now a much greater number of players have CHEAP access and they are being use all the time.  This cheapens the game immensely.

Why are you arguing for INCREASED use of gold rounds?  It is not good for the game to do so.

Edited by 123zorn, Nov 13 2012 - 16:26.


NuclearBanane #32 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:25

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View PostHookshot, on Nov 13 2012 - 13:30, said:

Premium ammo for silver = good. An ammo rack full of premium ammo = bad. Please implement a feature limiting the number of premium shells a vehicle can carry. The use of premium ammo really needs to be an important decision, not a spamable I win button for every type 59 (for example) in the game.

Honestly with my premium tanks I don't see its big as an unbalancer like you said. It is true that a large amountn of kv5 owners run some for fun because the kv5 is ridiculously OP in the right hands ( it's not going to win the match but it'll be a major pain ). Moving away from the kv5 point, running acpr does make a lot of credits. It does help raise the amount of damage you do which helps your credit output. However my point is that it isn't a method that is effective for grinding credits but is a while lot of fun.It might even help crew training.My second point is that it won't win every match for you, if it is you're suffering from the side effects of no need to aim at weak spots. I do like APCR in the 59 but it's not a game changerThis is based on my experience with premium an premium ammo, IMHO

das_nooblet #33 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:33

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View Postpipecutter, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:00, said:

Sure wish these guys could give some kind of time line with things. It's always soon but never like will be introduced in 8.2 or 8.3, just soon.
It's so they don't have to deal with people complaining if they have to overrun a deadline. Common method used by many game developers.

View PostKilpanic, on Nov 13 2012 - 15:53, said:

Why is the guy doing Veider's translation doing a fake 'cowboy' accent?
It's the two different commentators they have for their vids. They're making it seem more like an actual conversation than one person answering himself.

Mieter #34 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:39

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My 2 cents:

1. Gold ammo mania: we have a saying in Hungary, that translates as "Every miracle lasts for 3 days". The hype with the Gold rounds will eventually cease as people run out of silver if they keep loading their ammo racks with premium shells only. I have bought premium ammo of course, but only 5-10, depending on the tank. They are really good emergency supplies when I'm ending up right in front of a big bad heavy tank.
2. I call BS on the "scout limit". I rarely see people whining about 'scouts', but most players are whining about arties (I don't, I personally have never been in a battle where there were more than 5 arties on one side). Light tanks blow up fast, and let's face it, they are not as hard to hit as the WG team thinks they are. Plus, there is the golden rule: "Not every light tank is a scout, but every arty is an arty."
3. Since the implementation of the new battle reports, I always wondered about what critical modules I've shot out on a tank,did I kill any of his crewmembrs, etc. It's easy to implement, too: when you roll over the "critical damage" icon in the battle report, it will list everything you did in a pop-up window (where it only says the number of the critical damage now), like radio, commander, engine, etc. Let the players decide what information they want to get. There's no such state of mind as "over-informed", but under-informed does exist. If somebody does not care, he/she will just click on the "Close" button ASAP.

Edited by Mieter, Nov 13 2012 - 16:43.


Hartziel #35 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:51

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View PostCommando_Nightmare, on Nov 13 2012 - 13:13, said:

He is answering the question, but I don't think he is only saying no. Remember one of WarGaming main job is to introduce new features, and make the game more fun. I think I said a random in the second sentence, don't know why.

Remember, the only sense of WG is to make money, by the way taken out of YOUR pocket for some virtual buum buum makers... fun ? sorry.. they have fun, if they see that the amount of payers raises, but not interested in YOUR fun

WarStore #36 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:52

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DId he mention a hard cap on arty?

Jedi_Jack #37 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 16:55

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IMHO, everyone is missing the bigger picture here.  I have eleven premium tanks.  When this feature came about I went and put gold rounds on them as well as my T-92 and M40/43.  I went from 1.8 million credits to just a couple hundred thousand.  Now, I don't know about you but that is a huge expense and with the huge repair bill on arty, unless you win and have enormous damage inflicted you will lose money.  Since the newness has worn off I take into account my style of play and determine how many shells I will need.  I have averaged it to about 10 gold rounds per battle in my premium tanks only and I only do that when I am doing my doubles.  Other than that I do not use gold rounds due to the fact that I don't like spending the credits (granted I have made back my millions of credits already) but I don't like being that low and will have to have 12 million for two more Tier X's.  

To address the issue of premium ammo on premium tanks further.  We have all been in battles where suddenly you look and your team is down to just 3-4 tanks and you are steamrolled.  The result is that you are not going to make hardly any coin to replenish what you shot off. and that my friends is how having gold rounds on all your tanks is not always profitable.

And who knows, none of this might make any sense so just get on the battlefield so I can whoop on you.

Catatonick #38 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 17:04

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The thing with premium ammo is that it really hinders advancement even on a premium account.  I mean if you have a 40k credit game and take a 30k credit hit for ammo you definitely won't make it to the next tier as easily as you would just using standard AP rounds and I think that will be one thing that will really help balance things out in the end.

The way I see premium ammo right now is that, as the video said, it helps new teams get started in clan wars or tournaments and it helps make tank companies more competitive.  I don't see it has a huge gold hit for them and the constant adding of new tanks and increased premium tank production will increase their income just fine.  In fact people running premium ammo more often could cause them to purchase a premium account to make up some of the difference.  Another thing is premium ammo makes some really bad tank grinds actually enjoyable or at least tolerable even with the stock tank.  It is a great way to help ease the upgrade process.

ColdWar82 #39 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 17:06

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View PostWarStore, on Nov 13 2012 - 16:52, said:

DId he mention a hard cap on arty?
What I heard was that they are working on balancing the arty, just as they are going to balance scouts.
The most out of balance arty I have seen is +/- 1 per side, and then the tiers seem to balance it.

Now having 7 arty on each side seems to be out of balance to me, perhaps they see it as well.  (or perhaps not).

Fubar_53 #40 Posted Nov 13 2012 - 17:15

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View PostF0R_M0T43R_RU55IA, on Nov 13 2012 - 13:37, said:



A Premium tank in the hands of a capable tanker can load 100% ammo and STILL make credits.  Type 59, KV-5, Super Pershing & IS-6 all have one thing in common ... less than stellar penetration with Standard ammunition.  That is the price you paid to drive those tanks.  Now, with Premium ammo available for credits, these tanks can overcome that singular weakness and still turn a profit.  I think THIS is the biggest variable in the entire equation.

Not there only weakness, just one among several. I enjoyed the video and agree there has been an overeaction on gold ammo for silver.